The US Dollar went over 6.5 Rand on Friday.

Terry,

Now that is good news. Hope it keeps on going to at least R10/$. OTOH what is wrong with wishing for more than this reasonable exchange rate?

BTW, my prices all work in ZAR, so my clients wish for a strong $ with me. I want a strong $ because that means it's just so much easier to get clients.

Well, you can expect another price hike for safaris. They always raise prices, regardless of whether the dollar goes up or down, claiming that the stronger/weaker dollars means they have to pay more for something or other that they pay for in rand.

Yet another reason I no longer hunt RSA.

George

George,

Ye of little faith!

Surely, the outfitters will happily reduce prices as readily as they increased them due to the weakening dollar! Won't they? Or maybe they will throw in extra, free, or discounted animals as many said they did before, when they were getting 8,10,11+ rand for each of our dollars.

Les

Gerald doesn't post here so I'll be the one to point out that throughout all the currency fluctuations of the past couple of years, Nomad Safari's prices (all marked in dollars, thank-you very much) haven't changed more than a couple of per cent.

Different Outfit's, different levels of greed.
Or some no greed at all.

Les,

When the dollar was 10 Rand, we were told that the prices had to go up, since they were paying for things in hard currency and dollars cost more, so...

Then the dollar went down, and they told us that prices had to go up since the dollar just didn't have the buying power it once did.

It's basically a game of 'soak the clients (especially Americans)'. I won't have it.

George

......And we all drive round in Ferraris in the offseason that is when we're not in Monte Carlo or off buying a new motor yacht or private plane.......YAAWWWWNNNNN.........

GeorgeS,

Do you care to put some names to the "they" you say are always increasing prices?

Andrew McLaren

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Les,

When the dollar was 10 Rand, we were told that the prices had to go up, since they were paying for things in hard currency and dollars cost more, so...

Then the dollar went down, and they told us that prices had to go up since the dollar just didn't have the buying power it once did.

It's basically a game of 'soak the clients (especially Americans)'. I won't have it.

George

George

The biggest factor that needs to be considered in the price increases you speak about , is the fact that most of the outfitters in SA need to buy their quota from private landowners . In many cases , these landowners ARE NOT OUTFITTERS ( and cannot legally sell a hunt to a non-resident of SA ). As in any business , greed is often the route by which these landowners' objectives are achieved . Especially as far as DG is concerned , and in many cases plains game as well , these landowners charge outfitters in US$ ( Which according to SA law , is illegal ) , and often their prices are the same , or higher than what these animals are usually sold to clients for .

Inexperienced outfitters often fall prey to this greed and end up doing themselves a serious injustice . To many of these landowners , their private game reserves are merely a hobby that they try to make money out of . Obviously , because they own the land and the animals on it , they can charge what they like .
On numerous occasions , my final words to one of these landowners was - I WILL BE PRAYING FOR A SEVERE DROUGHT IN YOUR AREA , AND WILL CALL YOU AGAIN WHEN IT HAPPENS .

You will see that other outfitters' prices have remained more or less the same over the last 5 years or so , as they have areas where they still get their quota at more reasonable prices .

I agree that your , 'soak the clients (especially Americans)' , sydrome does exist in a very big way , but is not true for all of us .

Brad

quote:

Well, you can expect another price hike for safaris. They always raise prices, regardless of whether the dollar goes up or down, claiming that the stronger/weaker dollars means they have to pay more for something or other that they pay for in rand.

Yet another reason I no longer hunt RSA.

George

George,

I would really like you to respond to my request of naming, even if only a few, of the "they" - which could be all hunting outfitters and certainly all South African hunting outfitters - you say will be increasing their prices. Do you actually have names? Or were you just sitting in the mederators' chair and taking a broad swipe at all and everyone?

Andrew McLaren

“Yet another reason I no longer hunt RSA.â€

George

Wow!!!! Thanks for the favor George. It is really appreciated. Please let me know, if at any time now or in the future, I can do anything to show my appreciation for your wise decision. You’ve created a win/win situation.

Riaan:
Whether I agree with you or not, that is the best response I've ever seen!
Kudus to you!

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
......And we all drive round in Ferraris in the offseason that is when we're not in Monte Carlo or off buying a new motor yacht or private plane.......YAAWWWWNNNNN.........

Hey, Steve! I never knew you were one of us "rich Americans"! !!!!

I dont generally listen to the peasants in this world, although I just do happen to be a peasant myself monetorily speaking

I prefer to listen to the millionaires and high flying economists of this world and this is what they generally seem say ...

Stocks will go up, and stocks wil go down, dont knee jerk and panic as over the months and years the flow is slowly up and slowly down but generally the median prices will rise with time ..

The lessom we need to ALL learn is that prices generally stabalise over time therefore we should not IMHO react and increase prices whenever there is a kink in the currency /

Basically we have tended to keep our daily rate SA prices the same for the past 2/3 years and only from time to time made some increases in some specie fees, but only based upon supply and demand ...

I wish the OIL companies would use the same formulae as they are stinging us left right and center at the pump ...

Dont be caught just like the story of the [ OLD MAN ] whom wanted to BUY a house when he was young and said he was waiting for the prices to come down, he is now a very old man with a long beard and he is still waiting for prices to come down, and would you believe he has no house ...

HUNT NOW, as over time the prices will always increase just as certainly as day turns to night

Peter

yes, they will Balla, but for many people, their personal incomes will go up faster than the price of hunting. I for one know a buffalo (or substitute any other animal) hunt is cheaper for me today than it was ten years ago.

If faced with a decision of investing money in one's business (to grow revenue) or spend it on hunting (because the price is going up) I could not fault one for doing the former, as it just might mean more of the latter in the future.

I am old and have never seen anything drop in price. The price of gas will go down you say? Sure but not to where it was. We will now be glad to see say $1.80 per gallon next time we will be glad to see $2.00 per and as we get use to it up it gose. Just how it works.

I bnooked a sheep hunt in the NWT in 1995. I was told by the agent that he thought the price would eventually drop.I paid $8500 for that hunt. Today it is at $13,500.At the same time, George DOES have a point.If there is a moral to this thread it has to be GO NOW!

I'm not going to post the name of the South African outfit/company here but I will pass along their day rates. I hunted with them in 2000 and 2002. I am going back this August (2005). Same outfit all three times so this is a valid comparison of day rates.

2000 - $250 / day
2002 - $300 / day
2003 - $350 / day
2004 - $400 / day
2005 - $400 / day

(I forgot what the day rate was for 2001.)

Plains games only; game farm hunt in Limpopo Province in South Africa.

Fortunately, since I am a repeat customer, they gave me a $50 per day discount on the day rate for my trip coming up this August. But, $300 per day (2002) to $400 per day (2005) is a 33.3% increase. I understand that the dollar weakened between 2002 and 2005 so things will cost more for me in dollars. But the fact remains that my income has not gone up 33% between 2002 and 2005. (Yes, the exchange rate for the dollar turned "against me" so to speak.)

Rand vs US Dollar - last 5 years

Source: http://www.rainbownation.com/business/randvsdollar.asp

Notice that their day rates still went up during 2000 to 2002 at the time that the Rand was weakening against the dollar.

I simply put this out here as one example. Draw your own conclusions from it.....

-Bob F.

Check out www.oanda.com This is a website with all sorts of currency related information including up to date conversion rates.

RCG

quote:

Originally posted by invader66:
I am old and have never seen anything drop in price. The price of gas will go down you say? Sure but not to where it was. We will now be glad to see say $1.80 per gallon next time we will be glad to see $2.00 per and as we get use to it up it gose. Just how it works.

The price of gas has actually gone down, relative to the price in 1980. Back then it was almsot 2 bucks a gallon. In today's dollars that would be like paying $5.08 per gallon. So in real terms, it has gotten cheaper. I am not saying African hunting will be cheaper, but if your income is going up faster than inflation, waiting will not hurt.

With respect to the sheep hunt, suppose your disposable income today is twice what it was back then. In real terms, that sheep is actually less expensive.

Guests

If we get into a yesteryear / today debate about prices we are in danger of ALL dissappearing down our own backsides, and we will not ever solve it ...

This will explain why / E=mc²

Now remember, everything is relative aint it, so no matter what we earned and what things cost us in 1896 when (you and I) were spring chickens, it aint relavent today

Please listen to Uncle Albert he was a very clever man that chap and if we try to prove him wrong we have two chances, little or no chance at all ...

Peter

I agree. Hunt NOW. I have seen prices go up dramatically since 2002 and it's always the dollars vs. rand argument. But here's a good example. For this year the prices quoted by the concession owners and/or ranchers in SA were at 5 to 5.5 rand v. US for 2005. And, I was even told by one PH that the prices might go up even more if the rand grew stronger. But now as the dollar has gotten stronger I haven't seen any readjustment in prices. (downward) The rand was at 6.35 yesterday vs. the dollar. Why shouldn't prices be readjusted?

quote:

Originally posted by Verewaaier:

quote:

Well, you can expect another price hike for safaris. They always raise prices, regardless of whether the dollar goes up or down, claiming that the stronger/weaker dollars means they have to pay more for something or other that they pay for in rand.

Yet another reason I no longer hunt RSA.

George

George,

I would really like you to respond to my request of naming, even if only a few, of the "they" - which could be all hunting outfitters and certainly all South African hunting outfitters - you say will be increasing their prices. Do you actually have names? Or were you just sitting in the mederators' chair and taking a broad swipe at all and everyone?

Andrew McLaren

The same thing happens in Namibia. Just ask what the local hunters pay for game animals. In Namibia the price is per Kg.of dressed weight regardless of the sex or trophy quality. The same is true in RSA. The difference in that price and the price charged by the PH for the trophy fee is the where the gouge starts. There is legitimate cost of doing business and the PH is the middle man.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
I agree. Hunt NOW. I have seen prices go up dramatically since 2002 and it's always the dollars vs. rand argument. But here's a good example. For this year the prices quoted by the concession owners and/or ranchers in SA were at 5 to 5.5 rand v. US for 2005. And, I was even told by one PH that the prices might go up even more if the rand grew stronger. But now as the dollar has gotten stronger I haven't seen any readjustment in prices. (downward) The rand was at 6.35 yesterday vs. the dollar. Why shouldn't prices be readjusted?

They can make an easy buck by leaving the price the same. Some outfitters and PH's are booked for years ahead. The clients of these groups is the more affluent hunters. For every PH that is fully booked each year, there have to be hundreds that are only partially booked for the season. They wonder why? Mostly due to unreasonable hunting fees! IMHO

The price goes up simply because we are willing to pay to hunt in Africa.
If a few hundred dollars - a thousand on a PG hunt is stopping you from going, you may wish to rethink if you can really afford Africa at all.
What POs me is the gouge put to us Americans by brokerage houses and shipping agents whom handle our trophy shipments.

quote:

In Namibia the price is per Kg.of dressed weight regardless of the sex or trophy quality. The same is true in RSA.

lb 404

I have made a few searches on Namibia Hunting Outfitters and found only prices quoted in US $ and Namibian $ - none per kilogram dressed weight. I know that a few ranch owners offering basic gane hunting will quote costs in Nab.$/Kg dressed mass, but is this the norm for trophy hunters by foreign clients? Or is the standard quoted as US$ per trophy killed or wounded? I do not know Namibia. Please help me by stating exactly what is the general method of pricing trophy hunting in Namibia by foreign (American) clients? Are trophies usually priced as $/kg dressed weight or $ per animal? Having not hunted in Namibia since about 1974 I'm totally ignorent on how trophy prices work in Namibia.

As for your statement that it is the same in RSA, I can only ask: "When did you last hunt in RSA?" "Where did you last hunt in RSA?" "With w hich Hunting Outfitter did you last hunt in RSA?".

In good hunting.

This thread started nine years ago when the dollar got you 6.5 Rand.

Today it is 12 Rand per dollar and the sky is the limit! Safaris costs will be falling to the floor!

quote:

Originally posted by GunsCore:
This thread started nine years ago when the dollar got you 6.5 Rand.

Today it is 12 Rand per dollar and the sky is the limit! Safaris costs will be falling to the floor!

The rand hit a high of 11.5 in Dec 2001, a low of 5.1 in Dec 2004, a high of 9.9 in Feb 2009, a low of 6.9 in May 2011 and now another high.

The sky is the limit? Maybe there will be another low in 12 months time? The outfitters invariably take the risk on the currency and cherry picking a rate from the past doesnt mean very much.

quote:

Originally posted by GunsCore:
This thread started nine years ago when the dollar got you 6.5 Rand.

Today it is 12 Rand per dollar and the sky is the limit! Safaris costs will be falling to the floor!

It is not going to happen!

I remember when the US dollar was equivalent to 6 Zimbabwe dollars.

The Zim dollar has been buried so deep it might be worth 0.001 US$, but prices have not gotten that cheap.

I was being a little sarcastic, but obviously much too subtle. The favorable exhcange rate will have a positive impact on reducing or keeping down safaris costs to SA and Namibia for those of us who use the US dollar. It will be tough to measure, but it will be there. This will come from the strength of the US dollar due to the great leadership of President Obama (sarcasm alert) and that other non-USA hunters will see a material increase in their costs to go hunting leaving operators with more unsold hunts to unload.

[/QUOTE]The same thing happens in Namibia. Just ask what the local hunters pay for game animals. In Namibia the price is per Kg.of dressed weight regardless of the sex or trophy quality. The same is true in RSA. ..[/QUOTE]

really ?

Still bargain in Africa
Go anywhere else and you get one animal for minimum of $ 5-7 grand
Saeed is right, it don't make much difference
Just go hunting boys

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Les,

When the dollar was 10 Rand, we were told that the prices had to go up, since they were paying for things in hard currency and dollars cost more, so...

Then the dollar went down, and they told us that prices had to go up since the dollar just didn't have the buying power it once did.

It's basically a game of 'soak the clients (especially Americans)'. I won't have it.

George

With so many hundreds of southern African outfitters you'd think that the ancient rules of Supply & Demand would easily take care of over-pricing?? So either the southern Africans are able to buck these time-honoured rules OR they have somehow managed to organise a massive, co-operative cartel?

Which one do you think it is?

There is definitely a case of "Soak the Americans"in some countries.

A friend of mine hunted in a west African country last year. He found out that the French clients on the exact same hunt paid far less than he did.

That I agree Larry
Some of my friends from Europe pay less and I hear from them that " Americans can afford more" including tips.
Of course nobody says it out loud

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
There is definitely a case of "Soak the Americans"in some countries.

A friend of mine hunted in a west African country last year. He found out that the French clients on the exact same hunt paid far less than he did.

There is a dual pricing structure.

American hunters are often viewed as idiots bearing gifts - paying more than european hunters, having different tipping schedules ect.

I also bet you will see every euro denominated hunt go up for american hunters.

10K euro hunt at 1.40 rate = 14K dollar hunt

somehow will become a

14K euro hunt at 1.00 rate = 14K dollar hunt ( yes i have a view Uncle Draghi is going to take euro to parity).


American hunters have all the downside of dollar depreciating and all the downside of the euro depreciating at the same time.

We are idiots bearing gifts.

Mike.

Today, one U.S. dollar would buy 0.922 euro
... which means a 10,000 euro hunt is now $10,844.
... and this means that Mike's prediction of parity is about to become a reality.

Bill Quimby

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:
Today, one U.S. dollar would buy 0.922 euro
... which means a 10,000 euro hunt is now $10,844.
... and this means that Mike's prediction of parity is about to become a reality.

Bill Quimby

Have not made a dime on the euro going to parity. I suck - I should have acted when I swapped dollars at 1.38 a year back. Like I said I screwed up.

Will be interesting to see if we as American get to see the benefit of a strong dollar. European guns and optics should be 30% cheaper - lets see if the price comes down.

I am thinking of buying a place in Portugal - quick way to EU visa and that has attracted some international money.

Mike

Took four out to dunner last night at Stellenbosh in Windhoek. Steaks, several bottles of wine, after dinner drinks (several followed by several more) and the bill came to a whopping $120 US. Would have been 5 to 6 times that in the States.

Loving the exchange rate at the moment.

In regards to hunting fees, the more you know, the more you can negotiate. Hunters are not exactly falling out of the trees at the moment. Supply and demand.