Ok, some of you will make fun of me for asking this. I want to hunt in Africa within the next year or 2, for Cape Buff. I am not really interested in antelopes. I also watch National Geographic on TV, and they tell me THERE ARE BLACK MAMBAS and spitting cobras in Africa!!! One bite and you are dead kind of thing. I can stand in front of any animal and shoot, quite calmly, but put a 6 foot diamondback in front of me (had that happen many times) and my heart stops. But on the videos, I see PHs walk around in shorts and tennis shoes, seemingly without a care in the world for creepy, crawly creatures. So, really, what is the danger, if any, from snakes? When I was stationed at Ft Stewart, there were snakes everywhere, rattlers, copperheads, corals; we never had a snakebite but had to medivac soldiers from the field for fire ant bites several times. Are they really dangerous, or just not common? That is one good thing about Iowa; we only have garter snakes.

dpcd,

There definitely are snakes in Africa that can kill and/or severely injure you but you just don't run into one very often. If you hunt during the southern African winter june-Aug you might never see one. August onward you may see a snake occasionally but I have not found them to be any kind of an issue. It sounds like in your personal past you have seen snakes far more often than I would expect you to in Africa.

Interetingly the trackers will probably be much more afraid of snakes than you will so they will see them way before you.

Mark

I'm a neophite at it with only about 60 days in the field in southern Africa during May thru August. So far I've seen 2 snakes. I have a different reaction to seeing them, but am just as opposed to being bitten as you, and am actually (perversely) just a little disappointed I haven't seen a mamba yet. I believe the literature accentuates what could be rather than probabilities, which I'd say are very low. Go and enjoy. You'll be 3rd or 4th in line behind trackers and PH. They bear almost all the risk, whatever it is.

Went over in May of '07 (need to go back soon). Saw 3 snakes in 10 days. One was a small harmless one I would put in the garter snake category. One was a relatively large spitting Cobra, and the 3rd was a puff adder that we flipped back out on the road, and proceded to reduce to no longer being a hazard.

I have seen only two snakes: a puff adder that I wanted to get a pic of and a dead cobra that Paddy Curtis shot in camp in 2009.

Mark is right; the trackers really hated that snake.

I like reptiles in general and snakes in particular. I hunted Botswana and the Caprivi in July/Aug of 2009 and was quite disappointed that, despite actively looking for them, I only saw one snake, and that was one of the burrowing, earthworm-like blind snakes.

One thing is for certain: my next trip I will pare down my clothing and gear considerably from what I took that time, but I will add one essential item to my kit...at least one large, lifelike rubber snake! I only wish that I had thought of it for the last trip.

John

I have been over 16 times . I would imagine I have seen less than 20 snakes. I have personally only seen one mamba and that was 20 years ago.

Don't worry about them.

Snakes are like enemy ambushes, they never attack the first one in the column. But that is a good thought, I will be 4th in line...And cobras can spit venom 12 feet and mambas can crawl 15 miles an hour. yikes. Note to self; do not go with guys from Canada carrying rubber snakes.

Been over there five times and have seen two mambas and one spitting cobra, all on the same trip (late November). Snakes are scarier than buffalo and elephant!!!

Never saw a snake until my 11th safari. He dropped into my lap while riding in the open toyota. In a matter of seconds, he was the sole occupant of the toyota. Haven't seen one since. Did have a game scout freeze in front of me in knee high grass. After 20 seconds he turned around and we retreated. He had seen a snake ahead of us. This was on the same safari in the Selous in 2001.

only snake I saw was about eight feet long....

On the bright side of all this bad news is that no one has said (yet) that anyone was bitten. I assume that if a hunter was bit, he would be toast out in the field. right? By "toast" I mean, coming back to the States in a box.

Wasn't there a story in a recent "Hunting Report" about an American being bitten on the foot by a snake laying under his bunk? He survived.

That's why I always scan with the surefire before swinging the feet out!

405wcf

I have never seen a snake in Africa in 8 Safaris. Of course, I am not disappointed about that either!

The only snake I ever saw in eleven weeks in the field hunting and a couple more touring national parks was a black mamba.

It was crossing the road in front of the Land Cruiser, was about eight feet long, and its head was about waist high. I was a little reluctant to get out of the vehicle for some time afterwards.

Two puff adders in the same day in Zim on a June hunt. Then next day did the obligatory four position crawl while stalking a kudu that we never got. My PH almost died from a puff adder bite several years before. Flew himself to a hospital, stayed several weeks, lost finger and a few other problems. Admitted to "Playing" with the adder before it hit him!

Yeah, I was fourth in line on the 45 minute crawl and did not care which one I was it was emotional! Strange thing PH never had any inclination to kill the two adder we came across.

Here is my take on it. I have beeen on several safaris and have observed several poisonous snakes on each. Before each, I have asked about bthem to my PH's. Each replied that It would MOST UNLIKELY that I would see a snake let alone a deadly one. I belive , and I have discussed this with others, that some PH's may downplay this as it could stop someone from booking OR possibly keep someone that was already uneasy from haveing a pleasant safari. I do not know but this could be a possibility. In my limited experience, I have observed cobras, mambas, and other assorted vipers as have others in camp at the time. Myself, I would not be overly concerned with this issue but would always be aware of your surroundings and be cautious and all should be OK. I should also state that I have enjoyed every minute of every safari !

I have only been to Africa once, that was to Namibia. Apparently my trip was an exception. I hunted ten days and saw three snakes. A desert cobra, a puff adder and a slim, green tree snake about four geet long that my PH referred to as a boomslang. It sure looked like the pictures in my guides. I found all of them interesting. Danie did not. I really wanted to keep the puff adder skin, even volunteered to skin it myself, but he would have none of that. I'm a biologist, so I tend to look for things like snakes, so see more than most folks. Cool stuff that added to my trip. Never felt there was any danger.
Bfly

they are out there.

killed this black mamba in Botwana( and saw 2 others plus a puff adder and a cobra. the PH i hunted with in Tz. had been bitten in his cabin while napping during midday earlier in the season- by a spitting cobra. last Oct i was third in line while tracking a buff when i spotted a 12-13 foot python that the tracker and PH HAD WALKED RIGHT BY AT LESS THAN 3 FEET. NEVER assume someone else will see them first. at the same time, chances are good that nothing will happen. as an aside, i seem to be a snake magnet, having been bitten by a rattlesnake in my garage 2 years ago. fact remains though, i have seen at least a dozen poisonous snakes over 9 safaris.

My first safari was to Namibia last May/June. I hunted with Antonie Louw (great guy btw). We saw several horned adders and quite a few mamba tracks.

My buddy became visibly nervous whenever we saw the mamba tracks, and eventually asked Antonie, "What happens if I get bitten by a mamba?"

Antonie said, "We'll get you to the shade fast."

My buddy looked at us quizzically and asked, "What does that do?"

Without missing a beat as he trudged through the scrub and thorns, Antonie said, "You won't die hot."

Sounded like a old joke, but my buddy turned ghost white, and I tried not to let him see me laughing.

During 8 weeks in Zimbabwe in 2 separate Safaris.......one Puff Adder,lying fat and sessile across our path;one Green Rock Python, a bonus on a lion stalk and one dead Black Mamba on the road near the sugar cane of Chredzi. During August of 2010, in my driveway just south of Great Falls ,MT........four Prairie Rattlers on my 2300 walk with my Labs,all ,thankfully ,noisy,and now dead.

Go to Africa .......its more safe than home.

Black Mamba

Ten safaries, sasw one snake, a puff adder. I have his skin. Is
fear of snakes genetic?

I have been hunting since I was about 8. I am now on the north slope of 50 and have only come close to having an issue with a Puffy once and had a black mamba almost come up over the hood while driving through very high grass.
We have seen a good few snakes over the years, but from a good viewing distance

I hunted in South Africa's Limpopo province in 09 and we saw a huge probably 9 foot long rock python that was dead.
In 2010 in Botswana we were trying to get on a group of eland the last day of the hunt. We came across a puff adder that measured about three feet. It seemed to really spook our tracker and after this it was pretty much game over.

I'm like Indiana Jones---I hate snakes!

Setting: Ikuria Block, Selous, TZ, Tracking Buff through waist high grass.

PH Pauses.

Me: "Whats the matter?"

PH Terry: "Snake."

Me: "What kind?"

PH Terry: "Who gives a sh*t? Lets go the other way."

I'm not pretending that I know the numbers, but I have to wonder: How many visiting hunters in Africa are unfortunate enough to be snake-bitten?

Now how many suffer heat stroke/exhaustion, have their planes go down on the way over, are injured by other wildlife, have heart attacks, are mugged in town, get malaria or tick-bite fever...you get the idea. Let's not scare away potential African hunters with fears of improbable dangers.

I'll bet that most of those here who have seen lots of snakes were there during the African summer. If you're really worried, then go during their winter. Virtually no snakes, and the bonus of far fewer bugs.

It's supposed to be an adventure!

John

First trip to Namibia - June - 2 snakes. One killed by other hunting party (species unknown) and one cobra killed by the trackers at a cattle water trough. The cobra was thrown into the back of the truck, and when I was about to get out of the "safari seat", it was writhing under my feet in the bed of the truck. Being the "hero" I am, I decided discretion was the better part of valor, and exited over the side.... (Snake was dead, but it seems it was moving due to some nerve reaction).

Only other snake I have seen was a puffadder crossing the road on which were walking. I only saw the "non-business" end of that snake, yet the PH noted my downcast eyes for the remainder of that day On the same hunt, the camp staff reported seeing a black mamba in camp. Blessedly, I did not run into said camp inhabitant...

My PH on the Natal trip told me he was on the road with the back of the "bakkie" full of camp staff. Saw a large branch in the road and ran over it. At which point the "branch" metabolized into a HUGE, pissed off black mamba. Its head came up to the height of the back of the truck, but luckily it did not strike at the people in the back! That must have been a tense moment, staring into the eyes of a dissatisfied mamba thick as a leg...

In the US (MT), I was hiking out of a dry watercourse, and just as my head reached the upper lip, I stared into the eyes of a coiled-up prairie rattler, rattling away about 10" from my face... Not a good feeling, and I reacted with a very un-manly sound... Fortunately, I have never run into any of the really big rattlers they have in the Southern US...

- mike

This cape cobra was sunning himself in a bush along side the trail; 5' away at eye height when standing on the bed of the bakkie. Its head got bashed by the PH once I shot it. The 2 trackers ran off a good ways. Reflecting on the situation afterwards made me thankful I wear eyeglasses. First week in September in Namibia.

dpcd,
You are 100% correct in worrying about the Black Manba. It is truly one of the nastiest snakes around and very aggressive. They are mainly found in the Kwazulu Natal in South Africa. If you get bitten by one of these, dont worry about trying to get back to the truck. They are not found in areas like the Eastern Cape, Limpopo and Western Cape of South Africa.

This is one of the reason I keep anti venom...

Best Regards
Marius Goosen
KMG Hunting Safaris

quote:

Originally posted by KMG Hunting Safaris:
dpcd,
You are 100% correct in worrying about the Black Manba. It is truly one of the nastiest snakes around and very aggressive. They are mainly found in the Kwazulu Natal in South Africa. If you get bitten by one of these, dont worry about trying to get back to the truck. They are not found in areas like the Eastern Cape, Limpopo and Western Cape of South Africa.

This is one of the reason I keep anti venom...

Best Regards
Marius Goosen
KMG Hunting Safaris

Marius, Sorry but my sources says that black mamba most definitly occur in Limpopo, much of Boptswana and Nambia, even Gauteng, North West and maybe even in the costal parts of the Eastern Cape. But I agree, not in the true desert parts nor in the Western Cape.

For many the good news is: You can most definitely be saved from a bite by black mamba. The snake's poison is DEADLY if not correctly treated, but with simple first aid and some really good hunting buddies or knowledgeable PH, you can be saved very reliably. How come the apparent contrast?

The poison of a black mamba is a neurotoxin that quite quickly affects the nerves that pace your breathing and heartbeat. Now if one stops breathing you die! If ones heart stops beating you die! If both stop you are dead! So the untreated bite is absolutely fatal.

Question that should come up in your mind now is: “What about CPR?” Here is where a knowledgeable PH and or good hunting buddies and organization ability comes in: If the people who were with you can keep you blood reasonably oxygenated by mouth to mouth breathing and keep a reasonable circulation going by heart massage – chest pressure, you will definitely not die! The poison ONLY affects the nervous system and makes your heart stop beating and makes you stop breathing! It does no other harm of any importance whatsoever! The nerve 'damage' is also reversible: Take away the poinso, and the nerves function again. Normally.

So if you can be kept alive by CPR for the time it takes to get you to a heart-lung machine in a hospital no other treatment is required. Here keeping the patient calm, rested and other common sense first aid requirements makes it easier to keep the patient alive. After quite some time, a few days (?) the effect of the poison is worn off and you will be right as rain again. [Except a very sore chest from all the heart massage and clapped lips from all the kissing by your buddies during CPR. These are the main reasons for getting the bitten patient to a heart-lung machine ASAP.] The poison does some other nerve effects also, so the patient will look very dead, but keep the blood reasonably oxygenated and reasonably circulating, and he/she WILL be OK, well after quite a long while!

I hope that not a single one of the AR members who reads this ever needs to remember it. But if you, or your buddy, get bitten by a black mamba please remember it and make your PH promise that he will not give up on you – at least not until rigor mortis has properly started, in which case it was not a black mamba that bit you.

Black mamba bite is absolutely fatal if not treated correctly, but of almost nil danger if you happen to be very close to a properly functioning heart-lung machine. You DON’T need antivenin! If, as you will be in the bush, you are not near a heart-lung machine, you only need a team of people who will be prepared to continue CPR for a few days if required, and then YOU WILL SURVIVE with no after affects worst than a very sore chest and clapped lips!

In good snake free hunting.

Andrew McLaren

FWIW, There's also considerable evidence to suggest that venom (chains of protein) can be rendered ineffective by braking up those chains with electric shock from HT leads (petrol engine) or other electrical source such as a cattle prod or one of the electric shock chappies.

I have to say, I never understand why so many people feel the need to kill snakes in the bush, which is, after all, their natural environment in which we humans are trespassing.

I understand killing them in the house or the camp but not in the bush.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Ok, some of you will make fun of me for asking this. I want to hunt in Africa within the next year or 2, for Cape Buff. I am not really interested in antelopes. I also watch National Geographic on TV, and they tell me THERE ARE BLACK MAMBAS and spitting cobras in Africa!!! One bite and you are dead kind of thing. I can stand in front of any animal and shoot, quite calmly, but put a 6 foot diamondback in front of me (had that happen many times) and my heart stops. But on the videos, I see PHs walk around in shorts and tennis shoes, seemingly without a care in the world for creepy, crawly creatures. So, really, what is the danger, if any, from snakes? When I was stationed at Ft Stewart, there were snakes everywhere, rattlers, copperheads, corals; we never had a snakebite but had to medivac soldiers from the field for fire ant bites several times. Are they really dangerous, or just not common? That is one good thing about Iowa; we only have garter snakes.

During my safaris in Namibia and Zimbabwe I have seen several snakes, mambas, cobras. None attacked me - they just slithered away.
Cheers, Hans

dpcd,

I hope the photos in this article don't derail your safari plans, but if you will read the text, you can find several ways to minimize your risk as well as what steps to take for first aid, types of venom, etc.

A snake bit client is virtually unheard of, but since you have a phobia about it, I recommend that you get a pair of reputable snake proof boots and carry on with your safari without further worry.

Since most safaris in the countries of the Southern African region take place during their winter months, chances are good that you will never see any snakes at all.


Poison in Paradise: Dealing with snakebite on Safari


Here are two articles on a couple of common African poisonous snakes: the famous black mamba as well as the lesser known, but deadly, twig snake.


Black Mamba: Lethal Legacy

Twig Snake


While we are at it, you might as well find out about scorpions as well. The article does not address it, but the size of the tail and pincers indicate the potency of the venom. I can't remember off hand, but I'm sure one of the forum members can tell us.


Scorpions

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
FWIW, There's also considerable evidence to suggest that venom (chains of protein) can be rendered ineffective by braking up those chains with electric shock from HT leads (petrol engine) or other electrical source such as a cattle prod or one of the electric shock chappies.

Steve,

I did a quick literature review on this subject a year or so ago. The idea that electric shock can treat venomous bites seems to be based on folklore from the 1940s. Guderian, Mueller, and Osborn published anecdotal reports in the mid 80s and early 90s suggesting some benefit.

More modern medical studies indicate a lack of effectiveness and potential significant negative effects including cardiac arrhythmias, burns, and tissue damage. In the last few years the only significant published article I ran across was on the lack of effectiveness rather than the positive effectiveness of this treatment. The only positive (again mostly anecdotal)articles and reports seem to be written or circulated by the device manufacturers who benefit personally from product sales and not from unbiased researchers.

More in-depth or lengthy literature review will probably identify more positives and negatives comments; however, I concluded from what I found and read that the procedure is ineffective, possibly harmful, and the time spent on electrotherapy could be better used getting the victim to medical care and anti-venom.

tygersman,,,Antonie told me the same thing,, but with one addition,,, cross your arms like you want them to be. He and his kids killed a huge mamba by a bunker blind I had hunted in numerous times. I will be hunting again there this July and we definitely do not play snake pranks. I also am deathly afraid of snakes,, I have run ins with many snakes here in texas, copperhead and rattlesnakes the worst but I usually have more confrontations with large chicken or rat snakes that are non-poisionous. I had a huge one get under my feet on floorboard of tractor this past year,, apparently it liked the warmth of the motor for a bit untill it got under my FEET! I didn't know my tractor had an autopilot! It drove itself for sometime before I took care of the snake and caught up with the tractor.

My point,, no one is any more scared of snakes than me,, but I continue to go to Africa. The snakes in Australia are probably worse or as bad but I went there as well.

As Andrew said, CPR is the only effective treatment. Doing CPR is very fatiguing and will definitely be your only option if bitten in the bush by the mamba, like at Antonies in Namibia you are a long drive from any help, you will have to tag team the CPR, after several hours everyone will start to get arm cramps, it is harder than it looks, getting certified in CPR for 10 minutes work is much different that a 24 hr stretch,, tell your buddies to get the trackers to do the chest compressions and have your buddies do the mouth to mouth,, you probably know their HIV status,,, oh what the heck,, you are dead without the help, take what you can get.

I have never seen a live snake over there yet,, I have seen their tracks in the sand,, when it heads to the blind,,,,,time to let the tracker store your gear! If you think elephants and giraffe zebra etc., blend in well,, so do the snakes.. be aware just not paranoid. I don't fish in the middle of a thunderstorm and I give all snakes avoidance if possible,, you are more likely to get hit by lightning than you are to get snake bit if you hunt in their winter season. Thats what they tell me when I am keeping my eyes peeled open to find them.

I find it interesting that some folks who go to Africa to hunt DG find snakes so scary. The reality is that although you need to pay attention to your surroundings and especially where you put your hands and feet, the danger of snakebite is pretty low compared to other hazards.

I saw a large Forest Cobra when I was in Zim last August and it was one of the high points of my hunt.
I have a field biology background and did quite a bit of work with rattlesnakes in graduate school so my perspective is probably a little different. I enjoy seeing all different kinds of animals when I am hunting and that includes snakes. Of course I don't want to get bitten any more than anyone else and try to watch my surroundings closely when in the bush. For those who don't want to see snakes I think the suggestion to go in the winter is a good one.

Oday,

I'm no scientist but there appears to be no doubt that electric shock breaks up chains of protein and as I understand it, venom is basically chains of protein and my friend the vet, tells me it's common practice out here to (successfully) treat snake bitten pets & livestock in that manner.

Lane might be able to shed more light on it though.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Oday,

I'm no scientist but there appears to be no doubt that electric shock breaks up chains of protein and as I understand it, venom is basically chains of protein and my friend the vet, tells me it's common practice out here to (successfully) treat snake bitten pets & livestock in that manner.

Lane might be able to shed more light on it though.

I am not a snake bite specialist...but...I believe the electric shock therapy has been pretty much proven to be useless and dangerous (can cause arrythmias).

Anti-venom is the only treatment specific for snake bites that actaully has any effect on the venom.

All other treatments...albeit necessary...are adjunctive and symptomatic. IE: CPR - not breathing and heart not-beating...perform CPR...until transfer to machines.