I am planning on heading over to Tanzania again, and this time I am planning on bringing 3 rifles.

It looks like the only real option for bringing them is the tuffpak system. 2 bolt guns and a double rifle. I expect I will be clipped a little for the weight with all 3 guns there, but its a heck of a lot lighter than a second gun case. My storm 3300 works great for 2 guns, but I don't think it would have enough padding for 3 to be safely carried.

When I looked at their web site it looks like they have more than a few options. Is there one choice that is better than the others or not?

Also, while I know we should not be using TSA locks on gun cases, sometimes the good folks at the airport have not gotten the word on things like this, and I would prefer to double lock the system (a TSA lock and also my own lock, that way if they cut the one off the other is there to keep the casual folks honest...) and I wondered if one should buy the TSA version (which they say is for guns... go figure...) or the keyed version and do my own thing there.

Also, for those of you who have used it, should one get the tuff sack, or is that just unnecessary if one is using a good heavily padded gun sleeve on each, plus some extra "junk" like clothes to pad everything well.

Also, how do most of you deal with the rifle bolt? put in some clothing outside the soft case, leave it in the soft case padded up, or leave it in the rifle?

Thanks!

quote:

Also, for those of you who have used it, should one get the tuff sack, or is that just unnecessary if one is using a good heavily padded gun sleeve on each, plus some extra "junk" like clothes to pad everything well.

Also, how do most of you deal with the rifle bolt? put in some clothing outside the soft case, leave it in the soft case padded up, or leave it in the rifle?

I used padded soft cases with pockets and put the bolts in the pockets of the cases. I have the TuffSak but did not use it.

I love my TuffPak, & use the tuffsak, but I only carry 1 rifle with me.
I take the bolt out of the rifle & wrap it in a cloth or some clothes for protection & store my rifle in a soft case.
Never use TSA locks on your firearm case.
Go to their website & print out their regulations & have them with you. If some know nothing know it all tells you something other than whats in the regs. pull out your copy & show them. Have things like the rules on locks highlighted for quick reference.
With 3 rifles in a TuffPak there may not be any room for the tuffsak on this trip.
I also take a roll of bubble wrap to place inside after everything else to help make things more secure & bubble wrap doesn't add much to the weight.

I thought the tuff sak was a great help when serial number inspections took place. I put both my rifles in barrel down. Each was in an Allen soft case. When asked to show numbers it was easy to pull the Sack out part way, pull the Allen case part way out and pull the rifle out. When completed it was easy to zip up and push everything back into the Tuffpak.'
Kathi provided flourescent id tags which allowed me to see my Tuffpak at distance and describe it to the luggage handler in Victoria Fall which allowed me to get my rifles off quickly with a minor tip.
My Tuffpak came with the vending machine lock which I think is still acceptable.
I should mention I also carried two fly rods with me and both came and went without problems and no broken tips.
Frank

Cecil:
I returned from Australia and was separated from my gun case in LA. It arrived in Anchorage and
TSA had cut off the padlocks in LA on my SKB case and opened the SKB TSA locks for inspection and re-locked the case. My cut padlocks were in the case wit the inspection notice.
What do the rules say? If there were not TSA locks would they have cut them and left the case unlocked?
Just curious.
Cal

Cal, TSA employees are not the sharpest tack in the box, what they did was against regulations. I know that doesn't help. I always make sure TSA type people inspect my guns prior to leaving and upon return if I don't end my travels at the point of return.

Here's what I did with my TuffPak:





I went to Lowe's and bought a small aluminum plate (it already had two screw holes and I added two more with a drill). I rounded off the top in a grinder to take off any sharp corners and then riveted it to the inside of the TuffPak so that it protruded past the top about 1.3 inches with one of the holes exposed.

With a small hand-held rotary saw, I cut a slot in the top cover of the TuffPak that allowed the newly installed metal to slip through it when the Pak was closed.

A TSA lock (I use the type with a flexable cable) can then go through the exposed hole and the cable, when in place, keeps the top from being removed. (note: make sure that the hole is only 1/4" above the top of the TuffPak when closed so there is no "play" in the top... also, the strap on the Pak should be quite tight).

I now have a TuffPak with both locking systems, when and how I chose to use them.

First, check your airline and destination regulations regarding the number of rifles you can have in a single gun case.

Second, the Tuffsak is definitely worth it for the reasons bwana cecil states.

Third, I put bolts inside socks which are then put inside of my boots with the laces pulled tight to keep them secure. The boots/bolts are at the "foot" of the Tuffsack in which the padded gun cases sit.

All slides into the Tuffpak and TSA can either partly slide the entire Tuffsack out or each of the soft cases can be pulled partially out to unzip the soft case to inspect the serial numbers.

I do not use a TSA lock but do carry the Government rules every time which seem very clear that no one other than I can have the ability to unlock the case. By definition, all TSA employees can unlock a TSA lock. Newark Liberty International and JFK have always been exceptional in their knowledge of the procedure and handling of my firearms. So far ...

Cal
TSA rules: The container MUST BE LOCKED and only the passenger may retain the key or combination.
http://www.avatar-moving.com/g...owarticle.asp?hid=53
Hope this helps.

I had no problem sliding the soft cases partially out for rifle inspection without a TuffSak, but your mileage may vary,

On the outside of the case get some golfing stickers, ie; Ping, Taylor Made, ect. It looks more like a golf bag than a gun case.
Doug

I put my rifle bolts in clean old socks, doubled over with a rubber band around them. Then I put them in a ziplock and mark the ziplock to identify what they are. I put this in the tuff pak zippered bag that attaches to the inside of the tuff pak. I use the tuff sak because it is so easy to slide in and out for inspection with the rifles in their soft cases. As for locks, I have always followed the federal regs and TSA rules that state that only you should have a key to the gun case:that means no TSA locks in spite of what you may believe or have been told by an incorrect TSA agent. Putting TSA locks on your gun case not only violates fed law, but invites TSA to open your gun case also in violation of federal law, and further causes problems for everyone else who obeys the law. My guns are inspected in the airport that I fly out of (Las Vegas), the tuff pak contains the specific airline's unloaded firearms card as signed by me, and I always wait at the ticket counter to make sure that TSA has either inspected my firearms case-which in that case I stand by to give them the keys-or until I have been notified by the airline ticket counter agent that I am good to go on to the boarding gate.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but the OP mentioned removing the bolt, and several answers addressed it. Pardon my ignorance, but why remove it?

Keeps from breaking your rifle!!

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Sometimes the customs and security folks are more at ease when the bolt is out too.

quote:

Originally posted by bwana cecil:
Cal
TSA rules: The container MUST BE LOCKED and only the passenger may retain the key or combination.
http://www.avatar-moving.com/g...owarticle.asp?hid=53
Hope this helps.

I think what Cal did is exactly what I do: I have four latches on my gun case. Two get "normal locks" and two get TSA locks. Since I am the only one with the key, I am okay. However, if TSA needs to get in your case, they will cut off your locks. To answer Cal's question, if they cut off your locks they will put on TSA locks in their place. As I have said before, it happened to me. The two TSA locks I use are insurance in case TSA cuts off my locks and do not have any spare TSA locks.

Use Enough Gun:
You are dead wrong about TSA not having the right to open your gun case. If they feel they need to, they will cut off your locks. I believe they will page you, but good luck in hearing that page. If you are connecting through a city coming from Canada, TSA may want to inspect your gun case (since it didn't get inspected by them in Canada).

As for the gate agent giving you the "all clear" it happened to me in Panama City. I was then paged in the gate area and asked by the gate agent to hand over my keys - TSA did want to check my case after all. I was told I would not be able to view the inspection.

The best way in this day and age to avoid having to open your gun case is keep everything out of the case except your guns. Gun oil is a definite invitation to inspection.

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
First, check your airline and destination regulations regarding the number of rifles you can have in a single gun case.

Second, the Tuffsak is definitely worth it for the reasons bwana cecil states.

Third, I put bolts inside socks which are then put inside of my boots with the laces pulled tight to keep them secure. The boots/bolts are at the "foot" of the Tuffsack in which the padded gun cases sit.

All slides into the Tuffpak and TSA can either partly slide the entire Tuffsack out or each of the soft cases can be pulled partially out to unzip the soft case to inspect the serial numbers.

I do not use a TSA lock but do carry the Government rules every time which seem very clear that no one other than I can have the ability to unlock the case. By definition, all TSA employees can unlock a TSA lock. Newark Liberty International and JFK have always been exceptional in their knowledge of the procedure and handling of my firearms. So far ...

You are correct; some airlines limit you to two firearms in one case. Northwest had that policy; not sure if it is in place at Delta.

If you plan to pack anything other than your rifles in soft cases, the TuffSak is worth it's weight in gold. It will make your life and that of the TSA goons much easier. DO NOT add another locking device to a TuffPak as that will draw attention from TSA and is simply asking for headaches you don't need.

I bought one of the first TuffPak and the TuffSak when it came out a couple years later. Mine has done 16 african safaris to 9 countries as well as other international travel. It is still working as designed and will be off again, to Zim, in 3.5 weeks.

JudgeG
That is a good idea. Hope you don't mind if I steal it.

AAW: With all due respect, I never said that TSA did not have the right to open your gun case. That was an incorrect assumption on your part. Please re-read the post. They must first page you, if you are not still present at the check-in counter in order to gain access to your firearms case, with your key, if they are going to allow the firearms case to fly on with you. They can also prevent it from flying to its destination if they so choose. Under the federal regs, you and only you can have a key to the firearms case. That is clear, and no one has disagreed with that. Because of that, it totally rules out TSA locks, since the TSA has a key to open TSA locks. Having TSA locks on your gun case invites them to open your gun case without your knowledge and permission. It breaks the federal regs. In the past, I have been paged twice to return and have them open my firearms case. It was inconvenient and I nearly missed my flight in one instance. Therefore, I learned many, many safaris ago to simply hand the keys to my Tuff Pak to the check-in agent when they were taking the firearms case back to TSA for inspection, and to remain at the check-in counter until they returned with the keys and told me it was ok to proceed to the boarding gate. That has been my experience and protocol, and I have never had a single problem since I started following it.

UEG:

Fair enough. But I maintain my system of having two TSA locks and two personal locks is the best way to assure my case arrives locked. I follow the law in that I am the only one that can open the case, but if TSA does have to cut my locks, they can do it and still lock up my case using the two TSA locks.

But will they is the million dollar question? If they are dumb enough to cut them in the first place, wouldn't place to much faith in them relocking it no matter what. I follow the exact same proceedure as UEG and have never had a single hicup coming or going through airports Worldwide with the Tuff Pak. Just saying.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
UEG:

Fair enough. But I maintain my system of having two TSA locks and two personal locks is the best way to assure my case arrives locked. I follow the law in that I am the only one that can open the case, but if TSA does have to cut my locks, they can do it and still lock up my case using the two TSA locks.

I guess it is just where I embark from, I always accompany my tuff pak to the TSA check point and watch while they check my guns. Only once in Pittsburgh did they not open and check the guns, just said all was good.