all my life I have kept a round inn the chamber as that is the way my father taught me with safety on. in fact on the trip to the East Cape and the PH asking about my hunting experience he advised me to keep the gun loaded and on safe except when we were in the truck

Truth be told, the best way to be prepared is to practice and prepare for you hunt.
Meaning - know you gun, know how to use sticks, know your balistics, know your scope and know where to aim.
Further, know how to get a very quick and accurate follow up shot.

That is really being prepared.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Truth be told, the best way to be prepared is to practice and prepare for you hunt.
Meaning - know you gun, know how to use sticks, know your balistics, know your scope and know where to aim.
Further, know how to get a very quick and accurate follow up shot.

That is really being prepared.

Best advice so far.

And be prepared to shoot your first shot fast, and accurately, too.

I put concealed carry in same category. I do not carry with a round in the chamber.
My thinking--it would hurt just as bad if I shot myself as it would if someone else shot me. With a concealed weapon, I'm not going to win any fast draw contest--I'd already be toast, so the second or so to chamber a round would not be a factor.

I never encountered the empty chamber thing until I lived and hunted in the Western US. I can see how it works there as often you are hunting in open country at longer ranges were you get to take your time and the game has no idea you are there.

I grew up still hunting whitetails in the New England woods. If your chamber was not loaded venison was never going to be on your dinner menu.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
I never encountered the empty chamber thing until I lived and hunted in the Western US. I can see how it works there as often you are hunting in open country at longer ranges were you get to take your time and the game has no idea you are there.

I grew up still hunting whitetails in the New England woods. If your chamber was not loaded venison was never going to be on your dinner menu.

Mark

Which would also be similar to how one might have to react to dangerous game in self defense.

The best safety is your brain and own training. At least that’s how I operate.

Every situation is different. Every mind reacts differently. The synapses from the brain to the muscles are different for everyone. Hunting wild quail might be the most dangerous game, pound for pound. At the flush, one must take into account other hunters, dogs, handlers before the focus on the bird. A proper flush can be done with team work, as long as the birds fly where they’re supposed to fly. Well, reality is not always like practice. Shotguns with mostly open chokes at close range can be devastating more devastating than any NE round.

However, safety is always number one for me. I carry how I’m ready and trained for the situation. For the most part, it will be the safest for all around me. I don’t want to be told what to do outside my norm.

Your example of quail hunting is well taken. I’ve hunted those magnificent birds in Kansas with friends and family.

I was also a field trial gunner for Springer Spaniels in the AKC for 25 years, plus all of the training at home. I shot for my dog breeder 7 days a week during the summer, as he trained about 30 dogs each season. Each dog would get 2 birds/day, so I was shooting about 60 birds a day. One can’t help but have success rates on birds, shooting that much. We were extremely safe shooters and no one in all of that time was ever shot.

Field trial shooting is a different game from training, as there are a lot folks out there, and the opening is just a ‘slice of pie’ a lot of the times what with the gallery, competitors, judges, dog trainers, bird planters, and the occasional competitor coming over a hill, bringing his dog to the line. There is no room for error. I was luckily trained by a task master, my dog breeder, who was usually the head judge at the trials I shot. My best two trials were 90 and 91 birds killed with no problems, no birds escaped, at anywhere from 50-80 yds. I shot no one in 25 years of training and field trials.

I understand why PHs are nervous around inexperienced shooters on safari, especially right behind them. I would be too. He cannot know the experience, training or talent of his first time clients. A dangerous job.

Avid birdhunter and pointing dog trainer here. I have always hunted birds with a round in the chamber and have carried loaded side by side shotguns the past four decades. when on plains game safari I carried my Mauser 98 with an empty chamber until instructed to chamber a round by my PH. Not sure why I did, it just felt appropriate.

Started as a little kid, hunting birds with my grandad.

410 single shot shotgun.

Always loaded, and on safe.

I was told to keep watching that safety.

Still do.

In Africa, your PH will ensure your safety, and whilst I have numerous hunters such as Surefire7 whom I trust I need to know of the character behind me who is holding a loaded rifle and PH Stuart Taylor found out the hard way

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
In Africa, your PH will ensure your safety, and whilst I have numerous hunters such as Surefire7 whom I trust I need to know of the character behind me who is holding a loaded rifle and PH Stuart Taylor found out the hard way

I have been in situations, and my PH will tell you same, where both of us were needed to keep us safe. This being from cow elephant.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
In Africa, your PH will ensure your safety, and whilst I have numerous hunters such as Surefire7 whom I trust I need to know of the character behind me who is holding a loaded rifle and PH Stuart Taylor found out the hard way

I have been in situations, and my PH will tell you same, where both of us were needed to keep us safe. This being from cow elephant.

Understandable

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
I put concealed carry in same category. I do not carry with a round in the chamber.
My thinking--it would hurt just as bad if I shot myself as it would if someone else shot me. With a concealed weapon, I'm not going to win any fast draw contest--I'd already be toast, so the second or so to chamber a round would not be a factor.

The problem with no round in the chamber is that under a high stress situation most people would forget to chamber a round.
I cant count how many people ive seen forget to take the saftey off before shooting while bird hunting and that a low stress situation.

Fully loaded, with a round in the chamber, cocked and locked is the only way to carry.

But only in strict compliance with Col. Cooper's rules.

1. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you’re ready to fire.

2. Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.

3. Be sure of your target and what is in front of and behind it.

Otherwise, why bother with a gun?

quote:

The problem with no round in the chamber is that under a high stress situation most people would forget to chamber a round.
I cant count how many people ive seen forget to take the saftey off before shooting while bird hunting and that a low stress situation.

Not being able to find the safety while bird hunting would fall in the category of not being familiar with the gun in my books. If a person under high stress couldn't remember to chamber a round doesn't sound like they could make a well aimed shot either.

The cops in my city of 100,000 carry their semi automatic hand guns with a bullet in the chamber and no safety.

Having seen a South African guy who had just hunted with us and was heading home - accidentally shoot himself in the hip.

Sheesh. I prefer locked and loaded in my big rifles. But in my life time I have seen several rifles go off when the safety was removed. No hand on the trigger.

Remington Model 700's.

Scruffy, before you answered the question I was going to ask if they were Remington's.

The reason I don't like to leave an empty chamber is because it robs me of a round. The loudest noise is not a rifle going off, the loudest noise you've ever heard is a click when you've emptied the magazine on a buffalo that's not quite convinced he's dead. Did that in 2021. Fortunately, he went down and died anyway.

I think being prepared is also a mind set.

By this I mean if you know you might get into a hairy situation, as you follow a wounded dangerous animal like a buffalo or lion.

A fraction of a second delay can be fatal.

Luckily, all the lions I have shot died of the first shot.

Buffalo, on the other hand, I have had a few situations where I had to take a quick, close shot to finish them.

Quick and accurate shit placement is essential here.

And I think this only comes from a proper mind set to fit the situation you are in.

I agree with nearly all posts here.

As to being prepared...

I usually do not chamber a round when walking/tracking. Unless I have my Blaser.
I chamber a round when something is getting close, then double check the safety and my finger placement.

Now, in preparation for a safari - I will practice with my big rifle or other. I will shoot off hand and from a rest. I will dry fire a lot.

Then, for practice, I will fire two rounds in quick succession off hand at 50 yards working out to 100 yards. Then I will fine 3 and work up to 4.
When I hit a 12" target offhand with all 4 shots, I am ready to roll.

I start with a round in the chamber with the safety on, and the gun "at rest", sometimes over my shoulder. I will get the rifle up and on my shoulder, take off the safety and shoot. I work the bolt with eyes on the target NEVER looking at the rifle to where the empty cases go. I never take my eyes off the target.

You must be able to insert/work the bolt without looking at it. If you jam, you must know how to unjam and reload. I tell the PH, if I hesitate on the follow up shot for ANY reason - YOU MUST SHOOT!

The practice paid off for me on my first buff hunt with Dean Kendall.

I shot a buff square in the chest at 30 yards. He was dozing in the shade. At the shot, he bucked and came running right toward us - not a charge, just that we were in the direction he was facing.
I quickly fired a second shot and hit in a non-lethal shot just below the spine but above organs. I reloaded and fired a third shot at about 8-10 paces and missed. At that instant, Dean fired and hit the bull in the face and brain. It skidded up next to us at about 3 paces.

This was not a charge, just a buff running toward us.

Dean looked at me and said - "That was a bit exciting wasn't it?" The trackers were laughing. I was shaking and could not speak for a few seconds. My first words, if I remember correctly were, "I did not pay for this much excitement"....

Anyway, I was able to fire 3 shots quickly. If Dean had not fired, there was a slim chance that someone may have been hit by the buff.

By the way, my first shot took out most of one lung with damage all around it. My non-lethal shot would never had hurt the buff. Dean's shot scramble his brain.

To sum up. Be prepared. Be ready to shoot quickly and accurately. Tell the PH to back you up. Even on non-dangerous game that may cause a problem. Let the PH do his job.

quote:

Quick and accurate SHIT placement is essential here.--"Saeed"

And I think this only comes from a proper mind set to fit the situation you are in.

I think no matter how accurate you tried to place it, it would be in your pants.

"Mind set"

That is very important for me. I have the concentration span of a humming bird and I have to bare down to keep my mind in the present moment. That is half the fun of hunting buffalo. I have to get in the zone and stay in the zone. I love it! With the fear/adrenalin going, my sights get much steadier and I am much quicker. It's good duty for an old man.

When I am hunting with my single shot rifle that has a hammer, I can keep a round in the chamber, otherwise I don't chamber a round until I am starting the stalk, usually.

I agree that mind set is a key element of preparedness.

Of course, in hunting, mind set without a cocked and locked rifle is like sitting on the guard beam at a drag race with an empty tank.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I agree that mind set is a key element of preparedness.

Of course, in hunting, mind set without a cocked and locked rifle is like sitting on the guard beam at a drag race with an empty tank.

Exactly!

Walking into a hairy situation, thump safety off, finger on trigger, aim and shoot.

Anything else is not an option!

Ive never had the safety get knocked off in the bush, I also keep my thumb on the safety as we close in on DG, My safety and triggers are a tad harder to disengage on big bores btw..A 4 or 5 Lb trigger works for me on a big bore..a 3 lb. on a medium bore rifle and 2.5 on a varmint gun.