Hello

I'm planning and saving monthly and exercizing (almost daily walking with a 12 lb splitting maul) for my first African hunt next year at 72 yrs of age.

The outfitter I'm now considering offers a
hunt for 10+ year old "management bulls" with "a maximum of 37" spread."

While I don't expect a record, neither do I want to spend my hard saved $$$$$ on a wobbly legged midget either.

So, Question: Is under 37" at least respectable?

Thank you,

Bill

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It depends on the area.

Would this "hunt for 10+ year old "management bulls" with "a maximum of 37" spread" be taking place in South Africa?

George

Bill,

An old Dugga boy of less than 37" is to most everybody a real trophy regardless of its SCI score.

Mark

George: Yes, in ZA!

Mark: thanks!

Bill

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In my opinion the tape measure comes second to the experience of the hunt.
To me personally, a broken horned old bull with tatters for ears and no more hair on his face is a true Buffalo.
You get many "pretty Buff" with 40+ inch spread, hard tops and full curves. They are nice but the brute with the ugly face that will never be a record book buff will always be the one for me.

There is nothing wrong with a 37 inch Buff so long as you enjoy your hunt. It is your hunt and not the guy next door that needs to be happy.

If the hunt is in SA or in Egypt, it does not matter. What matters is your experience and enjoyment.

My first bull was about 37 1/2, my second was a hair over 41 and my last and best hunt yet was for a bull that has amazing bosses, a heavy drop and good horn length and won't go 36" wide. It is more the hunt than the trophy to me.

I agree with the rest...a hard bossed old bull is what it is about. Sure, wide is nice, but to me, any old guy is a real trophy. I think unless I was in Maasailand, I wouldn't be worried too much about how wide. That's just me...

my "best" bull is only 37" but he was older than Methuselah all torn up and about to become lion food. i'd rather have him that almost any other

Really no reason for me to jump in here because the others have summed up what makes a buffalo trophy quite succintly. I would add that all of my buff trophies are special, but my most memorable trophies are the ones I had to work for, regardless of size!

Hmmmm, let's see. Bill, I'm not real good at all this numerology business but as I see it, 10 years and 37" is almost half of 72 years and zero inches...I think your taking advantage of the little feller

Pal, if your shoulder can still muster a 458 at 72, you are my hero. I can't wait to read your report. Good hunting mate, best of luck!

BC:

Actually I carry the maul in hand with its head toward the ground to simulate carrying my custom, heavily barrelled ZK 602 in 416 Rem (yes, Rem- not Rigby). I carry it this way because I suppose that a shoulder carry is less in readiness for fast shooting. I will take a sling though for when I tire.

This Safari prep is good for me as I'm a diabetic with a five bypass heart surgery behind me.

Thank you so much for your good wishes ; I really appreciate the good folks here.

Bill

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There are at least two sides to every story!

I sometimes wonder as to the motivation of outfitters telling the client a 37" bull is a trophy.

In my opinion a 37" bull is just a bull, a management bull that should be on the cheap, or an admission there are no bulls in the area bigger than 37". And if no one else want it, it should be on the cheap.

If you want to kill an old skull cap, have at it. A 37" bull is not bad but not a "trophy" in my opinion. My boy killed a 37" bull and you should have heard the BS coming from the PH in justifying shooting a "baby" bull.

Any bull is better than no bull but you better remind the lurkers and the self-righteous types that they all agreed that a 37" is a trophy if you think it is.

And don't let the PH pretend that you have to walk twenty miles a day to shoot a damn buff. If you do there ain't any buff in the country.

You drive down the road until you find fresh tracks crossing it. Buff are usually not in a hurry. Within a mile you should come up with them. Sometimes they are spooky and you never catch up with them.

If you bump them more than a couple times, in my experience, they will be spooked for the rest of the day and most likely you'll never catch up with them before dark. It is far better to go back to the Cruiser and try to find more fresh spoor.

I've had a PH or two that wanted to bump the buff all day, I guess to prove he could walk further and faster than I. A guy that is "well-respected" among the groupies but I have a different opinion.

I've even seen a PH walk a couple old farts so far on the first day they they wound up with terrible blisters, and were basically out of commission for who knows how many days. What a jerk off. Oh, he has a lot of groupies too.

PH's sometimes try to intimidate their clients. I soon learned not to put up that shit.

Sight your rifle in for dead-on at a hundred yards. Shoot the thing broadside almost but not quite half way up from its belly to its back. And immediately right behind the front leg.

Sometimes things just don't go as well as planned but if you are in a decent area you should see plenty of bulls and have one in a few days without killing yourself to prove to the boys on AR how tough you are.

I was in God's country on my first buff hunt and through the screw ups and mismanagement of the hunt by my PH I wound up shooting a little shit of a 35" (?, I forget) buff.

If it was I, I'd be more worried about how many buff are in the area even if you're not worried about size.

And if you don't care about size, just shoot straight and kill the damn thing and you got a buff. The last thing you want to do is wound it as things could get ugly. And you sure as hell don't want the PH shooting your buff.

Is a 37" buff a trophy? No, not really. But for the first buff and maybe the last, so what?

Disregarding the size, have fun, shoot straight, and don't kill yourself trying to impress anyone around here!

I have a problem with the management part and what exactly does that mean?

quote:

I carry it this way because I suppose that a shoulder carry is less in readiness for fast shooting. I will take a sling though for when I tire.

I just read you're last reply. Don't make buff hunting into something it isn't. A bull is not going to jump out at you as you walk past every bush. Nor should you be so anxious as to have the rifle at the ready all the time. Buff are just overgrown scaredie cats. They tear off at the slightest provocation.

Find a buff. Take plenty of time in shooting it.

Good for you Bill! I would suggest that after being cleared by your doctor for such activities that picking up a 12 lbs Body Bar Body Bar get some zip ties and a cheap sling. Would balance more like your rifle than that splitting maul. Probably a good idea, weather permitting, to wear your intended footwear during this exercise. A CamelBak or other suitable hydration bladder system would be a good idea too. The added weight will simulate the other assorted gear you will pack in the bush and hydration is important as we lose some of our ability to deal with heat/cold as we age. Please keep us updated.

+1 on Will's comments. If you find yourself getting tired, it is no sin to let one of the entourage carry your rifle part of the time. Your PH won't carry his own all the time. Its your vacation paid for with your money. Enjoy yourself!

Hello Will:

Thanks for taking the time to make your long post. Your characterizing of some PH's could be a bit worrisome for safari newbies as I am.

While I'm concerned by your implications with the thought of my winding up with a PH who might mismanage or attempt intimidation or over work clients, I'm especially interested in your saying, no doubt with much experience to support it, that some PH's (only) PRETEND that much walking is required by buff hunters. Your implication seems to be that much walking is not required.

That point raises in my mind a question: Are seven, ten or more days really necessary to do a hunt or is that a PH pretension too made just to justify the cost to the client?

Thanks,

Bill

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Not to worry. Seven or ten days takes some of the pressure off about getting a buff. I've done some 5-day buff hunts and they are really too short.

As long as you're going with a reputable PH in a good area it should be a piece of cake.

And make sure you go in their winter when the leaves are off so you can see what is going on in the bush.

Bill:

I think Will answered this very well. I agree a 37 inch bull is not a "trophy" in terms of being a mount that will "ooh and ahh" other African hunters, but if it is a hard bossed bull, it is a nice representative trophy. In many areas of the Selous, I would call it a trophy. I have a small beautifully furred grizzly that I shot on a solo DIY hunt when I lived in Alaska. It is a treasured mount, but certainly not a big griz. And I have some animals that I mounted just because they remind me of a certain area. I mounted a topi because they are all over western Tanz. Was it big? I have no idea.

Go to any Cabelas and see how many 40 inch buffalo you see. Note how many are less than 37 inches - IMO, most of them are. Go to a taxidermy shop and see how many buffalo are over 37" or over 40".

What I get really tired of is PHs and guides telling me "That is a really good animal," or even worse: "I don't think we are going to see a better one" and it is only the third day of the hunt. I see this more on hunts in the US where i have booked 1x1 and there are others in camp on 2x1 hunts. Guess where my guide goes after I fill out??

On my first two buffalo hunts I suffered from PHs who either couldn't estimate size, or didn't even bother to look at it from the front (that is how you shoot a soft-bossed bull).

One more thing, and this is just my opinion. You need to communicate clearly what you want. Tell the PH. If you don't tell him, he won't know.

I am going to Masailand soon to shoot a big buff. I am going to be very disappointed if I shoot a bull less than 40 inches. If I don't shoot one, I will be less disappointed than if I shoot one less than 40. Hell, on my last two 21 day licenses I only shot two because I didn't see one bigger than what I had shot.

But at the end of the day, it is your hunt. If the biggest bull you see on day 10 is a hard bossed 35 inch bull, I would shoot him. Just don't do it on day 1.

One more thing:

I don't think buffalo hunting is strenuous, although I do recall going after one bull in Kigosi for 8 hours; water was gone after hour 4. But in general, it really is a piece of cake. You ain't climbing mountains; it is generally flat.

Will, Another, and All:

Thank you for your explanations and advice!

Bill

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A hard-earned, mature bull is a trophy in my estimation -- regardless of width, score, etc. And, I've walked away from a bull that was old, and definitely shootable, but was just too close to the truck. Just not cricket.

I'm going to Masailand in a couple of months, hopefully to get the "big and wide" out of my system. Then, I can get back to hunting buffalo for the sake of hunting buffalo.

Enjoy your hunt. Shoot a mature buffalo. That, along with the experience, is the true trophy, in my opinion.

JMHO. A trophy bull is an old, hard bossed bull that you take fair chase. For me, the pursuit of inches is what ruins hunts.

Frank,
You are, no doubt, correct. I have never carried a tape on a hunt and will not this time either. Just would like one buffalo that is rather on the large side and after that, it's back to just a mature animal -- and an interesting, challenging hunt.

I am by no means and expert on buff hunting only having hunted them twice in Zim but i had one hell of a time and would do it evey year if i had the funds.I think what you need to ask yourself is....what do you want in a trophy.... my bulls were 36 & 36.5inches wide but I was looking for old hard bossed bulls and the width was of no concern they bith had 13.5inch bosses and fully joined which looks,to me,so much better than a wide buff with no boss,good luck and have a blast

Bill,
I would like to add, you are tipping and paying your PH. He is working for his employer but he is also working for YOU. If he is walking too fast, tell him. When I hunted with Chifuti in August, I had just begun recovery from a motorcycle wreck. 2 Bears stepped out in front of me 13 miles from home and I ended up with 8 broken ribs, punctured lung and a separated shoulder. My PH knew this in advance and took very good care of me. His name is Clint Edwards, with Chifuti Safaris. I would hunt with him more than one more time. Had a fantastic hunt. He knew my limitations and didn't push it. figure out what you can afford and then add 5,000 for tips, trophy shipments to the states and tanning and check around. If you want to go, have a ball. If the PH doesn't respect the fact that you are the age you are and can't run 25 miles in 45 minutes, ask for another PH. Have fun. You ain't gettin any younger and you need to enjoy the experience.

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
Bill,
I would like to add, you are tipping and paying your PH. He is working for his employer but he is also working for YOU. If he is walking too fast, tell him. When I hunted with Chifuti in August, I had just begun recovery from a motorcycle wreck. 2 Bears stepped out in front of me 13 miles from home and I ended up with 8 broken ribs, punctured lung and a separated shoulder. My PH knew this in advance and took very good care of me. His name is Clint Edwards, with Chifuti Safaris. I would hunt with him more than one more time. Had a fantastic hunt. He knew my limitations and didn't push it. figure out what you can afford and then add 5,000 for tips, trophy shipments to the states and tanning and check around. If you want to go, have a ball. If the PH doesn't respect the fact that you are the age you are and can't run 25 miles in 45 minutes, ask for another PH. Have fun. You ain't gettin any younger and you need to enjoy the experience.

On my first DG hunt I was unaware that I had a charter; I was going to be short on cash and was quite nervous. I think my PH sensed that he was going to get a small tip. I ended up tipping him $100/day, but I think he thought I was going to stiff him and didn't work that hard.

Allow enough for tips.

quote:

I'm going to Masailand in a couple of months, hopefully to get the "big and wide" out of my system. Then, I can get back to hunting buffalo for the sake of hunting buffalo.

Lavaca:

I very much doubt it - once you have taken what you rightly term "big & wide" in Masailand you will be back to Masailand for more.

Mark my words.

Fufotupu:

I'm afraid you are probably right. None of my African addictions seem to get better; they just seem to get worse.