...sorry...wrong use of bell as an example, since bell is forever associated with the (now fool hardy) use of the 275 rigby / 7x57 on elephants...

...perhaps a better example would be ar's own ganyana, or k. robertson, both advocates of the 9.3...

JHunter:

I appreciate the support but aren't you a little over stretching it about the 28 ga.? Will seems to think so. Maybe you're both right. Any PH,I'm sure, can tell you about clients who arrived in Africa with rifles they were afraid of. Attempting to shoot an elephant with a 30-06 can be a very dicey proposition,I'm also sure - and I loved the '06 -on white tail deer. It's always a compromise between what can be shot comfortably (and therefore -accurately) -and what will kill in the circumstances. The argument as to what caliber (or gauge) will do that will go on forever!

JHunter:

I forgot to add that I see that Will is from Kansas -and they have a lot of pheasants in Kansas. Maybe that's what he is thinking of. As an old (very old) ringneck hunter, I have to side with Will that it's hard enough to drop a pheasant with a 12 -and much as I want to support guys using small gauge shotguns (I admire their courage!) - I just don't see a 28 ga. for pheasants. (Side note - my first "shotgun" was a 410 at age 13 and I never would have thought about trying to shoot pheasants with it. I can see a 28 on quail or woodcock (particularly on woodcock)but no larger birds. Sorry, just my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by JHunter:

...you see the same thing in wingshooting where 28 bores have shown themselves to be the equal of 12 bores within standard ranges and bird sizes...

...thanks...i should have clarified that "standard ranges and bird sizes" refers to birds taken within normal ranges and with the same shot-size...

The "PH" isn't South African, is he??

How did I get drug into this?

My X74 Chapuis Double made the trip in April and did itself proud.

I figure I pay a PH LOTS of $$$ to back me up. If he had the X74 I would be concerned.

I would have no qualms about hunting Cape Buffalo with mine. I'd be happier with the old Searcy .470 NE in the thick stuff, but I hunted buff with Myles McCallom and he had the big rifle if I needed backup.

It was bang-dead-flop on a big Kudu two months ago.

As far as the shaving thing, you guys don't have enough money to video that shaving commercial...
Rich
DRSS

quote:

you see the same thing in wingshooting where 28 bores have shown themselves to be the equal of 12 bores within standard ranges and bird sizes...

Jhunter has walked into the same situation with shotguns that many folks argue about wrt rifles, namely: Is the 300WM needed for whitetails? No, unless you are shooting at 400 yards, then the flatter trajectory and increased bullet weight make the shot easier. Same with the 28, 20 and 12 ga. I don't hunt much with a shotgun, but my Skeet scores are very close with all 3 of the gauges mentioned above. The additional benefit of the 28 ga. is that it is lighter than the other two, if built specially for that gauge. I seem to recall some discussion on this forum about the weight of double rifles!
Peter.

I haven't used my 9.3x74R in Africa for Cape Buffalo but have shot 14 water buffalo with it. Used 286 gr Woodleigh Protected Points at about 2170 fps.

Killed the buffalo fine and as I was shooting sometimes four or more buffalo at once, shot one and moved onto the next with the second barrel. If needed went back and shot the earlier ones.

With proper shooting don't see why it wouldn't (typo fixed) do the same on Cape Buffalo.

I do prefer my .450 NE however for its increased knock down effect, but often the animals died just as quick or quicker with the 9.3mm.

Not commenting on the official legality or not of it in Zimbabwe.

quote:

With proper shooting don't see why it would do the same on Cape Buffalo.

Okay, I'll give you the typo.

Just what do you think is the minimum for Cape buffalo?

I promise not to chastise you for your answer. Well, maybe.

From what PH's have told me, most African countries do not check your tags to insure you brought a legal caliber. They also concur that the 9,3mm's are as good as the 375's unless you are shooting long distance. Several PH posters here have stated that they are as happy with one as the other when a client arrives.
I would hazard a guess that unless someone makes a fuss about it in-country no government entity will know, or care.
If you need something to fuss about, this is as good a nitpicky thing as any.

NOTE: rifle below is an X74R

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
From what PH's have told me, most African countries do not check your tags to insure you brought a legal caliber. They also concur that the 9,3mm's are as good as the 375's unless you are shooting long distance. Several PH posters here have stated that they are as happy with one as the other when a client arrives.
I would hazard a guess that unless someone makes a fuss about it in-country no government entity will know, or care.
If you need something to fuss about, this is as good a nitpicky thing as any.

NOTE: rifle below is an X74R

Rich
DRSS

You gonna need to buy a copy of my new book. As soon as it's published.

As we all know, shot placement is everything. If you shoot the 9.3 well and have confidence go for it. Personally, I take great comfort with my 416 Rem Mag. It shoots well and penetration is through and through.

Will,

Buy the new book? Of course I will, good reading on Africa is my favorite.

I am no expert, but; based on two trips to Africa in the last eighteen months I can state that neither in Zimbabwe or RSA did the customs people ask me if I knew the minimum caliber requirements to hunt Dangerous Game. Furthermore, in neither case did they check with my PH or anyone else to make sure I had the minimum caliber. Heck, they didn't even ask me what I had come to hunt for. They just smiled and wished me "Good luck and hope you enjoy your stay with us...".

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

With proper shooting don't see why it wouldn't do the same on Cape Buffalo.

Okay, I'll give you the typo.

Just what do you think is the minimum for Cape buffalo?

I promise not to chastise you for your answer. Well, maybe.

Well I remember the .318 used to be regarded as a great buffalo rifle.

Willy?

I don't understand why anyone would commit $40,000 or $50,000 for a DG safari and then chintz on the rifle. Or why they'd bring some big magnum they'd hardly fired and flinch with it.

Sure, the PH can back you up. Ever see a PH miss a complete elephant bull twice? I have.

I hunted buffalo for six days. It's hard going. I think a 9.3 would be ideal for the "hunting." But as for the shooting, at the end of the sixth day, I think acequate buffalo rifles start with a "4."