Due to the recent closures on elephant hunting in Botswana
and the current incessant poaching in Zimbabwe and other similar
situations occurring in Mozambique and Zambia, I was interested in
hearing from people with knowledgable perspectives on the future of elephant
Hunting
At this point I am at a crossroads to make a decision on whether or not to go this year after a Bull
Not quite the right timing financially so I would appreciate input from those of you with a thorough understanding or opinion of what is going to happen in the next several years

Thanks

Rory

If you can afford it, go now. It will only get more expensive as more countries follow suit and either shut down or raise trophy fees!

Doubt it will get cheaper. I understand your feeling. I felt the time crunch on hunting Lion and made that happen in 2012 even though it was far more money than I ever dreamed of spending on a hunt.

Any regrets?

NO!!

CMSafaris.com

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
CMSafaris.com

February 2015

I get asked this question often by clients and hunting friends,
Elephant hunting prices have sky rocketed on the back of the temp closures in Zambia and Botswana
I emphasize the temp side of this , I remain optimistic that hunting will return to Botswana for elephant.
There is even a very loose rumor that elephant hunting in some form or another could happen in Botswana this year or early next year.
I think that any elephant hunting in the meantime will be at all time premium rates, so I would hold back for after the madness , after a brief closure one can expect the hunting to be even better. For this reason I strongly recommend hunters get onto waiting lists with your preferred Botswana and Zambian outfitters in the meantime.

Personally……….. I would go when I could afford it as opposed to when it is most convenient. Africa changes quickly and one really never knows where things are going to be at in a couple of years.

Too many variables and too much politics to be sure of anything.

Just an opinion from an outside observer here, but, and I am not up to date on the situation with lions, I believe if lion hunting gets shut down, that between the anti hunting forces and the general instability of African governments, outlawing elephant hunting will be the next battle.

As has been pointed out in other discussions, the anti's do not care if they have to get hunting stopped one species at a time. Lions and elephants stir some of if not the most intense emotions in humans and their feelings about those animals.

Lion is no farther gone than ele. We have not lost the battle there.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Lion is no farther gone than ele. We have not lost the battle there.

Lane,

Did I miss USF&W's decision on a listing? I don't recall seeing anything.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Lion is no farther gone than ele. We have not lost the battle there.

Lane,

Did I miss USF&W's decision on a listing? I don't recall seeing anything.

No...just saying we have not lost the battle.

http://www.huntingreport.com/c...ion_force.cfm?id=305



Paragraph 2 of the below bulletin could have a huge impact on U.S. citizens hunting elephant.



Unintended Consequences May Arise from Presidential Executive Order to Combat Wildlife Trafficking
Written By John J. Jackson III, Conservation Force Chairman & President
(posted December 2013)

On July 1, 2013, President Oba-ma issued an Executive Order to combat wildlife trafficking (www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/01/executive-order-combating-wildlife-trafficking). Its stated objective is to control international wildlife poaching and trafficking. To implement the Order, the President created two bodies, a Presidential Task Force on Wildlife Trafficking and an Advisory Council that will work together to implement an effective National Strategy on Wildlife Trafficking (www.fws.gov/international/pdf/filed-charter-2013-advisory-council-wildlife-trafficking.pdf). While this was a welcomed action that should afford greater wildlife protection from unlawful taking and trade, we expect the action to cause a litany of headaches for governments that need and rely upon sustainable use of their wildlife resources and for the hunting community nationally and internationally. Already, too many recommendations are overreaching and require close scrutiny and participation.

On October 7, 2013, a strange mix of organizations sent Recommendations to the Presidential Task Force on Wildlife Trafficking. The objective of those recommendations is “to prevent poaching, disrupt trafficking and to curtail demand.” The very first recommendation, 1.a, is alarming. It is not aimed at poaching. It is aimed at lawful hunting and legitimate hunters. It calls for a 10-year or longer moratorium on legal trade of both rhino horn and ivory!

1. Reduce Demand for Illicit Wildlife Products a) Establish and implement a domestic moratorium on the import, export and sale of ivory and rhino horn products (including pre-Convention and antique specimens) in the United States. As a priority objective, a US moratorium would serve to: (1) reduce demand for rhino horn and ivory, (2) reduce illicit trafficking in rhino horn and ivory by removing parallel legal and illegal markets and the resulting opportunities for laundering of illegal wildlife products and (3) provide an example that encourages other countries to take similar legal and regulatory measures….Other important consideration under a moratorium are how to best address hunting trophies and the problem of “lookalike,” which allow traffickers to claim that illegal products (such as African and Asian elephant ivory that resembles mammoth ivory) are legal or regulated. We recommend that trophy imports be limited by criteria designed by the Administration to most effectively promote the conservation of elephant species, while sales of ivory from trophy tusks, whether current held in the US or imported in the future, be included in the ivory sale moratorium. We further recommend that regulatory measures are established to address the “lookalike” problem. (Emphasis added)

Other subparts of that very first recommendation call for the USFWS to “(b) Publicly destroy government seized elephant ivory,” and that “(c) the US Department of Education to integrate wildlife trade issues in school programs, by means comparable to drug education programs” and “undertake an intelligence assessment in the US and abroad of (1) the challenges posed by parallel markets for legal and illicit wildlife products….”

The mix of organizations submitting the recommendations is alarming in itself. While submitted “jointly,” the recommendations “do not in all cases reflect consensus opinions.” The list of “contributing” organizations includes Born Free USA, Defenders of Wildlife, Environmental Investigative Agency, Humane Society International, Humane Society of the United States, International Fund for Animal Welfare (IFAW), et al. as well as the less onerous World Wildlife Fund (WWF, who is said to have hosted the meeting for the letter of recommendations), Wildlife Conservation Society, The Nature Conservancy, TRAFFIC, African Wildlife Foundation, Association of Zoos and Aquariums, et al. No hunting organization is listed as being invited or “contributing.” We wonder if this “joint” letter was fully authorized by TRAFFIC, WWF, et al. We find the mixture of organizations strange in light of the tone of the first listed recommendation. Nevertheless, the emergency listing of the southern white rhino as “threatened” on July 11th as a “lookalike” is concerning. We have sent a Freedom of Information Act request to USFWS to obtain the correspondence between Law Enforcement and the listing office that was said in the published listing notice to be the cause of the action but with little explanation. We have no evidence at this time that there has indeed been a problem for Law Enforcement. Second, we filed comments opposing the listing without more detailed reasons for the lookalike classification and suggested adopting a Special Rule to dispense with or at least issuing a statement that enhancement findings will not be necessary for import of southern white rhino from Namibia and Zimbabwe (on Appendix I). Enhancement findings are notorious for adding expenses and delay or being a complete barrier to import permitting. The Federal Register Notice of the emergency listing does not address the enhancement finding issues for those rhino on Appendix I of CITES (Namibia and Zimbabwe) at all. USFWS has since informally told us that they will not require enhancement findings because the white rhino’s listing is based solely upon being a lookalike. The southern white rhino has a robust population that is still at record numbers at this time. Lookalike listings still cause us concern. What will be listed next?

I hope SBB is right on, that other recently-closed countries will re-consider their lost $$ and re-open for elephant. From all sources eles appear to be in good numbers ( in certain areas), not endangered overall, and like any other animal in competition with human habitation, and as an an overall renewable & sustainable resource, their numbers indeed need to be managed.

Even if there was no poaching (yah right), elephant as well as lion and many others are on the inevitable slide to less and less hunting. The reason is as simple as it is unstoppable. It's human population growth. Unless something "controls" human population, the trend is consistently more and more, so the future of hunting is limited. Go now.

quote:

Originally posted by Safaris Botswana Bound:
I get asked this question often by clients and hunting friends,
Elephant hunting prices have sky rocketed on the back of the temp closures in Zambia and Botswana
I emphasize the temp side of this , I remain optimistic that hunting will return to Botswana for elephant.
There is even a very loose rumor that elephant hunting in some form or another could happen in Botswana this year or early next year.
I think that any elephant hunting in the meantime will be at all time premium rates, so I would hold back for after the madness , after a brief closure one can expect the hunting to be even better. For this reason I strongly recommend hunters get onto waiting lists with your preferred Botswana and Zambian outfitters in the meantime.

+ 1

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
Even if there was no poaching (yah right), elephant as well as lion and many others are on the inevitable slide to less and less hunting. The reason is as simple as it is unstoppable. It's human population growth. Unless something "controls" human population, the trend is consistently more and more, so the future of hunting is limited. Go now.

Sadly, although your post will be viewed by many as negative and defeatist, it is accurate. Eventually, the very nature of the two beasts will confine them to government and privately owned parks and reserves, as the growing population takes over everything else. It is simply the way it is and radical changes in both thinking and policy on a global basis would need to occur to change the course.

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
Even if there was no poaching (yah right), elephant as well as lion and many others are on the inevitable slide to less and less hunting. The reason is as simple as it is unstoppable. It's human population growth. Unless something "controls" human population, the trend is consistently more and more, so the future of hunting is limited. Go now.

Sadly, although your post will be viewed by many as negative and defeatist, it is accurate. Eventually, the very nature of the two beasts will confine them to government and privately owned parks and reserves, as the growing population takes over everything else. It is simply the way it is and radical changes in both thinking and policy on a global basis would need to occur to change the course.

Yep...sad but true. We were all just born 50 years too late. Sad to view the world with wall to wall people. But...where we are headed.

quote:

Originally posted by Safaris Botswana Bound:
I get asked this question often by clients and hunting friends,
Elephant hunting prices have sky rocketed on the back of the temp closures in Zambia and Botswana
I emphasize the temp side of this , I remain optimistic that hunting will return to Botswana for elephant.
There is even a very loose rumor that elephant hunting in some form or another could happen in Botswana this year or early next year.
I think that any elephant hunting in the meantime will be at all time premium rates, so I would hold back for after the madness , after a brief closure one can expect the hunting to be even better. For this reason I strongly recommend hunters get onto waiting lists with your preferred Botswana and Zambian outfitters in the meantime.

I sort of wonder about that. In my experience it is always easier for the government to stop doing something controversial than it is to start doing something controversial. For Botswana, from a public perception standpoint, stopping elephant hunting is a lay up. On the other hand, to start up elephant hunting again will result in huge uproar (just look at the reaction to culling in Kruger). I am not arguing that the public policy rationale for shutting down the hunting is sound, nor am I suggesting that there are not good public policy reasons for starting it up again. I am just offering my view of the reality that getting politicians to do something is tougher than getting them to do nothing, hence, my concern that perhaps a restart may be a bit overly optimistic. Hope I am wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
In my experience it is always easier for the government to stop doing something controversial than it is to start doing something controversial.

Conversely, and I realize it's not exactly the same, it wasn't too long ago that Namibia closed cat hunting...and opened it back up a year or two later.

And another "simliar yet different" area, closed and now re-opened to hunting : the Save in Zim. Yes, the additional "rules" suck, but there are now eles back on quota, and hopefully even more in the future as the whole thing gets sorted out

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:
...
Eventually, the very nature of the two beasts will confine them to government and privately owned parks and reserves, as the growing population takes over everything else.
...

For the most part, this is how it already is. Most elephants are already in parks or reserves, though the reserves may be called or were until recently called "concessions."

JPK