quote:

Originally posted by SG Olds:
This farm raised, free range chicken hunting will be the club the antis beat us with.

Yup!

I tell you what Old SB...comon to Texas and I'll show you a hunt. You will need a good pair of boots and plenty of fluids to keep up. Oh by the way you better be able to climb and shoot as well.

Paint it with a wide brush

What is it that seems most bothersome about all this? The fact that it was raised in captivity...or the fact that it's the new RW #1 common Nyala.

I'm guessing the latter, correct?

I'm humbled still by my #2 Mt. Nyala, but if someone offered me a chance to get the #1 Mt. Nyala that had been raised partly in captivity, I wouldn't shoot it for all the money in the world.

Here's my take. I can accept the fact that he shot it. It's the fact that it's the new #1 that bothers me. When this young man gets older, he'll likely see how hollow his #1 ranking really is.

If he changes his mind can he de-list the entry from the record books? I think that would be the proper thing to do down the line.

What's bothersome is that an animal in captivity with the proper nutrients will grow horns that will far outsrtip any that it could have grown in the wild. That in itself should preclude it from any book. Then the fact that all you have to do is rattle the feed pail and shoot the poor thing-a stark contrast from actually hunting it on its own turf.

nope it's not hunting-I do like Sayeeds stance about "shooting pets" It pretty much puts it into perspective for most of us.

the chef

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I have a friend who has never been to Africa.

In fact, he does not hunt at all.
But, he likes animals, and I have given him a whole stack of them.

They include sable, kudu, waterbuck, zebra, buffalo, impala mounts to display in his house.

Walter spent some time with him to "teach him about HIS trophies"

Walter, in his own inemitable way, gave him all the rong names.

The kudu became the waterbuck. The waterbuck became the sable etc.

One day he had a big dinner party, and I was invited.

Walter and me were laughing so much which he was tellign stpries of how he shot HIS sable - pointing to a waterbuck.

The good thing was that the guest he was talking to has no idea about the animals either!

After that we asked him to coming along with us to Africa.

"You must be JOKING! Spend 3 weeks with you and Walter in the middle of the bush in Africa? No thanks

That's a great stunt.

I must have read the article 3 or 4 times to make sure what I was reading was correct. I can't understand how a pet can now become the #1 Nyala.

What is equally disturbing is how many "shooters" wanted the Nyala knocked out and measured before committing the money to come and "hunt" it. That is what is even more depressing.

Just don't understand how you could enter that animal in a record book and hang it on your wall.

quote:

Originally posted by Redmouflican:
I tell you what Old SB...comon to Texas and I'll show you a hunt. You will need a good pair of boots and plenty of fluids to keep up. Oh by the way you better be able to climb and shoot as well.

Paint it with a wide brush

"Climb"? Texas? "Climb"???

Got to agree, "Canned Hunts" are sized, primed and loaded ammunition for the Anti's.

As if this nyala issue is not bad enough, I am led to believe that a new record leopard recently shot in Namibia was, and I quote "was a tame cat that was sold after the owner died. He was nearly too fat to climb a tree"
Anyone else picked up on this?

No but we apparently know some people who wud have ran out and clubbed the Leopard to death to be #! !!

On behalf of Rowland Ward I would like to clarify how we accept entries into the Record Book. As we are primarily interested in the animal we accept all those that meet our minimum standards including those that are shot, picked up and found in museums. We assume the animals are shot with a rifle otherwise we specify bow or handgun. We mark those that are picked up, found in museums and those that are malformed (i.e. where a horn or tusk has grown in an unusual way). While we do not specify how an animal must be hunted, we are concerned about the nature of the hunt and feel strongly about discouraging types of hunting that are unacceptable or detrimental to the long-term sustainability of sport hunting. As such we do not accept any lions shot in South Africa at this time.
We are custodians of a wonderful database of measurements of animals recorded since 1892 primarily for the interest of the sport hunter and the scientific community. We discourage competition as this is not only inappropriate but is also not conducive to preserving this wonderful sport for future generations.

quote:

We are custodians of a wonderful database of measurements of animals recorded since 1892 primarily for the interest of the sport hunter and the scientific community. We discourage competition as this is not only inappropriate but is also not conducive to preserving this wonderful sport for future generations.

Jane,

Welcome to AR, and thank you for clarifying this point for those who were not aware of it.

Your above statement is pure class, and should be remembered by all hunters.

Sadly, we have far too many so called "hunters" bragging about "mine is bigger than yours"!

And the encouragement they are getting from orgenizations such as SCI is very sad indeed.

Welcome & well said Jane!

But what you say about not registering ANY South African lions raises another problem that stems directly from these practices:

I can understand that Rowland Ward needs to apply such drastic measures as they clearly cannot be expected to know everything, both good & bad, that happens in a particular country, so in the case where there is a predominance of bad practices their only recourse is a blanket ban.

But at this year’s PHASA Wildlife Heritage Fund Raising Dinner there were free roaming lions on offer donated I think by the Madikwe Reserve. They fetched very good prices and as such directly contribute to conservation through the cause which the dinner supports. I would wonder if the American clients on whose behalf the local outfitters were bidding were aware that, should they be lucky enough to manage to shoot a qualifying specimen, they would not be entitled to enter it in RW? You can see the cause being supported and the auction list here: PHASA Initiative

One thing I often wonder about (and this is purely speculation) is the degree to which some of us believe that these practices really fuel the anti hunting brigade in a meaningful way. The fact is the majority of people, and in particular the poorer 3rd world majority, really are neutral to disinterested in these issues. There is no doubt the vast majority of ACTIVE anti hunting people are from the advantaged western 1st world urban sect. They carry influence not by their numbers, but by their privileged status which affords them a voice. I don’t know if they would be satisfied with any form of hunting no matter what the “ethics” applied happen to be. They preach to their disciples in appropriate media just as we are often inclined to do in our “pro utilisation” preaching. Both sides mostly preaching to the converted so to say!

No one seems to mention the "PH" who is happy to pocket the cash from this,,um.... ah.... adequate words fail me....... He must be so proud of his achievements.

I am sure that most of the animals that the collectors(Well said Saeed) have shot with this guide?/? Sorry cant call him a professional! They were probably all shot under similar circumstances.
Damn I wish I had a better command of the english language!
These are the guys that are damaging the future of our sport the most.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stephen Palos:
Welcome & well said Jane!

But what you say about not registering ANY South African lions raises another problem that stems directly from these practices:

I can understand that Rowland Ward needs to apply such drastic measures as they clearly cannot be expected to know everything, both good & bad, that happens in a particular country, so in the case where there is a predominance of bad practices their only recourse is a blanket ban.

But at this year’s PHASA Wildlife Heritage Fund Raising Dinner there were free roaming lions on offer donated I think by the Madikwe Reserve. They fetched very good prices and as such directly contribute to conservation through the cause which the dinner supports. I would wonder if the American clients on whose behalf the local outfitters were bidding were aware that, should they be lucky enough to manage to shoot a ...


Stehen, a few years back we accepted a wild lion shot in one of the reserves bordering the Kruger Park (legally hunted) and we would definitely consider one which was hunted in Madikwe. By the way I spent some time there recently and saw some wonderful males.
Just about all the applications we get for lions are from the Free State and Northern Cape. I hear more arguments these days in favour of shooting bred lions as this takes the pressure off the wild lions. There is some merit in this but the current circumstances surrounding the raising and shooting of bred lions are not acceptable and that is why we will not add them to our records.

Jane,

You are welcome in my camp any day.

Andrew.

Hello Jane. Welcome to the forum and hope you're well?

Welcome Jane, you are a breath of fresh air....which we all seem to need!

Jane,

you forgot to state that RW will not be accepting this animal for the record book due to its harvest status .

That would do the trick...

Rich

AMEN!!!!