I'm just curious - am I the only one who hunted in my country long ago or are there any others with an Indian hunting experience?

Please tell us who dont know, what did you hunt?

Jip tell us, It should be very intresting

Hunted in UP State,Kumaon hills, area known as 'Ganga Paar', ie the other side of the Ganges. The blocks were known as Laldhang and Chilla.
Shot Chital. Sambhar, Leopard and wild boar.
Saw Tigress at Buffalo bait, from a Machaan.(in the 1960's).
More recently, have shot plenty of wild boar on the Goa Frontier on and close to friend's farms. Lamped a black panther that was stalking chinkara deer.
DJ.

Mehul,

Please tell us a bit about hunting there in the past. It has always been one of my dreams to hunt there. I am sure there are more out there that would love to hear about it.

I have never spoken with anyone who has hunted India. Other than the occasional magazine article, many years ago, or through the reading of Jim Corbetts' books, I have no knowledge of it, whatever. I encourage those that do to come share it with us.

[ 11-14-2002, 02:18: Message edited by: Nickudu ]

"Gone Are The Days" by Patrick Byrne gives some great insight to hunting India.

Jim

I have long been fascinated with the idea of hunting in India, particularly for tigers. Hey, a boy can dream.

Yes, I look forward to hearing about such...

DJ,

Good to know you have been hunting boar recently - it is one of the few animals we can hunt! And you actually hunted in the Terai - lucky man! I never could afford to hunt there.

Friends,

While I have accompanied friends on leopard hunts in the past, I have never shot one myself. My most exciting memory of a leopard hunt is of a friend who was attacked by one after he put two shots of 12 bore ball into it and went for him before he could reload. The break bore 12 became a club for all practical purposes and the leopard which was badly wounded, was shot by the elder brother of one of my closest friends who lives in the caribbean these days. My friend lost a huge amount of muscle tissue on his right arm and has not been able to use that arm fully since. This was about 22 or 23 years ago.

Tigers were a rarity even when I started hunting some 25 years ago and they are on the verge of extinction now. Tiger hunting was the preserve of the erstwhile royal families who owned large reserves which were taken over by our government.

I personally have "scars of honour" from a huge boar that I shot near a bungalow that my father used to own in the hill station of Kodaikanal - he took a small bit out of my right calf when I bungled a shot and he charged me running uphill. My father sold the property some years ago when Kodai became crowded with hotels every 3 feet and I haven't had the heart to go back there since.

On the plus side, recently, the Maharashtra government (near Goa where DJ hunts - for my non Indian friends) gave out 5 permits for hunting leopards and there is hope that Himachal Pradesh, another state which has a severe leopard overpopulation problem will do the same. Parts of India are also going to be opened for Nilgai hunting, but, as far as I know, non Indians will not be allowed.

Sadly, the good days of hunting and conservation in India are long over and no one seems to be interested in reviving this natural resource to earn money for my country!

Thanx for the info I hope things will improve and you get a system going like in RSA where private owners of land own the game on the property to look after them so that they grow in population.

I would love to shoot an Asian elephant in the bush.

Mehul,

Thanks for the info. It really makes me sad to think that a place that was once a great hunting destination has no interest at all in managing and reestablishing that resource. It is a place I have always dreamed of hunting.

Ah, India!! Wouldn't it be grand to be able to hunt there! It's a pity.

-Bob F.



[ 11-14-2002, 21:50: Message edited by: BFaucett ]

Rick,

You made me bust out laughing at work!

I had a female colleague when I was at the Univ. of Utah a couple years ago who was from India (cannot remember the exact locale) and upon seeing some of the hunting pictures in my office said "Yes, you should definitely come visit me in India and shoot Nilgai with my father and brothers!!!" I should have married that woman!!!

Rick,
VERY FUNNY!!!

Regards,

JohnTheGreek

[ 11-14-2002, 21:27: Message edited by: JohnTheGreek ]

Rick,

Brilliant!

500 Grains,

Not much elephant hunting took place in my country, probably our elephant don't have tusks as large as the African ones. The primary big game in India was the tiger.

Secondly, our hunting was an organised affair like a game shoot in England or Europe with beaters driving tigers towards shooters who sat on elephants. Bait was used only when a maneater was to be shot.

I also think that our game is not as tough as African game because ALL Indian game has been taken with 12 Bore rifles (Explora) and a huge number of tigers have been shot with the 303 British round with 215 grain bullets.

We have lions in the western state of Gujarat but not much lion hunting seems to have taken place here, though, the current Maharaja of Gondal losthis brother to a lion that they were hunting about 30 years ago.

Yes, I live in a desparately poor country and I keep hoping that the politicians here will wake up to common sense and start a proper game management programme!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mehulkamdar:
[QB]Rick,

Mehul,

Elephant were on the trophy list in India, in fact, as a kid, I saw the last great hunt/Cull for them in the Shivalik hills. I know in Central and Southern India they use the Kheddar operations to catch them.
Re 12 bores, I know they were used to hunt a lot of the game, but Mantons of Calcutta imported and made some very good weapons.
Double rifles, mainly the H&H 450/400's and the William Evans 500's were very popular. If you can, check out 'Himalaya Arms' in Dehra Dun, rumour has it he has a very decent H&H 450/400 for sale. (Hasn't been fired in years...no ammo).
The wild boar on the Goa frontier are reputed to be the biggest of their kind. I shall post you a couple of pics. I also have some close ups of Gaur, including a bull in 'musth'..wanted to turn our jeep over.
Mehul, I will be after the in jan next year, and will make contact when I am over.
DJ.

DJ,

There are a great number of lovely old big bore rifles rotting in gun shops in India. I saw a huge number of old doubles in Rusi Jijina's shop in Bombay a couple of years ago and the Calcutta shops had a great many good guns, but all the Calcutta shops are gone now and I don't know who bought their stock - it might be Tarachand Mehta (you might know him if you hunt on the west coast since he buys old guns for a number of British and European dealers) or someone like him.

If you plan on visiting India in Jan, do call me whenever you are free. My mobile number is 98410-73114 and my office numbers are (044) 4801001 and 4735017. If you visit Chennai, you MUST have dinner with me and my wife at my club!

Good shooting and I look forward to meeting you when you come here.

DJ,

As far as the Khedda is concerned, I saw the last one in Mysore in 1978. It was magnificent. The last I heard, the maharaja of Mysore was bankrupt and even had to sell a portion of his palace...

None of the big bore guns will be sold in India anymore because of the 8mm and smaller regulations. I can only hope that the bigger dealers export them and find homes for them in collections where they would be cared for.

It's sad, but inevitable considering the attitude that successive governments here have had towards hunting and conservation.

DJ

Come on man. Stop teasing. Tell us something about the hunts you did and some photos as well if you can.

An elderly gentleman in my local area hunted India in the good old days and some of the photos are fantastic. Tiger, sambar deer, leopard, boar etc - the skins and trophies nicely laid out.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by NitroX:
[QB]DJ

Come on man. Stop teasing. Tell us something about the hunts you did and some photos as well if you can.

NitroX,

I spent most of my youth in the Kumaon hills, where I learnt to shoot, progressing from a BSA airgun, to a WR 275. The area is typical Corbett country, and in the days when I was there, I often chatted with some of the old boys who had seen and spoken to the great man. In fact I was shown the field in Talla kote(the Talla des maneater) where Corbett killed the cub and wounded the maneater.
The mela (fair) in Rudraprayag is still held, to this day, though I suppose few people remember it was started in celebration of the killing of the maneating leopard.
I have several pics of the hunting days in Kumaon, including some close ups of Tigers on kills. I shall post them up as soon as my system is back up and running.
DJ

500 grains,

The difference between my country and China is that in China there is a great willingness to learn from mistakes and change for the better. In India, the opposite is the case.

I've been twice in India on business trip. But the only thing I saw were a lot of people, people and again people.
I can't imagine, that there still exists a lot of place where you really can hunt. Even here in Germany our population density is nothing compared to India.

Bad situation.

Best regards

Sauenjaeger,

You might not know it, but there are still many places in India where we can hunt - what we hunt, though, is strictly limited. There have been 5 permits for hunting leopard in Maharashtra in the past two months and there are rumours that some might be given out in our northern state of Himachal Pradesh, but there are groups that are strongly opposed to this and are working to stop this.

Nilgai are also becoming a pest in many states in India and there are persistent demands for opening up the crop-protection permits to include Nilgai in some parts of Central India.

Yes, we are a very populous country (1 billion and increasing at last count) but there are many places that are VERY underpopulated scattered all over India. If you visit our major cities, you might not be able to even imagine such places exist, but if you like, I can give you a list of good places and you could arrange through your travel agent to visit them.

Mehul

What are the populations like of:

sambar deer;
chital deer;
hog deer (I believe these are "endangered"?);
blackbuck;
gaur.

Any other game species?

Can any of these be hunted, or "controlled" by locals?

mehulkamdar,

quote:

---

I can give you a list of good places and you could arrange through your travel agent to visit them.

---

India is on my short list of places to go, and I do not think I would be alone in finding a list of sportsmen's things to do and places to go in India very interesting.

Fireplug

Nitro X,

None of the animals that you have listed can be hunted. I shall try and get you figures on populations in a day or so. It is a sad thing that even blackbuck which are farmed in a number of places in the US and Britain are highly endangered in India.

Fireplug,

As a foreigner, you won't be allowed to hunt in India and, in any case, I'm not sure you'd want to hunt rabbits or wild boar on private land like we are allowed to. But if you'd like a glimpse of what is left of out magnificent wildlife, you won't go wrong in visiting any of the following places:

1. Ranthambhore
2. Bandhavgarh
3. Mudumalai and Top Slip
4. Aanamalai
5. Corbett National Park (If you cross from here into Nepal, you can get a license to hunt sheep and mountain goat inside Nepal)
6. Kodagu (Coorg)

There are a number of other former reserves, but these are probably the best organised ones and the ones where you can see what is left of our formerly magnificent wildlife. All of them, by the way, were once hunting preserves.

If you visit Top Slip or Aanamalai, you will have to pass through my home town. Do keep an evening free to have dinner with me.

A good list put up by Mehul. I would like to add, if I may, that the Central Indian sanctuary of Kanha in the height of summer, (bloody hot mid 40's C) is the place to go if you want to be almost certain of seeing tiger.
Kaziranga national park in the NE is excellent for viewing the Indian Rhino, Tiger, Gaur, Elephant and the water buffalo.
With pressures from the population explosion in India, hunting will never be an option in India, no matter how committed any Govt. may be in re-introducing it.
The deforestation of the Kumaon hills has to be seen to be believed... Depressing.
The late evening call of a tiger, when even the cricketts go quiet, is an experience.

DJ,
Hope we're still friends!

I also forgot Nagarhole - another good spot if you want to see tigers.

A little bit of news in yesterday's Indian Express gives some hope to hunters and shooters - I haven't seen the entire judgement, but apparently the Supreme Court threw out all caliber restrictions on private guns. A lot of the old double rifles will now become much more valuable than they were since 1984. The old 303 had been delisted from the prohibited bores list some time ago, but now the 308 and 223 will also become accessible if this judgement is what I think it is.

Hallo Mehul,

I have been in your town, in Chennai.
I have finished the project, so there is no date to have an other visit in India. But who knows?

As I was there, I didn't have too much time to make sightseeing or some trips arround. Also my stomach seems not to be very lucky about the Indian food.
So my time and the range I was arround Chennai was very limited. Only for the most popular things I have had time at one sunday. The rest we stayed in the factory.

But will see.

Best regards

Mehul Kamdar,

Thank you, for the places to go list and the very kind invitation.

I know it is a bit off topic, but since hunting is out of the question is fishing an option? I have read about some exciting fishing in India, but all the outdoorsman's stories are dated from colonial times.

D. J.,

Thank you for the additions to Mehul's list.

Fireplug

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fireplug:

Fireplug,

Probably the best fresh water fighting fish, the 'Mighty Masheer'can still be caught in India's rivers.
You can catch them on the Cauvery river in South India. The fishing here is pretty well organised, though a bit commercialised.
In Northern India, right up in the foothills of the Himalayas, by the border with Nepal, is some of the best Masheer fishing. The area is wild...Tiger country, and the fishing can be spectacular. I have friends in the area who go on their annual trip to the area in October, as the water runs clear after the monsoons. If you are interested ........
Shooting is not 'dead' in India. It's just a matter of who you know.
DJ

Sauenjaeger,

If you have visited Chennai, I can understand why you think India is horribly crowded! We are a large country, though, and there are good places that you could visit if you liked.

Fireplug,

Strangely, fishing is being promoted in a big way by my government even while hunting is being cracked down upon. Yes, you might get away with a little shooting if you have friends who take you along, but, if you get into trouble, it would be hell to get out of. I certainly wouldn't advise it, though DJ might know better!

Mehul & D.J.,

Thanks for the good information. Yet, one more way to stay poor but have great experiences --- a good trade after all.

Fireplug

Mehul,

I think we are in the same situation, eventhough my country never had such a glorious moment of hunting era just like in the hollywood old movies

There are magnificent spieces here, such as :tiger, elephant, leopard, clouded leopard, banteng, water buffalo, rhino, sambar deer, but all are restricted.

Legal hunting goes to wild boar only. License for banteng closed 15 years ago.

For some spieces their population are well enough. Only tiger and rhino which are endangered.

I think our governments should learn to what's been done by Australian government. Sambar deer, banteng, water buffalo, fallow deer were not from Australia . People brought the spieces there and started to breed in wilderness.In good management and control, those animals are huntable every year.

The worst think happens in my country is poacher. Equipped with Military 8X57 Mauser, poachers take elephants for tusks and tigers for the skins and they do it on and on.

Sometimes registered hunters do illegaly, but only small impact. Poachers are many and co-operated with legal force.

Private hunting area is the best solution, I think. the money earned will preserve the wildlife. But I dont know how to start it up.

Thanks

Abdi

Banteung Raider

You may be interested. I was speaking to a reputable Australasian outfitter some 9 years ago and he had been approached to setup a safari operation in Indonesia. Game was to include tiger and rhino, believe it or not. He declined as obviously the operation would have been completely "black market" and illegal.

I wonder if such an operation was setup back then with someone else and if so whether it still is? Not many hunters but probably extremely high prices. You would think in such a highly populated country that it would be hard (impossible) to keep secret.

Where would be the main wild game populations in Indonesia today? Borneo? Sumatra? West Irian?

NitroX,

I don't think it can be worked if it for an illegal operation. One or two hits might work but not in the long run.

Tiger, leopard and rhino are being endangered right now. Leopard and rhino can be found in a National Reserve Parks only. Tiger is the only endangered species which still crawls in Sumatran jungle outside the National Parks.

Morally, I am hesitated to recommend those species.

Elephant, banteng, water buffalo, Sambar deer and timor deer are plenty enough as a trophy game. This trophies might work to attract hunters around the world. The money go to the authority to preserve the game and the outfitter.

The main wild game populations in Indonesia today would be in Sumatra for elephant, sambar deer and in Java for banteng and water buffalo. West Irian and borneo for deer species.

Wild boar are scattered all parts of Indonesia and it is free to hunt, no license required.

Abdi

Banteng Raider,

I visited your country in 1992 when I was doing a story on the coal mining industry there. I did not get to visit the jungle areas (no time and editors don't pay big expenses!) but I have visited Jakarta and Bengkulu.

The fires in Indonesia have attracted a lot of attention here and I hope that things will improve. We too have a problem with poaching in India and strangely, the islands that fall near your country (Andaman and Nicobar) have some beautiful wildlife including elephant (feral from the old British logging companies) a number of deer species, boar and some game birds. Only the tribals and military personnel are allowed to hunt though.

Good shooting!