It is like hugh Heffner having all the hot chicks around pretending they take care of his sexual needs when we all doubt he can get it up. If everyone is happy then that is fine with me. I will not only shoot trophies for anyone who wants to pay but will also write a journal of their many hunting stores so when they brag there are no holes in the tales the tell.

I will only display trophies that I or members of my family have taken. I would consider buying a mounted to "represent" one I had taken if there were problems with export, or it got lost or damaged in shipping or seized by USFWS because someone didn't use the right color ink on a form. Kind of like getting a fiberglass reproduction of a PAC bulls tusks, or the head of a darted rhino. I'd much prefer my own, but if there were reasons why it couldn't be my own, having one to represent/replace it I'd have no problems with that.

I wouldn't buy a mount of an animal of a species I had never taken though; well maybe a jackalope.

quote:

Originally posted by Max Trauma:
It is like hugh Heffner having all the hot chicks around pretending they take care of his sexual needs when we all doubt he can get it up. If everyone is happy then that is fine with me. I will not only shoot trophies for anyone who wants to pay but will also write a journal of their many hunting stores so when they brag there are no holes in the tales the tell.

Hef admits to getting some pharmaceutical help these days.

Maybe it is in the meaning of the word trophy. To me it is only a trophy to the person that took the "trophy" other wise it is a mounted species. How does that set with you. To me my first whitetail was a trophy even though it was only a very little 3 point.

Intolerant? Condescending? Nope! It is however not my way. I dont want someone else shooting at an animal I have wounded. The exceptions being as previously stated. Either it was a dangerous situation or I knew I couldnt do it. In the latter case it isnt about the fee or the "trophy". The fee will get paid either way and it is no longer a trophy in my book. I do however not like to leave a wounded animal if at all possible. As to the rest of it, just plain leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

While I personally would not see the point of putting an animal that I did not hunt on the wall and more to the point, claim it as mine, I hunt for my experience and the mounts are reminiscences of the hunt.

Similarly, this is why I don't care about the big wigs that have the game put on a silver platter and claim that they shot so many top 10 animals. If you did, great, you have some real memories. If not, you are just chitting yourself and your friends. Its in your own eye.

When you meet god, are you going to be saying, well I had my PH shoot my top 10 leopard, but everybody thinks I'm the greatest hunter to walk the land! or are you going to think back on all the grand experiences the lord let you have?

In other words, you only cheat yourself, and really why worry what someone else does?

Now, the legal end I completely agree with. IF SA law says no shooting of an animal if the tag is not yours, more power to them. I somehow doubt that everyone follows it, but who cares here? It isn't my animal, and my experience didn't change one whit because some asian guy wanted a leopard that badly. I am not going to lose sleep over the fact that someone, somewhere has a leopard that they claim they shot that they didn't.

How many of us hear all kinds of hunting stories (or tell them) that have little relationship to the actual hunt. My deceased uncle was a master at the tall tale. I was there when he did the hunt, but somehow the retelling was much more interesting than the real hunt- it was entertainment, no more no less, and yet I doubt all this indignation would arise at deer camp over the fact that the 4 pointer that snorted at you on the outhouse throne all the sudden became a 10 point B&C monster.

Part of our problem is that many wish to put their particular ethics on everyone else. While there may be some boundaries that we almost all agree on, remember the old saying, that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones....

quote:

Originally posted by ChrisTroskie:

quote:

Originally posted by infinito:
Client had 4 chances in the first week to shoot Leopard. Never got close to doing it. I'm pulling my hair out of my head..... Then the interperter comes to me and ask if I will shoot the Leopard for him.

Maybe you should have called in the help of the interpreter earlier

Chris, there was of course a lot of talk about why after the first chance. They changed their mind after the the last time.

Please understand that I never looked down to the guy, he obviously had his reasons. I lost my tag, the trophy fee and a chance at a great Leopard. Not to talk about all the bloody hard work that went into it.

I must say I should be glad that he never did pull the trigger after seeing what happened to some of the PG......the Chainsaw with wings and spots would have caused some casualties I'sure.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by infinito:


Remember, the client never stated his abilities or interest. He just booked the hunt....

Well did you ask him??

Matt, the guy cannot speak english. The hunt was booked through an agent. I was told the guy shot most of the big cats in the world, thats all. As said, it was the first time this has ever happened to me, and No I did not ask the agent. I assumed a guy that books a $18k leopard hunt is a hunter......and that is what I said about assumption......

I related an experience. I did not write rights or wrongs. It was simply stated as an interesting experience that the AR lot might find interesting, or not.

Vaughn is right, should have made it a cull hunt!

quote:

Originally posted by infinito:

Matt, the guy cannot speak english. The hunt was booked through an agent. I was told the guy shot most of the big cats in the world, thats all. As said, it was the first time this has ever happened to me, and No I did not ask the agent. I assumed a guy that books a $18k leopard hunt is a hunter......and that is what I said about assumption......

I related an experience. I did not write rights or wrongs. It was simply stated as an interesting experience that the AR lot might find interesting, or not.

Vaughn is right, should have made it a cull hunt!

It is a good idea to survey all of your hunters, as to their hunting experience, abilities, physical condition and expectations, well before the hunt!! Especially so if someone else booked the hunt (agent, relative, etc)

You can take that advice or leave it!!

quote:

Originally posted by infinito:
I lost my tag, the trophy fee and a chance at a great Leopard. Not to talk about all the bloody hard work that went into it.

Too bad about the tag. We all know you had high expectations about this hunt and this is a bad way of losing out on it.

Four opportunities not taken on a leopard - that's a real bummer!

Off the topic but a quick question out of interest: Were you hunting the cat in daytime as planned and did it come in during the day?

Matt, you can ask most hunters on AR that has hunted with us, that we send out such a questionaire. This agent contacted me, the deal was tied down in a day and the permit taken out a day later, Zi Englysh zis verrry bad.....not sending the questionaire proof to be a costly and frustrating excercise.....your advice is of course good and taken to heart....

Chris, the Leopard was in the tree in legal shooting light three times in one evening. The fourth time was two days later. The area is thrive with Leopard, and we know of at least 6 big different cats that frequent the 15,000acre conservancy that we hunt. It was not even difficult to get the Leopard in the tree. Problem is in this area we have to start baiting about 1,5 meters of the ground and then move it up to where we want it. Cats do not take bait straight in the tree. This is what we missed out on....during the pre-baiting when he was still on the ground.....took him two days to come in at about 17:30....

Had a "guest" hunter once...we were sitting on back deck. Drinking adult beverages. Turtles started crawling up on a log floating in the slough behind the house. We decided there were too many turtles in the world. Seated leaning on the deck rail with a .22-250 and a 24 power scope , he missed twice at 75 yds...I killed him a turtle....was this a Trophy Hunt gone bad??

Yep, Y'all should know better than to to start playing with firearms after the adult beverages have been flowing.

I hunt moose each year here in Ontario, where we must organize a minimum-size group of hunters in order to receive a tag for a bull. When the group applies for a tag, it is issued in the name of one of the members of the group, who must participate in the hunt.

When I finally nailed an actual trophy bull, rather than merely a cow or calf, I was astonished when that year's tag holder informed me that the bull was his. Legally, I had no recourse. I had on two previous occasions affixed a tag issued in my name to another hunter's bull, without even considering that I had any moral or legal claim to the trophy...why would I even want it?

The "hunter" in this case has the antlers prominently displayed in his den, and apparently takes pride in showing them off to visitors. He has a couple of other nice trophies as well...hmmm...

quote:

Originally posted by jwm:
I hunt moose each year here in Ontario, where we must organize a minimum-size group of hunters in order to receive a tag for a bull. When the group applies for a tag, it is issued in the name of one of the members of the group, who must participate in the hunt.

When I finally nailed an actual trophy bull, rather than merely a cow or calf, I was astonished when that year's tag holder informed me that the bull was his. Legally, I had no recourse. I had on two previous occasions affixed a tag issued in my name to another hunter's bull, without even considering that I had any moral or legal claim to the trophy...why would I even want it?

The "hunter" in this case has the antlers prominently displayed in his den, and apparently takes pride in showing them off to visitors. He has a couple of other nice trophies as well...hmmm...

That's just plain WEIRD!!! Cant believe the group let him get away with it!!

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by jwm:
I hunt moose each year here in Ontario, where we must organize a minimum-size group of hunters in order to receive a tag for a bull. When the group applies for a tag, it is issued in the name of one of the members of the group, who must participate in the hunt.

When I finally nailed an actual trophy bull, rather than merely a cow or calf, I was astonished when that year's tag holder informed me that the bull was his. Legally, I had no recourse. I had on two previous occasions affixed a tag issued in my name to another hunter's bull, without even considering that I had any moral or legal claim to the trophy...why would I even want it?

The "hunter" in this case has the antlers prominently displayed in his den, and apparently takes pride in showing them off to visitors. He has a couple of other nice trophies as well...hmmm...

That's just plain WEIRD!!! Cant believe the group let him get away with it!!

Weird, yes, but then our moose hunting regulations are pretty weird as well. This scenario is a fairly common one up here, and the source of quite a bit of conflict within hunting groups.

Very strange.

I have two trophies in my house - one of a Kudu which I had hunted on occasion and was eventually bought down by a Lion (pick up) and the other a warthog which I shot when I first started hunting.

I am not a trophy collector but to display something that is not yours is somewhat abstract if you pretend that it is?

I used to have the world record (or near) Chobe Bushbuck trophy in camp, nailed to the wall of the dining room. We took it off a poacher and at a rough 22 inches I am now thinking that it may have been something of value?

Quite right and it was not hunted by me and is now knocking around the back of the skinning shed.

22" Chobe would be "somethng of value" to many...personally I wud just love to see it and maybe photo it with you holding it.... the best dead Buff and Kudu I ever saw were in Safari camps....just hanging there....probably cud sell them to idiot collectors for more than a 28 day hunt! Buff was 46" with super bosses---pick up and Kudu was 63" killed by former concession holder and left in camp....