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I'm headed to Zimbabwe in Sept. for buffalo & hippo, & would love to use my 9.3X74R - I've read many stories here on AR about others doing this - but my PH has instructed me to bring at least a .375 caliber rifle since this is the minimum caliber allowed there. Who has done this, and how did your PH handle using less than a .375 ? ____________________________ .470 & 9.3X74R Chapuis' Tikka O/U 9.3X74R Searcy Classics 450/.400 3" & .577 C&H .375 2 1/2" Krieghoff .500 NE Member Dallas Safari Club | ||
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Frank, I have not and I am sure others will chime in with experience. I THINK that the min requirement is not necessarily the caliber, and Ganyana has posted to this effect in the past (“To meet the letter of the law in Zim you need 2405fps with a 286grn bullet” – but I am not sure if this is in all areas). I had also read the requirements for the 2010 hunts in the National Park Auction areas, and the requirement was not the caliber: From a PH's perspective, what one would not want to happen is to have a client get squashed/chomped and have it come out that he was not meeting the minimums, even if this had no bearing. Either that, or he shoots a .375 and is hoping for some left-overs!  | |||
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The 9.3X74R is legal in Zimbabwe for the type A animals, though it is minimum for those. The cats can be taken with just about anything larger than 7MM. ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Mac: What are the type A animals ? ____________________________ .470 & 9.3X74R Chapuis' Tikka O/U 9.3X74R Searcy Classics 450/.400 3" & .577 C&H .375 2 1/2" Krieghoff .500 NE Member Dallas Safari Club | |||
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Actually the 9,3x74r is not legal for buffalo in Zim. Believe me I am sure it is used all the time and I am sure most PHa would not object and that nobody in Parks would even know. But 5.3 KJ equals 3909 ft lbs and to generate that with a 286 grn bullet you need 2482 fps of MV and the 9,3x74r is not capable of that. Most factory 9,3x62 does not achieve that either. For example Norma factory ammo is rated at 2428. The nominal velocity for factory 9,3x62 is generally less than 2450. Again, I am sure nobody in parks has ever checked or would ever even question it. But you can run the match calcs yourself and see. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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My 286 Woodleigh Softs and Solids go @2225fps from my 9,3 Chapuis. I killed my biggest cape buff with one frontal chest shot, with a Soft. I killed a cow elephant at 5 yards, side brain shot, with a solid. I got comlete penetration. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Tony, I was wondering how long it would take you to come to the defense of your beloved Chapuis 9.3!!! | |||
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Tony, I am calling Zim and gonna snitch you off Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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The 9.3x74R is too light for buffalo, as far as I'm concerned. But then again, so's the .375. Although I'd use either, in a pinch! More to the point, I am pretty sure that the energy levels of the 9.3s (except for the 9.3x64) are problematic from a strictly legal perspective (not that anyone will care, of course). Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Actually the minimum muzzel energy was droped to 5000j in 2001...interesting to note that parks still quote the old regulations!! (but that figures). It is an interesting 'technicallity'...the 232grn loading makes the minimum energy...would I use it- NO! would I be happy with a client using 286grn swifts/woodleighs to shoot a buff- Yup! This came up quite seriously a couple of years back when Craig Boddington wanted to use a 9,3x66 SAKO (.370 Federal I think you call it in the states)...to protect himself from critisim we had to dig out chapter and verse of the regulations and arrange an offical letter stating that the cartridge was legal. the 9,3x74 isn't up to a hot loaded 9,3x62 or 9x3x66 Sako but , well- thats just a technicallity | |||
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Ganyana, Thank you for the update...I have never seen the 2001 change to 5000j referenced before. But you all know what this means now don't you... The 45-70 pushing a 300 grn bullet at 2355 out of a Ruger Number 1 is now legal for Cape Buffalo    Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I thought you were always saying that the rules had an exception for the 9.3x62 (??????) Or was that a made-up exception for all those old 9.3x62's laying around? 5.3 kJ is about 3911 ft-lb and 5 kJ is but 3688 ft-lb. One can handload either the x62 or the x74R to that level, but Hornady factory is only 3536 ft-lb. Deer rifles are deer rifles, not buffalo rifles. A fifteen hundred pound buff is coming to clean your clock. Yeah, bring on the 9.3x74R. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Will, I put the wheels in motion to lower the ME figures for class A game ( ele, buff and hippo) as soon as they were introduced (1993). Prior to that the legal minimum was 9,3mm and 3500ft lbs energy...but When the new regs were published they banned handgun hunting and upped the minimum energy.... When Graham Nott retired in 1995, I was able to move things forward, but the wheels of legislation move very slowly in Africa! Most parks guys simply still use the Parks & Wildlife general Regulations (SI 262 of 1993) ...and forget about the subsiquent amendments ...bowhunting...handgun and black powder hunting, reduction of ME for class A game.... | |||
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your paying a lot of money for this trip and the PH why would you not do what he ask's?? | |||
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(A)I will take a larger bore rifle. (B)This PH really doesn't want a client using a SXS rifle without a scope - that's just his preference. (C)I'm paying for the hunt, & was just inquiring about others' experiences since I have a 9.3X74R that I've never had an opportunity to use on DG. ____________________________ .470 & 9.3X74R Chapuis' Tikka O/U 9.3X74R Searcy Classics 450/.400 3" & .577 C&H .375 2 1/2" Krieghoff .500 NE Member Dallas Safari Club | |||
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Frank read the quote from BillC's post below!
....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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As far as my limited experience goes I really don't think that many in ZIM give a flip. When I was in camp last year a father and son team showed up to hunt Buff the Father had a Winchester Lever gun in .405 Win and the Son was packing a single shot in 45-70......... Ther PH's didn't seem to mind.... . | |||
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It sounds very unusual that a zim PH would not accept a 9.3 for a clients rifle.  | |||
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Just ask him if this hunt is a "freebie" or if he expects you to shell out a lot, make that a L-O-T of money for it. If there is money involved just tell him to bring something big and you will hunt with your 9,3x74R. You can also let him know that if it is a problem you will be willing to reschedule the hunt with some other PH and to refund your deposit. regards, Rich DRSS Searcy .470 NE and Chapuis 9,3x74R so far | |||
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Who's the PH? it is very simple if he is a member of the association to copy him in on the new regs....If he is not a member, | |||
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Is it that the PH is tired of clients wounding animals with little guns? ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Naa- you get a bigger tip for sorting it out  | |||
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I am still confused. Is the 9.3X74R legal to shoot buff, ele, & hippo with in Zim or not??? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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100% Maybe!  | |||
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Absolutely. Boring as hell around here. We need some blood and gore stories. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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I took a Chapuis 9.3X74R to Zim last September. I killed 2 buffalo with my rifle. I used Woodleigh 286 grain PPSP and solids @ 2300 fps. Both were approx 50 yards away. The first one was shot broadside and bullet entered right above the heart. He did not go far and we were on him minutes. He was laying down when we got to him and very sick. I shot him again with a solid. Second buffalo was shot broadside with a soft. Two more solids in the other shoulder. We ran forward and he was facing me and I put another solid at the base of his neck and shoulder at which point he collapsed and died. I used a scope with this rifle. My PH (Nixon Dzingai) was unfamiliar with this round but was happy with the results. Whether or not it met the absolute legal requirements I am unsure. However on this trip it worked for me. I hunt, not to kill, but in order not to have played golf.... DRSS | |||
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The above kinda scares me. Not everyone is a gun nut, but I would like to think any PH would know something about the 9,3. In any case, was there not a country that actually had a technical exception for the 9,3....essentially stating....."these are our energy requirements for DG, unless you are shooting a 9,3 in which case you are cool"? | |||
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------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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To clarify, he was familiar with a 9,3 X 62 and I told him that they were ballistic twins. He had no problems with me taking a buffalo with that cartridge but he did make it known he preferred a heavier caliber/cartridge. Having shot only two buffalo in my life certainly makes me no expert. My take is that a .366 diameter bullet in the right place kills them handily but it is not a stopping caliber in case of a problem. But then, does not a 375 H&H mostly fall in that same category? I hunt, not to kill, but in order not to have played golf.... DRSS | |||
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I think you should listen to your PH. Regardless of the Legality of the 9.3 in Zim, I expect he prefers bigger bores for buffalo. If you are going to pay him to take you hunting, then you should follow his direction. If you don't agree with his thoughts, find another PH that you can agree with. For the record, I think the 9.3 is fine for the task. But if my PH said bring a bigger gun....I would bring a bigger gun. ****************************************************************** R. Lee Ermey: "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." ****************************************************************** We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! 'What the hell could possibly go wrong?' | |||
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I agree with Roscoe...find another PH! Just kidding. Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
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Just for the record, I have decided to take my Blaser R93 in .416 Rem. It shoots soft & soild ammo in the same hole at 60 yards. Also, & this will ignite a fire storm, I believe the R93 to be the best hunting rifle on the planet - they shoot straight, they travel well & the scope can be taken off & on & they always stay zeroed. ____________________________ .470 & 9.3X74R Chapuis' Tikka O/U 9.3X74R Searcy Classics 450/.400 3" & .577 C&H .375 2 1/2" Krieghoff .500 NE Member Dallas Safari Club | |||
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Now we're talkin'.....welcome to the darkside http://blaserbuds.com/forum/ | |||
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I read this thread with great interest because my PH showed me a beautiful looking rifle in his tent that I know he said was a 9.3 x ? (I just don't remember the mms)He said it was a killer but was also referred to as a "lady's gun". (I think he was referring to it the same way that,in my youth, the 7mm Mauser (7x57) was talked about the same way.I am a fervent supporter of the 7mm Mauser from personal experience on black bear and white tails and we who have used it know what a killer it is. (Penetration with bullet integrity all the way) Apparently the 9.3 is in the same boat. My user name says how I loved the 375 and I suppose the "authorities" have good reason to require the 375 as a "minimum" caliber but it sounds to me like the 9.3 is an easily handled (in recoil) caliber so it gets tagged as a "ladies' gun" -the kiss of death! | |||
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Idaho Sharpshooter has a picture of himself and his 9.3 and he SURE doesn't look like a lady. I think even if he shaved it wouldn't help much. DRSS | |||
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Hell, Rich would have to shave to look like a Humanoid!!!! | |||
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+1 My guess is that isn't going to happen?Larry Sellers SCI Life Member | |||
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...some calibres/bores seem more efficient in terms of the performance:recoil ratio... ...you see the same thing in wingshooting where 28 bores have shown themselves to be the equal of 12 bores within standard ranges and bird sizes... ...seems like the hunting world is finally coming around to appreciate this, just as the pioneers such as bell did early on... | |||
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Oooooh, do you have a thing or two to learn! ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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