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I just came across an interesting shooting school. Look up www.indianheadranch.com for details. Looks like a 5 day deal, lots shooting and instruction and a little Texas hunting too. Just thought it might be of interet to someone. Remember, forgivness is easier to get than permission. | ||
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$2700.00 for 6 days of "experience" , 2.5 days of teaching and the rest to shoot a doe or ewe???? They have to be smoking as much as they can get across the Border. You can do a 7 day RSA hunt for not much more and have a real experience. Where do these guys dream up their pricing structure. If you bought 500 rounds of your favorite ammunition and went shooting you probably would be a better shot and cost you a lot less. Apply the difference to a real hunt and you just get her done!!!!! square shooter | |||
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I hunt at and book for Indian Head. It is a nice operation, but it may not be the school for you. If you want a really intensive shooting school, I would recommend Gunsite's General Rifle or Hunt Prep classes. | |||
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what makes any shooting school worth $1000.00 per day.??? Serriously,hell I can do 2-3 anesthetics for Medicare open heart surgeries and won't make 1000.00. Honestly, some of this crap is rediculous!!! A full 33% of all of the cases I do are for FREE! I make a good living but some of this is pure B.S.!
square shooter | |||
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I have been to Gunsite for the one-week basic rifle course, also I took my wife to Front Sight for their two-day rifle school. I am going back to Gunsite this spring to check out their hunter prep course. These rifle schools are definitely worth their hire. I don't know about Indian Head (to check it out see if their instructors are Gunsite grads, or the equivalent). You don't need to shoot an animal in your training, but the hunt is probably fun. What you get from these schools is a perfect technique or manual of arms for your hunting rifle. You are not going to get this by shooting at your range or reading a book. You need to learn it under close supervision of a good instructor. Once you have acquired the skill set, then perfect practice will indeed make perfect. All the PHs I have hunted with in Africa have complimented me for my ability to deliver the shot in timely fashion. I thank Jeff Cooper and Gunsite. jim if you're too busy to hunt,you're too busy. | |||
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I have no truc with the idea of a shooting school. I think that $1000.00 is rediculous. Hell I can get David Tubbs to coach me and it won't cost that. Good expeerience is good experience. The price of that experience is in question after it ain't rocket science. square shooter | |||
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Lb404, Here's a pricing analysis. this. $2750 divide 5 is $550 per day less say $125 a day for room and 3 meals. Your are now at $425 a day divided by 8 is $53 an hour. If you have a 3 student to instructor ratio that's $153 per hour for the price of the instructor. In a professional services business you generally need about 3x markup over wages but give all the extra costs of that operation especially liability insurance a 4x mark up would be about right. So 153/4 is $38.25 an hour x 2000 hours a year gives you an instuctor wage of $76,500 if that instructor is booked every week of every year. So the number ain't that outrageous. Now you may not think its worth is bust the price is about right. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Lets analyize. If you are an experienced hunter, your money might be better spent on a 5 day pure shooting school..... But lets say you have done no or very little hunting/killing of game.... 6 nights of room and board with up to 11 other people with the same intrests as you: say $150 a day, total $900. 2.5 days of shooting instruction, even figuring $50 an hour, total [20hrs] $1000. 2.5 days of guided hunting, with a RIFLE INSTRUCTOR, even figuring $50 an hour, total $1000. Total so far $ 2900. Add the kill fee and meat prep and it does not look like a bad deal to me for a NEW or fairly new hunter. No matter how much professional shooting instruction a person gets it is not the same as actual field hunting experience. With this "school" you get both. Think about it.... Dale Ernheart does not need drivers ED..... But it is a good thing for new drivers.  DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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If David Tubb taught yoou to shoot, you would roll up to the firing line wit your little gear cart. The range master would announce your two-minute preparatory period had begun. You would be wearing a heavy shooting jacket and many other widgets. Then you assume your postion and fire when the line goes hot. If Gunsite teaches you to shoot, the PH says "Take him!", you reply "Bang", and the animal drops. It is not the same thing at all. But suit yourself, I know if I see the animal I can hit it, and do so quickly. jim if you're too busy to hunt,you're too busy. | |||
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I am scheduled for a 3 day safari prep school for 650.00. This school is in north texas and is taught by a certified Gunsite instructor. Sounds pretty good to me. Sprig Rose lipped maidens--light foot lads!!! | |||
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I guide Mule Deer hunts out here in West Texas. After what I saw this past season I'll gladly support any bonified effort to educate hunters in the following areas: 1) Mechanical / practical working knowledge of their rifle, especially the optics! 2) Ballistics; bullet drop and windage out to say, 400 yards. E.g. build a data card over the course of the class for the hunter's rifle. Something similar to what tactical marksmen use, but in this case insted of MOA gradations, it would be a "hold-over" chart in inches. Simple and effective. 3) Shooting from various positions including the use of sticks / various types of resting devices. 4) Animal anatomy: ehphasis placed on knowing "Kill Zones" on popular game animals. 5) Clothing 101: What to wear for every type of weather - yes, I have had to loan various bits of my personal gear to hunters forever! 6)"Buck Fever" counseling sessions... Sort of a "12 steps" to calmness beind the trigger when the bigg'n steps-out into view. "Take a deep breath" NO JOKE! 7) Rough scoring: Nothing funnier than a guy calling himself a "Trophy" hunter and he can't even get within 30-40 in of rack size estimation of an animal standing 200 yards away! Would help eliminate "Ground shrink". 8) Basic gun safety, safety, safety! I have thrown people off of the ranch for unsafe weapons handling. Irregardless of how much somebody is paying for a hunt, endanger me or any of my clients and you are gone, pronto! I know I might come off sounding like a cratchety old pain in the ass, but the fact remains: Proper knowledge of what you are doing is essential if you truly want to be successful in hunting. Those "know it all" boneheads that wound, mame and otherwise give hunting a bad name are everywhere! I love guiding folks and have had the best times of my life with clients. However, the sport is experiencing an influx of novice shooters that need educating. Hat's off to anybody that wants to improve the quality of the participants in our endangered sport! I hope they get rich! Jeff | |||
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I might be interested. Please private message me on details. | |||
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That is the kind of situation I am looking for. I would like to take my wife and spend a weekend on a shooting course like that. Can you share the contact information with us? square shooter | |||
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The school is Texas Pistol Academy east of Mckinney Texas. www.texaspistol.com. I heard about them at the Dallas Safari club. Came highly recommended. the owner is robert Duhon. You can learn about all of the instructors on the web site. Sprig Rose lipped maidens--light foot lads!!! | |||
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Very few of us are "new hunters" and possibly only need a refresher course. There are only 2.5 days of instruction the rest is fluff. If you do it right, one shot one kill fills in the rest of the time and I do not need a guide, they may want me to spend the money for one though. The going rate for the Mansion Deal Rio "Bush White House, San Antonio" is $175.00 per day budget room. I do believe in education. How many times have you taken the Hunters Ed course????? I have taken it 5 times, on average every 4-5years. Usually with my children or close friends/relatives. Do I need it every 5 yeare=== no, is it a bad idea====no, but it doesn't cost $3000.00 either. I will warrant that the instructor is not spending 8 hours in a day with you and $30.00 per hour is a good wage. My wife is on the open heart team and has 20+years experience and doesn't make 150/hr. Hell neither do I most times. Are you equating a shooting specialist with a XXX weeks course in riflery with someone who has a 4 +++++++++++ year degree and umpteen years experience 8-12 hr.s a day 5-7 days a week. I think you lack perspective. No malice intended but I think you are out of touch with reality. square shooter | |||
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Thanks Neighbor. I will contact them this week. I have a new Mauser rifle comming in 10.75x68 and I want my wife to learn to shoot it well before Zambia. This looks like a perfect opportunity to brush up. square shooter | |||
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lb404 If you read my post carefully you will see I stated that an experienced hunter would be better served with a shooting course that did not include the hunting. I know a lot of experienced hunters that cannot go prone and hit game at 300 to 400 yards, or make a snap shot at 75 to 100 yards. A "shooting" school would help these "hunters" out. For a person who had little or no hunting experience the combined course would be a good thing. I never quoted a figure of $150 per hour. My "labor" rates were quoted at $50 per hour. Look at the price for most shooting schools for a 5 day school, then figure in room and board. The prices on this school are not out of line. I have no intrest ,nor do I know any thing about this school. I will say this is the first "school" I have seen that offers both shooting and hunting instruction. If all the hunting you have ever done is set in a deer blind, it just might be worth the money. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Thanks, I was refering to Mike D's comment about three students per instructor and that is 150 per hour. Not to mince words. I just don't see the value. I imagine the the school is not at maximum capacity all the time which is the true test of relevance. Out! square shooter | |||
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Hey, there are guys that show up on 21 -28 day safaris that have never been hunting before and that don't know how their $100K rifles work. Their costs for a little experience is chump change for these guys, if they would ever use it. ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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I'd rather go out and bust a goodly number of feral game for fifty bucks, the price of the fuel to get there, and self-guided, self-camping. | |||
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I think it is foolish to call BS on something you know nothing about. And anyone who thinks they know it all is the biggest fool of all. As a writer, I get to go to shooting classes all over the country. I practice religiously and shoot pretty well, but I learn something from every one. | |||
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greg-r,Ain't it amazing how many more horses asses there are than there are horses! You are assuming again and that really makes an ASS out of you not me. You obviously recognise your weaknesses and play to them. I, too, learn as I go. The price I pay for that learning is for me to decide. Are you saying that you are a know it all and therefore a FOOL! I was stating an opinion-you are attacking personally. Not too cool! Do me the courtesy of disappearing. square shooter | |||
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Guess I was lucky, my dad taught me how to shoot(not spell) when I was a kid so it comes with ease to me. Its probably the only thing in life that seems natural to me, I cant even catch a ball we were at the range the whole time. sorry about the spelling, I missed that class. | |||
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My post was not an attack on anyone, although I stand my by my assertion that know-it-alls are the biggest fools. I did not accuse you of being one, but you clearly took it that way. Not my problem. My original point was that in your first post, you called such schools BS without knowing anything about them. As to being a know-it-all, I think it was clear in my last post, you know, in the part where I write that I learn something from every class I take, that I am far from it. Disappear? I think not. | |||
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Tiger Valley Tiger Valley in Waco has precision rifle course aimed towards the shooter who desires to improve his skill at the 50-300 yard range. Price is 350 for 40 hours. I do not think they cover snap shooting though. | |||
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Never said the school was BS if you can read, only the Price. As you can see by the other posters, there are several option that do virtually the same thing for far less. The hunting part of the school you were discussing is a way of their earning money on top of the original objective, you remember ? Learning to shoot better not culling a ewe or doe axis. And is still stand by your own conviction that know it all's are fools a position you mirror well! Ropes, thank you for your input on Tiger Valley. I e-mailed the folks at the Texas Pistol Academy in McKinney that bullsprig suggested. I will also contact the folks at Tiger Valley. My wife is also going on the Safari in Zambia and I would like her to get some field instruction by other than me. We both shoot well enough but I am no means a master at all field shooting techniques. I too, will go for refresher and for the fun of it. square shooter | |||
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Looks like this in conjunction with Thunder Ranch. Paying for name + ? lb404, I never ceased to be amazed at what value people place on some things over others. Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
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My wife and I booked with Texas Pistol Academy for a weekend session on field positions. They want us to shoot 300 rounds of ammo each in that time frame. 300 rounds of 375 H&H in a day sounds brutal. The wife is shooting her 300 H&H . I have to produce 600 rounds of big bore rifle ammo in a week and a half. We will see how it works out! square shooter | |||
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I've spent several thousand dollars over the years on various firearms-related courses. I've never regretted one penny of it, or one second of the time. (And I'm not wealthy, or self-employeed-- these courses were expensive by my standards, in both money spent and vacation taken.) You can learn a lot more from a few days in a good course than you can from years of hunting, in my opinion. Gunsite and Insights Training Center get a big thumbs up from me. Insights is more self-defense oriented, but their training is excellent. These courses are always a heck of a lot of fun, too. | |||
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All this talk makes me curious as to how qualified any of these instructors are at shooting dangerous game, or do they just have a line of BS that impresses a newbie... I know some of the self defence schools are held by a bunch of idiots that would want their mommy if they ever got shot at, Heck the instructors at FBI school are a joke......... Just curious...If I wanted to know how to hunt Africa, I sure wouldn't pick Gunsight, Id go to RSA or Zimbabwe and enroll in a PH school, like Johann Calitzs at least he has shot a few buffalo and Cooper of Gunsite probably hasn't shot enough buffalo to be an expert...... I kinda like Lb 404 on this, I take most of that with a grain of salt, and I may be wrong. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Anything that can help a guy to shoot better is a plus, whether it is a formal DG hunting course, participating in Hi Power competition, rabbit hunting, or dry firing at the tv set. | |||
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No problem with getting more experience, getting morr istruction, getting more familiar with the art and science of hunting and gunning. My statment was directed to the cost aspect of the education. The price quoted by the originator was, IN MY opinion, too high for a couple of days of instruction. Could be that the money could be better spent actually shooting targets. At least you would be pulling a trigger and trying to hit stuff. The rest of the time at this particular school would be spent with a guide hunting a cull animal. I think I will save that part of the money for Africa. square shooter | |||
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104 I gather you liked Robert at Texas Pistol. He came highly recommended by alot of folks who have been to Africa alot. Bullsprg Rose lipped maidens--light foot lads!!! | |||
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Bullsprig, I enjoyed talking to him on the phone, Sue and I are shooting with him next weekend if I can get enough ammo loaded for our two rifles. Holy $hit, 300 rounds each in a day!!!!! square shooter | |||
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lb404 You might think about getting a couple of 308's for you and your wife for Robert's school. Then duplicate what you have learned later with your 375's. 300 rounds of 375 a day, pretty brutal. Let us know what you think of his school. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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IB404: Most schools require that you use factory loaded ammo. I'm not sure about the one you're going to. I also recommend taking 2 rifles, shoot the 375 for a few shots, but take a 3-08 or 22-250 or something like that for the brunt of the shooting. I've been to several self defense pistol schools, and I think anyone that carries should go to at least one. My wife went to a hunter prep school in 2000, while I was taking a pistol school; I thought the hunter prep school was maybe OK for complete rookies. My wife used her 30-06 for the first day, but she had to switch to 22-250 after several boxes of 30-06. JD | |||
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Been to Africa 3 times. Never had a shooting lesson, never been to a pre-hunting shooting school and never had a hunting lesson. Only shot whitetails from a stand before going and got every trophy I was after. I don't think I am the exception to the rule. Anybody who pays someone else to teach them to go on safari has more money than sense. The old saying still holds....."A fool and his money are soon parted". Or as W.C. Fields used to say..."Never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump". DC300 DC300 | |||
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Now that's a voice of wisdom. NOT. PS Anesthesiologists are grossly overpaid.   xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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I received my best shooting lesson last weekend wounding a 1500 pounds water buffalo !!  Next time I'll not be hunting a buff, I will be hunting a buff SHOULDER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  | |||
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