Posted this on another forum, and I don't mean to sound ficitious, but with the problems in Zim, and the potential huge price hikes in Tanz., as well as the general cost in other south african countries, is this spelling the doom of our most affordable DG hunting for the working man on a budget? Australia and Argentina look mighty good right now for different varieties of water buffalo. Throw in some scrub bulls/cebus, and it looks pretty inviting monetarily. Granted they aren't cape buffalo, but I keep thinking that africa is killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Your thoughts, please.

Mad Dog

Without a doubt the cost of DG hunting in Africa has escalated beyond mere mortals. According to some census results and projections I should be able to hunt the universe, but reality... another story. Thank you land of taxes, 450 Billion for ousting Sadam... should have bribed him and family.

quote:

Originally posted by Mad Dog:
Posted this on another forum, and I don't mean to sound ficitious, but with the problems in Zim, and the potential huge price hikes in Tanz., as well as the general cost in other south african countries, is this spelling the doom of our most affordable DG hunting for the working man on a budget? Australia and Argentina look mighty good right now for different varieties of water buffalo. Throw in some scrub bulls/cebus, and it looks pretty inviting monetarily. Granted they aren't cape buffalo, but I keep thinking that africa is killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Your thoughts, please.

Mad Dog

Mad Dog

It’s not the end yet!

You always can hunt for just under 10k Buff in Mozambique on a 2x1 hunt 7 hunting days inclusive of air-charter, trophy fees, hunting license, and gun permit!

Cheers

with who and how do i contact them? i hunted buf once in the Selous but with the bullshit that is taking place there now, they won't see any more of my money!

Contact Chris Troskie, he hunts Mozambique for DG.
www.ct-safaris.com

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
with who and how do i contact them? i hunted buf once in the Selous but with the bullshit that is taking place there now, they won't see any more of my money!

Send an e-mail to nhalikanga@gmail.com and ask for a price on their Buffalo special an other company to contact is gamehunt@trustnet.co.za which is a little more expensive.

Cheers

Sure, buff is being replaced but not by other bovines.

Uhh YD, we wouldn't be inferring tuskless ele would we

Mad Dog

I cannot recollect that...Senator.

Mad Dog

Where are you finding reasonable Australian Buffalo hunts.

Last prices I saw were at least as high as Africa an usually much higher for fewer days and very basic facilities.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

The new Tanzanian prices are making even the South African Cape Buffalo hunts look attractive.

Myself and AR member Top Predator hunted Arnhemland land last July at $1,700 2x1 ... with trophy fees at $300 for cows, $900 for management bulls, and $2,500 for trophy bulls. These were five day hunts ... lots of trophy bulls ... certainly in the middle of nowhere. Except for the fact that the outfitter nearly starved us to death (if such a thing can be done to a silly Canuck in 5 days) it was a great deal for the price. Without lions making their lives miserable and with almost no hunting pressure (we were told that the indigenous Aborigines were 'coastal' there and weren't interested in the buffs to eat) the big bulls would sometimes come calling to check you out !!! The lady buffalo were spooky, however. Neither Top Predator nor I were happy that the meat of the buffalo was not utilized and if I ever did it again (I like hunting various types of buffalo ) I would see if we could take the meat to some one - somewhere ...

Hey scruffy, who'd you hunt with? Thats a helluva price!

Mad Dog

I've hunted both cape and water buffalo at least a couple of times each and will hunt each again more than that, I hope!

I've hunted water buffalo in Arnhemland with Matt Graham of Hunt Australia, and Graham Williams of Australian Buffalo Hunters. Five days of hunting and seven days respectively so similar to short cape buff hunts. I've also culled a few water buffalo on a cattle station.

I don't know current prices but they used to range between $5500 to $9500 with one trophy fee included. Price can be variable due to the hunt location. If the camp is in remote Arnhemland then prices are sometimes higher in the scale. 2x1, 1x1 etc also changes the prices. Prices might be found which are cheaper too, but the cheapest is not always the best value.

All the camps have been comfortable. But there aren't twenty 'blackamatics' around to do everything for you. A fixed permanent tent camp is often more luxurious than a mobile tented camp.

As I said I have hunted with two outfitters and a third doing a cull. On all of these the food has never been inadequate, nor lacking in quality. Inadequate food in quality nor quantity is not an acceptable "cost-saver" when it is cheap enough in Australia.

Usually more than one buffalo can be taken with an additional trophy fee. Some very good areas produce top trophies in the first day or two. On the Hunt Aust hunt, I took my bull on day 2 but could have taken one on the first, and the other hunter on day 4. On the fifth day we fished and shot a young buff for the local Aborigines. Also a pig. On the Aust Buffalo Safaris hunt there were three clients present and two PHs. Over the week we took five good buffalo bulls, two scrub bulls, a boar, and did some fishing several times for barramundi and other fish.

Pigs are not as common in Arnhemland , they are there but in smaller numbers. Separate trips to station country for good numbers can usually be arranged.

Wastage of buff meat is not un-avoidable in the Outback as it is not economical to supply chillers to hunting camps. It costs more than the meat is worth. The local Aboriginals obviously get too good a deal from government handouts (ie cash pensions) so don't feel a need for buff meat. On one hunt we did shoot a younger buffalo and did quarter it for the local township and the four clans living there. One possible source of good meat and quickly obtainable is the fillets (ie tenderloins) which can be accessed without a huge amount of difficulty without butchering the whole beasts with two cuts each side. Eat part of your buffalo.

However the carcase will feed the pigs, dingoes and crocodiles, plus eagles, hawks and crows so is not entirely wasted.

The danger factor of water buffalo vs cape buffalo. Firstly the animal that seems to charge the most readily is actually the scrub bull. A mate makes hunting films and when carrying a camera can't carry a rifle. He has been charged many times. I don't claim to be any sort of expert on either. Never been charged by either.

A comment from a guy who has hunted a lot of cape buffalo (in real life not the internet) as a PH, and also hunted some water buffalo. His beliefs were cape buffalo are more aggressive, but water buffalo are actually harder to kill. Both can be aggressive after being wounded.

Some Aussies will tell you a .308 is fine for buffalo. Some of the Aussies with these thoughts in the past, will now tell you a .375 or bigger is needed, after eventually having a close call. Outfitters recommend a .375 or larger.

***

I have had a "face off" with an old water buffalo bull at less than 20 yards. And the story is below.

The bull wanted to either check out whom we were or go through us. He came trotting determinedly at us and stopped facing us. Matt said the bulls are funny, in that sometimes they run, but other times they seem to be just in a bad mood and if they want to go in a certain direction, they will go through what is in their way. Later in the hunt,m I also saw two buffalo bulls 'tussle' over a choice feeding area, and I guess the looser might also develop a bad mood through such antics.

The bull then turned and ran but as he ran he decided to angrily hook a tree with his horn which brought the tree down crashing (ie broke through the trunk) and he turned and came back towards us. He stopped and then took some quick steps toward us and we decided to keep the distance so we backed up. He stopped. Again he took some quick steps forward and again we backed up. We were trying to work out if he was good enough a trophy, we didn't want to shoot un-necessarily. We did have our rifles up though and definitely pointed at his head ready. As he took steps toward us, we took steps back. This continued for about four quick step sessions.

I can tell you you start to think about, can I drop him, and can I hit the brain, is two shots going to be enough, when the bull is facing you at 20 yards, if he decides to come seriously at a fast pace.

In the end we decided a better bull could be found. This guy was really good and nice and old and worn, but better bulls might be found. It was also only the first morning of the hunt. So we kept backing up until we had a fair distance and then turned and walked carefully away keeping an eye on this bull.

Not a charge but exciting enough to get the adrenalin pumping.

***

To sum up, hunt BOTH while you can. One day in the future if we can still hunt either, it will be the "excitement" of "canned" buffalo behind high wire as the wild places of the Earth will be no more.

My goodness .... that buffalo was rather lucky that you chaps just didn't up and whack him !

Yes scrub bulls are feral cattle and are different animal to Banteng.

Banteng are only found on one small part of the Northern Territory,hunts cost around $10,000 US.

I have only hunted Water buffalo once ,from what i saw a wounded water buffalo with kill you given half a chance.

As NitroX said there are not many pigs in Arnhemland but the pigs that do live there are huge,i shot one in 300lbs range.

Here is my hunt report
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=563100715#563100715

On the danger issue I was speaking to Graham Williams of Australian Buffalo Hunters yesterday on the phone and asked him about this topic.

They actually had a charge by a water buffalo last week. The circumstances were the buffalo was shot by the client in a river and on impact it took off, but caught sight of the hunters and turned and began a charge with the buffalo eventually being dropped after a number of shots.

Graham said they get about one charge every year out of about 25 buffalo bulls taken. It is usually a wounded bull.

And per African PHs that have hunted with him it is pretty much the same scenario with the cape buffalo. That if the usual precautions are taken ie a couple of good shots and letting the beast die without a hasty follow-up, charges are definitely not common.

Just adding some comments from an Aussie water buffalo outfitter.

I have hunted buff with and book for Matt Graham's Hunt Australia. I have also hunted African buff many times. In my experience, the Aussie buff are easier to hunt because they have no predators. However, it is still good sport. I especially enjoy hunting the old management bulls. They are cheaper, bigger, and meaner than the younger bulls, which many prefer because their intact tips make them score higher.

Again, in my limited experience, Aussie buff seem tougher to kill than African buff. Of course, that's limited to the 5 Aussie buff I shot or saw shot last month compared to several dozen African buff I've seen bite the bullet, but they were pretty damn tenacious of life.

It would be nice to hunt both Cape and water buff to get a perspective. Kudos to those of you who have done both.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
On the danger issue I was speaking to Graham Williams of Australian Buffalo Hunters yesterday on the phone and asked him about this topic.

They actually had a charge by a water buffalo last week. The circumstances were the buffalo was shot by the client in a river and on impact it took off, but caught sight of the hunters and turned and began a charge with the buffalo eventually being dropped after a number of shots.

Graham said they get about one charge every year out of about 25 buffalo bulls taken. It is usually a wounded bull.

And per African PHs that have hunted with him it is pretty much the same scenario with the cape buffalo. That if the usual precautions are taken ie a couple of good shots and letting the beast die without a hasty follow-up, charges are definitely not common.

Just adding some comments from an Aussie water buffalo outfitter.

I have only a small amount of experience with Water Buffalo, of the type found in OZ,a little more with the Europian type, but have some experience with cape Buffalo, both shooting them myself, and witnessing the shooting of them by others. With that said I have zero disagreement with John's outfitter's take on the bovines perpensity to charge the hunter!

There is a condition to the follow-up time that makes a lot of difference in the chance of getting a charge. If the bull is hit hard, and in a very lethal place, then the outfitter is correct, and one is better off waithing. However, if the bull isn't hit hard,(gut shot), then the follow-up should be immediate. The reason for this is the longer the wounded buffalo (cape Buffalo) is left to suffer with a gut shot, the more likely an AMBUSH charge. So! In this case the buffalo should be kept in sight by running after him, till he stops, or turns away from the herd, or other dougaboys. A bull with a gut shot gets meaner than a mad snake, after his belly ache gets unbearable, and he tends to go deep in the weeds, to wait for anything he thinks is following, and a very short range charge is more likely! This may not be the hunter at all, but a local just passing by, unaware of the buffalo at all. A gut shot buffalo can live for days, suffering, chargeing anything it sees,or hears!

The actual instances of a charge of even a wounded buffalo are quite rare,and even less common with an un-wounded buffalo, but it does happen in both cases. Still it is very uncommon, except on a MS film!