I was going to go on an Elephant hunt this year. I live in Washington State and the IDIOTS here have Banned importation of Elephant period. So now I would ONLY get to bring pictures home. I am now rethinking the Hunt. Maybe a Double Tuskless instead? What are your thoughts?

Personally, I say non-trophy bull. One may not have big tusks, but you can still experience getting up close/personal with a big bull elephant.

For me, I found the tuskless hunt to be less than I had bargained for - I much prefer hunting bulls, but that's just my personal opinion.

Good luck!

Nothing more exciting . . . or dangerous . . . than hunting elephant cows in the thick stuff. For me, I would go with twice the experience and hunt the tuskless.

Do you mean the state has banned all ele importations?

I think I would move

My vote is for the non exportable bull ele. Contact Karl Stumpfe/Ndumo Safaris. He hunts the Caprivi strip in Namibia.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...591008981#1591008981

As the late Greg Rodriguez once said to me about tuskless hunts: "when it's time to take pictures you'll have a small elephant with no teeth on the ground."

Personally, the only way I'd hunt a tuskless is if it was a secondary animal on another hunt. Of course, that just my opinion and it's your hunt and your $$ so spend it on what you want.

quote:

Originally posted by Labman:

As the late Greg Rodriguez once said to me about tuskless hunts: "when it's time to take pictures you'll have a small elephant with no teeth on the ground."

I knew Greg and it was tragedy he died so young . . . that said, if that is a person's view of what makes a proper elephant hunt, they would be better off just to stay home.

Agree with Mike....to me, the "trophy" of an Elephant hunt is the hunt itself. The hunting skill to hunt a cow, trophy bull, management bull, or a tuskless Elephant is the same. If anything, a cow is much warier than the average bull. I would rather invest in 3-4 non-trophy (mgt-cow-tuskless) hunts than one Trophy Bull hunt.

Having to sort a tuskless out of a heard has the makings for great adventure. I found it great fun in the thickets and the Vlei. It isn't an easy hunt. Closing on bulls seems to be much less dramatic.

If you have hunted elephant before, you know what you want to do.

If you haven't yet, I would try the bull first. You would have to be more selective, as the first tuskless cow you see without a dependent you shoot. The bull will require getting close and assessing it to ensure its what they want shot. The tuskless hunt can occasionally end up with a firefight if the herd corners you and you have to shoot your way out of trouble.

Also, while folks talk about the danger...and the desire to have it, I don't think most really want that. Yes, tuskless is more dangerous... You should see the elephant, so to speak before going in to a risky situation.

I personally have little desire to shoot cows. I have done it, but it was more a mercy killing than anything. That is just me, and a tuskless is a controlled cull basically, so it's not like it endangers elephant numbers, so it's not a matter of ethics.

Tuskless is a recessive gene, which means the calves can have tusks if the bull had them, so while the gene is one that would be better off being diminished, it still is a selective culling method, suitable for reducing population pressure mainly. Bull hunts have no real effect on breeding, and minimal on populations.

So if you want to experience classic elephant hunting, I would say do the nontrophy bull. If you want an adrenalin hit, the tuskless would be a better choice for you.

I've done both and I have to say I liked the thrill of hunting a big bodied bull. But..cows in the Jess in Northern Zimbabwe is awesome too.
One key thing you said however is key to me.
That is DOUBLE Tuskless vs a Non Trophy bull!
I would say I would rather get Double the Fun and hunt Multiple Tuskless bs just One non trophy. That would sway me maybe. One for One...I say Bull for sure. Two for One? Tempting my friend...

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Do you mean the state has banned all ele importations?

YES, Thanks to Paul Allen's Billions!!! He bought and paid for the Bill. I heard 6 Dollors per signature for the Bill(Microsoft Founder and the Owner of the Seahawks and Trail Blazer) One catch in the Law thou. It's OK to import Elephant parts if it is in a Musical Instrument. It was a DEAL worked out with the Seattle Symphony!!

Slider,

I have to agree with Greg's and Aaron's statements. I have not hunted tuskless and I have no desire to. I'm sure it is a thrill a minute and I know it's dangerous as can be. IMHO though it just is not a proper elephant hunt where a non-trophy is in every respect except the bull just won't have big ivory.

Mark

I have hunted bulls and cows in different categories. Trophy bull, tuskless, ration and own use. All were fun and exciting.

I have used the heart/lung, frontal brain, side brain and front shoulder shots. I am not a fan of the heart/lung shot as, unlike the others, there is a lack of immediate gratification as the Ele drops to the shot. I always try to get as close as possible - 15 yards was my best approach before being "made" and forced to execute the frontal brain shot. And yes, I have taken Ele charges. An Ele charge is a phenomenal adrenalin dump, but requires standing your ground and reacting coolly under pressure. They can move ungodly fast.

I have used a .375H&H (not enough gun IMO), a .458Lott, .458B&M and a 500NE double. The .458s are definitely enough gun but the 500NE DR is a classic Ele rifle and really whacks them; the visual impact is readily evident.

Hunting any Ele is still a thrill for me and I do love it so. Am hoping my next one will be a Forest Elephant, if we can find one in the rain forest.

Good luck to you and whatever you decide will be the thrill of your hunting life!

eh, I don't think 1401 had anything to do with legal importation at all. It was a ban on the sale of elephant et al.

Where did you see legal importation was banned?

I would choose a double tuskless.That said,I think some double tuskless hunts are priced too high.If that were the case I would go for a double buff hunt.

You may be right? I'll check into it.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Personally, I say non-trophy bull. One may not have big tusks, but you can still experience getting up close/personal with a big bull elephant.

For me, I found the tuskless hunt to be less than I had bargained for - I much prefer hunting bulls, but that's just my personal opinion.

Good luck!

We have always hunted bulls.

The tuskless cows were target of opportunity, and I have shot quite a few this way.

I found actually hunting bulls was much more exciting.

We have had tuskless cows chase us in thick bush a number of times though.

I guess it all depends on how one views a hunt and what one is looking got get out of said hunt.

If one is looking for the maximum true elephant hunting experience, then the double tuskless. If one is looking for the most danger, then double tuskless.

Me personally, I want to track elephants as much as possible. I would pick the double tuskless.

On second thought given a very good area where plenty of good bulls are still around,a good tracking hunt for a lesser bull could be much better than a double tuskless hunt.

I have hunted trophy bulls and cows. I have not hunted a non trophy bull.
I would suggest you get a copy of Buzz Charlton's first video, "Hunting the African Elephant" and watch it a couple of times. For me, the tuskless hunts have been more adrenaline soaked, but the bulls somehow more gratifying. I recommend both.
Perhaps you should consider a combination hunt, non-trophy bull and tuskless? I shot a bull and tuskless in 2014, and it was the best of both worlds.

quote:

Originally posted by Slider:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Do you mean the state has banned all ele importations?

YES, Thanks to Paul Allen's Billions!!! He bought and paid for the Bill. I heard 6 Dollors per signature for the Bill(Microsoft Founder and the Owner of the Seahawks and Trail Blazer) One catch in the Law thou. It's OK to import Elephant parts if it is in a Musical Instrument. It was a DEAL worked out with the Seattle Symphony!!

What's to stop you from having tusks shipped to a taxidermist in another state and going to pick them up in your own vehicle? Who's to know if you disobey a stupid victimless law?

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I guess it all depends on how one views a hunt and what one is looking got get out of said hunt.

If one is looking for the maximum true elephant hunting experience, then the double tuskless. If one is looking for the most danger, then double tuskless.

Me personally, I want to track elephants as much as possible. I would pick the double tuskless.

+1 on what Larry said.

I would take the double tuskless hunt in a second! You will have an amazing adventure.

In the rainforest I promise you will shoot closer!best ele hunting ever!
QUOTE]Originally posted by LionHunter:
I have hunted bulls and cows in different categories. Trophy bull, tuskless, ration and own use. All were fun and exciting.

I have used the heart/lung, frontal brain, side brain and front shoulder shots. I am not a fan of the heart/lung shot as, unlike the others, there is a lack of immediate gratification as the Ele drops to the shot. I always try to get as close as possible - 15 yards was my best approach before being "made" and forced to execute the frontal brain shot. And yes, I have taken Ele charges. An Ele charge is a phenomenal adrenalin dump, but requires standing your ground and reacting coolly under pressure. They can move ungodly fast.

I have used a .375H&H (not enough gun IMO), a .458Lott, .458B&M and a 500NE double. The .458s are definitely enough gun but the 500NE DR is a classic Ele rifle and really whacks them; the visual impact is readily evident.

Hunting any Ele is still a thrill for me and I do love it so. Am hoping my next one will be a Forest Elephant, if we can find one in the rain forest.

Good luck to you and whatever you decide will be the thrill of your hunting life![/QUOTE]

quote:

What's to stop you from having tusks shipped to a taxidermist in another state and going to pick them up in your own vehicle? Who's to know if you disobey a stupid victimless law?

I too am curious why you couldn't go on a road trip to pick up the ivory out of state and drive it back.

quote:

Who's to know if you disobey a stupid victimless law?

Quite likely the people from USF&W and others who are lurking on this site.

One doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to monitor incoming trophy shipments and there is a high probability that those containing ivory are flagged.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Who's to know if you disobey a stupid victimless law?

Quite likely the people from USF&W and others who are lurking on this site.

One doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to monitor incoming trophy shipments and there is a high probability that those containing ivory are flagged.

It is likely a felony. If so, get caught and:

1- No more guns.
2- Professional licenses gone (in most places)
3- Possible jail time.

The list goes on and on. Not a chance in hell I would do it.

I'd go double tuskless.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Who's to know if you disobey a stupid victimless law?

Quite likely the people from USF&W and others who are lurking on this site.

One doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to monitor incoming trophy shipments and there is a high probability that those containing ivory are flagged.

It is likely a felony. If so, get caught and:

1- No more guns.
2- Professional licenses gone (in most places)
3- Possible jail time.

The list goes on and on. Not a chance in hell I would do it.

. . . plus no more trophy importation under the rule given to us by Dr. Palmer.

No way I would play fast and loose with the rules . . . once authorities starting looking at you for one thing they start curry combing your background for anything and everything they can find in your taxes, business dealings, etc. to charge you with.

Shoot the two tuskless then and send a letter to Paul Allen saying you shot two elephants instead of one because you couldn't import thanks to his stupid law.

I just googled the topic and I see nothing that prohibits you importing hunting trophies; all language I saw referred to the sale, distribution, etc. Nothing about legally hunted elephants.

Hello Slider-
I live there too....and I expect you know the history? Paul Allen tried to push this through the legislature and FAILED....so then he went the Initiative route and got all of the "feel good votes...and liberals of King County!!"
If you want more details, John Jackson III at Conservation Force reviewed this Initiative when I was trying to make it known. He can confirm if AZ Writer is correct on Import...and also I believe the fines are Misdemeanors ...NOT Felony as Larry suggested?? Again, JJIII can advise you....and I would make a donation for his feedback....he is worth his weight in GOLD to hunters!!
Both hunts are fun and I would do either....but If you take an Exportable Bull...I would NOT bring it into WA until the Legislature turns this over....and they will...BUT it takes two years to avoid the super majority requirement and the Dems will NOT let that happen, so 2 years and then it only requires a simple majority.
Interesting that it is enforced by WA DF&W and they have NO FUNDING to enforce this....so short of a major trafficking....it wouldn't get prosecuted...I would NOT take a chance!!
If you get a Bull, DON'T bring it into WA until this is gone....ship it to Oregon or Idaho and let it sit until the smoke clears...say with a Taxidermist you trust.
Just like I-594 imposed on WA Residents by BLOOMBERG!! No one will enforce and again I believe will be turned over....but not until 2 years goes by...and that is close now!! Second Amendment Foundation sued to turn it over in Federal Court...and they threw it out because no one had been harmed by I-594 YET!!
Good Luck on your hunt....go and enjoy yourself!!
Cheers,

a single tuskless cow in Zim costs only slightly less than an own use bull in the Caprivi( about +/- $1500-2000). For my money, I prefer to shoot a bull- they are just SIGNIFICANTLY larger. You still end up following/tracking mixed herds with belligerent cows( as well as batchelor herds). Just ask my wife about the numerous mock charges we had last June while attempting to sort out an own use bull we were after. We also had a mock charge from another huge bull after I dropped mine. In the hunting report pictures I see here of tuskless cows- well, they just look small.

quote:

470EDDY

I talked with 4 WA.Fish and Game officers yesterday at the Sportsman show here. They are unclear about importing Ivory into Washington now and directed me to the Feds?

Wow! What a nightmare for a trophy hunter. Killing a large bull elephant is a one-of-a-kind experience for most hunters with modest means.

Losing out on this chance by the dim-witted politics of the Demi-crats is a crying shame.

I expect this situation to get worse, unless the GOP can gain more leverage in Congress and the White House.

I would probably try and shoot a couple of nice buff, provided the area has some nice bulls. Could you kill (and import) a male lion or leopard? They would also make nice trophies and I believe a lion should be about equal in price to an elephant I would guess.

Bad situation all around.

Good Luck!

BH63

Slider,
See what I mean!!
Feds have nothing to do with enforcement of WA Law, you have to have a CITES Permit and remember Obama has a ban on Imports of Elephant from certain countries, ie Tanzania for one...I think Zim as well...so the only place you can really bring one in from is South Africa and Namibia...until Obama and his Exec Orders are gone...assuming a Republican win!!...if not, all bets are off and our Second Amendment Rights are at stake too!!
Cheers,

I would go for the bull, chasing a big bodied namibian bull would be awesome, never fully understood the logic behind hunting tusk less

Sliders Predicament is brought on by none-only than the Seattle SEAHAWKS and Portland TRAIL BLAZERS ..and Microsoft co-founder [B]PAUL ALLEN!!
PAUL ALLEN is ALSO responsible for closure of Botswana to Elephant Hunting!! He was able to convince the President that his Eco Lodges would generate MORE revenue for Botswana than HUNTING!!
Botswana is suffering already....and considering reopening of hunting to fund their Conservation Programs!!
So when rooting for NFL SEAHAWKS.....remember....their OWNER is ANTI-HUNTING...and also brought the legislation to Washington State that covers over "trafficking" in 9000 species .....which is a HUGE OVER REACH and RIDICULOUS legislation!!

Cheers,

I started out hunting tuskless, three of them, but had a real desire to hunt the bigger bodied bulls. Hunting the cows is scarier, having elephant on three sides of you trumpeting and raising sand will test your medal. But there is something special about seeing a BIG track and following it till you see this HUGH bull and you walk up to within 20 yards. On a non-trophy bull, a lot depends on your outfitter. If they are willing to hunt for a really old bull and not shoot the first small tusk bull you see, it is a great hunt. Last year I hunted the Nyae Nyae in Namibia with SMJ Safaris, Stephen said we were looking for the "perfect bull", old with small or broken tusks. We looked over 55 bulls in 6 days before we found that special one. There was two days we could have shot a non-trophy bull but Stephen said no, it was not the perfect bull and we kept on hunting

quote:

Originally posted by Indy:

quote:

Originally posted by Slider:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Do you mean the state has banned all ele importations?

YES, Thanks to Paul Allen's Billions!!! He bought and paid for the Bill. I heard 6 Dollors per signature for the Bill(Microsoft Founder and the Owner of the Seahawks and Trail Blazer) One catch in the Law thou. It's OK to import Elephant parts if it is in a Musical Instrument. It was a DEAL worked out with the Seattle Symphony!!

What's to stop you from having tusks shipped to a taxidermist in another state and going to pick them up in your own vehicle? Who's to know if you disobey a stupid victimless law?

With all due respect my friend, that is exceedingly stupid and dangerous advice. Breaking the law (assuming it is) is never the answer. Yes, you may get away with it, but if you are caught, besides a large fine and possibly some jail time, it is a lacy Act violation which can be a felony. In that case you could lose your right to ever own a firearm.
Transporting animals across state lines when in illegally taken or in violation of state laws is a Lacy Act violation. Just ask those that have illegally killed a bear in Alaska and transported it to the lower 48 and got caught!
465H&H