The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Are the SAVE & BUBYE affected by "parks fees" increa$e?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
Sorry if this is redundant, I saw the same ?'s asked but don't recall the definitive answer. Also---Are COW buffalo trophy fees also increased, in any areas of Zim? Thanks. | ||
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Privatley owned lands like Save are not affected, YET. I am not familiar with Bubye, so cannot comment. I have a cow & bull buff hunt scheduled for July in the Save & have heard from my outfitter that my fees with not increase. LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
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Not yet, but don't think they are going to sell their hunts cheaper than parks. I know that the trophy fee for lion is to go up to $32,000 in 2016. This year they have a non-trophy buffalo hunt that the TF is less than the trophy hunt. It would give you a chance to hunt buf at a lower cost and not have the shipping fee and taxidermy bill. | |||
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Thanks, guys. I have a cow buff hunt in the SAVE this July, haven't heard from my outfitter yet, but, no hurries. I'm sure we'll be in touch as needed. So many changes, so quickly, happening throughout Africa...Here's hoping things calm down a bit and hunting remains viable and (relatively) affordable... | |||
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Unbelievable!!! "There are worse memorials to a life well-lived than a pair of elephant tusks." Robert Ruark | |||
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unbelievable yes- surprising, no. Africans are their own worst enemy. sooner or later, the goose laying the golden egg dies of starvation... Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… | |||
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A TF of $32,000 from a conservation point of view makes a lot of sense - basically you would be killing one animal instead of half a dozen with less lions being shot because fewer hunters are prepared to pay that kind of fee and the preservation of the species will look more viable (from a sporting point of view). The main problem of poaching followed by human encroachment which in my opinion are the real issues, still have to be revisited. | |||
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Also remember as of 2016 WHERE ELSE are you going to be able to get a good (wild) lion other than SAVE/Bubye??? | |||
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Lots of places! | |||
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Not Zambia or Botswana Tanzania is down to what about 40 or 50 a year? I think Robin Hurt took 1 in 12' TGTS took 1 in 12' Ramoni took 6 or 7 but his run is over due to loss of areas. Danny McCallum took 4 that I know of in 12' Pasanisi took 1 that I know of probably more Adam Clements probably took 5 Mozambique is good for buffalo and sable in the delta especially but no lion. Niassa maybe a couple. Dont know of anywhere else at the moment. | |||
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I did leave out Matetsi..best govt area in Zim by far and probably a couple in the valley. | |||
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Ouch! In 2005 I did my first hunt with Buzz for a lioness in Chewore North. It was late October and we were successful with the lioness on the first day. There was a big male lion in the area and since Big Five still had one on license I could have hunted it for a trophy fee of just $ 4,500. I passed as I didn't want to bust my budget at the time. My daily rate would have stayed the same at $600 or $ 700 a day (I don't remember exactly) and there was no exaggerated trophy fee mark up for the male lion. If only I knew. STAY IN THE FIGHT! | |||
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You definatley blew it for sure on that one! | |||
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IF I could afford it..and I can't there is no doubt where my deposit would be going and I tell you it is not even close...The BVC. | |||
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I'll bet ya $100.00 Zambia re-opens cat hunting in 2014. Mozambique does have some good lion hunting, all across the Niassa Province, and other places, not just the blocks in the Niassa Reserve. I know of a bunch of good lions that have come out of Moz in the past couple years. If Tanzania takes 40-50 lions per year, isn't that a good place? Nobody shoots 10 - 20 lions per year, the BVC included. Numerous places/outfitters throughout Zim have good lion hunting, and take good lion - not just the BVC or Matetsi. Just not all of them get noted/posted on AR or elsewhere. Namibia will shoot a couple, so will SA - and not high fence cats. CAWA's area in CAR is good lion hunting, if you're interested in that kind of hunt (mainly calling) BF does a few good hunts every year. There's many, many options for good lion hunts outside of the BVC. Just as you, I would hunt there in a heartbeat for lion - but its far from the only good place to go lion hunting. | |||
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Aaron..hope you are right on Zambia. Hopefully sustainable quotas in the GMA's this time..say 1 or 2 instead of 3 to 5 atleast to start. The BVC in my opinion has the best handle on their situation going forward. Look at the results they have achieved on a 850,000 acre landmass. 8 monster lions in 2012...a great pipeline of "younger" males, the best anti poaching in Africa as evidenced by a viable and increasing black rhino population. This is the model going forward IMO and I am sure places like Nuanetsi are taking note. | |||
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I'm not sure where you get the notion that Lion quotas in Zambia are or have been un-sustainable??  I know Dr. White - the most knowledgable Lion expert in all of Zambia would most definitely not agree with that statement! I've spent a little time in Zambia too, and that statement would be far from accurate. I do know that on occasion, outfitters in the east have taken advantage of their previous quotas, but that's been a thing of the past. First, quotas are completely irrelevant if the taking of only "mature/old" lions is practiced. Second, one look at the vast majority of the lions taken from Zambia in the past 5 yrs, the Kafue region in particular, would refute any notion of too many lions on quota. Thirdly, one look at Dr. White's year by year data collection of virtually every single lion shot in Zambia would show you that the vast majority of lion trophies shot each year - are 5 yrs and older. I always use my buddy Richard Bell-Cross as an example when it comes to these things. His area is roughly 4,000 sq kilometers - with only 3 lion on quota per year (prior to the closing). Even the most conservative lion lover of them all, Dr. Craig Packer believes in a 1 lion per 1,000 sq kilometers (off take). He also agrees with the complete elimination of quotas all-together, with proper lion hunting/management policies in place. Frankly, I think you can easily take 1 lion per 500km2, even more in areas of high lion densities - especially if practicing good lion management. I don't mean this to be personal, but its the constant spread of such mis-information that contributes to the exact situation that Zambia finds itself in now. The loss of lion hunting, or the loss of the majority of the lion quota in Zambia - will spell sure demise for the species and many others. Most operators will struggle badly to support their areas/anti-poaching, etc, with 1 lion per year on quota. Frankly, it might happen that way - but needed it most certainly is NOT! I do agree that the BVC is a shining example of wildlife management, and good for them!! Unfortunately, the money it would take to do the same in Zambia for example, would be beyond staggering - and completely beyond reach. Reducing the lion quotas even further in Zambia would have nothing but a negative effect. | |||
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Aaron..I was referring to quotas/lion quality in the east (Luangwa)..if that situation had been rectified I stand corrected. Everything I have seen out of the Kafue GMA's recently looks good. Keep up the fight! | |||
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Isnt the BVC High Fenced... i can not belive you can shoot 8 lions 6 years or older in a truly Wild hunting Area of the same size in one season. Nec Timor Nec Temeritas | |||
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Yes if you can call an 850,000 acre area "high fenced". Lion population naturally reproducing...I dont think you can compare it to the "Put and Take" situation in SA IMO. | |||
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IMO YES ! Nec Timor Nec Temeritas | |||
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No problem..difference of opinion on that one. One thing I will say in light of the problems going on right now in most "open" concessions..poaching, snaring, encroachment.. I wish we had a dozen BVC's (or SAVE..dont want to leave them out if they can wade thru the current political issues). | |||
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Then you can't hunt anywhere in Africa because they are surrounded by water and can't escape--  | |||
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Safari2, I think we have to be careful when making sweeping statement on AR about game populations. If I was very new to Africa and read your post I might think lion hunting was nearly over regardless of the possibility that US,F&G might uplist the lion to endangered. As Aaron said lions are available in good numbers in numerous areas of Africa and with good management will continue to be available. If one can afford a lion hunt the choices of an area are many. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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One of Us |
That trophy fee is fine as long as the day rates reflect the fact that few hunters will be successful. Essentially when I hunted with Andrew in Zambia the Lion cost $27,000 in trophy fees when the trigger got pulled because of the way the day rates were predicated on success. If I didn't kill a Lion my day rates were $20,000 less. The trophy fee on paper was $7,000. There was zero pressure to shoot an immature Lion. And we passed up an immature male that was 7 feet from our ground blind looking in the blind holes at us. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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One of Us |
I do think that the regional trophy fee on Lion is currently undervalued and that a higher trophy fee paid on success is the way to go. Those who have big hairy mature cats will do well the others will go by the wayside. The BVC is a success story and proves that Lion breed prolifically under a well managed environment. Lion populations are directly related to game concentrations and not land mass. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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| one of us |
TGTS took 3 lion, only  "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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I apologize Bwana..when I looked at your display in Dallas as well as the DVD from the 2012 season I just saw the one...taken in Moyowasi I believe. | |||
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Thank you Andrew. | |||
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Those BVC lion are truly magnificent specimen, typically reminiscent of their South African brethren brought up in captivity  | |||
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I COULD be mistaken but the BVC lion were originally sourced from Hwange NP. | |||
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To take nearly a million acres and to create an investor success story is an admirable feat fenced or not. Agreed that these are introduced Lions but they are wild as with the other indigenous species. Currently there is no other area that can touch the BVC for it's coordinated management programmes. It produces trophy quality game for the sport of hunting in a wild environment. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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We dont need to argue the point any more ..the only thing I want to know is where/and when is the next one going to be? Like I said earlier..I wish we had a dozen of them..case closed. | |||
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Way to hijack a thread guys! 2 replies to my original post and 30 more about expensive lions.. No worries,thats cool, I'm sure I hopped on board hijacked posts before... | |||
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We dont need to argue the point any more ..the only thing I want to know is where/and when is the next one going to be? Like I said earlier..I wish we had a dozen of them..case closed.[/QUOTE] I also but we will not find a lot of people willing to invest $ 100 million on hunting & conservation projects! | |||
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I just saw the lion video last night that Osprey prepared for USFW, well at least part of it. The BVC portion was near the beginning. It was extremely informative and interesting. They have done a fantastic job. Don't forget the Save though. I was in Sango last October. I saw a LARGE number of lions. I could have easily take 2 that were definite shooters on our long walks. I forget the exact number but it was more lions than I have seen any safari ANYWHERE including TZ. I saw these in spite of the fact that we were not lion hunting nor did we have baits up. | |||
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Larry...yes SAVE is right there as well if they can get through the current political issues intact. The next BVC?? Although not as large I would say Nuanetsi has every chance to accomplish similar results. | |||
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I agree. They have done a great job thus far. | |||
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Okay, now that we hashed out the lion issue, would or could someone please answer the original question? Are the added fees going to affect the BVC or Save? Thanks | |||
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| One of Us |
Seven - The question was answered in the 2nd post. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Are the SAVE & BUBYE affected by "parks fees" increa$e?
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