This may not be the correct place to post this question but…..

If you are an American and wanted to retire to one of the African countries, or for those of you who have lived in various African countries for extended periods, where would you live? What country seems to be the most stable politically? Which one would stretch your US dollar the farthest, with the possibility of opening a small business of some kind without having to worry too much about pay-offs and bribes on the side, reasonable taxes and half-way decent medical care at least available in the capital cities etc.

The intention is to have a small moderately comfortable home, maybe near a beach with a little fishing, a little hunting now and then. I’ve been to Namibia and loved it. Have thought about Tanzania and looked at some homes around Dar Es Salaam via the web.

Just doing a little day dreaming and thinking out loud…..

Working on the criteria you mention, I'd say South Africa is a good option. It's reasonably inexpensive and if you pick the right area and right place to live is relatively safe and has good facilities such as infrastructure & hospitals etc. However, getting residency isn't easy and if you want to retire here, you need to prove an income of at least ZAR20K per month. The act says that sum is required per person, but later makes allowance for one person to come in as spouse to the other person, so you might get away with ZAR20K per month per person.

Other good options are:

Tanzania, but it's expensive and road and traffic are terrible in the Dar area and facilities and infrastructure are limited. For property try here: http://www.my-beach.com/

Botswana is nice, pretty safe and growing as far as nice properties etc are concerned, but lacking in some ways and immigration isn't easy. - Actually, that can be said of most African countries.

Namibia is also a good option, but you know about that one.

Mozambique is also quickly growing and is very beautiful - but again roads and general infrastructure are lacking. I live quite close to the Mozambique border (about 2 hours driving) and a huge amount of Moz residents come here to shop and for the medical facilities because they're simply so much better than in their own country....... how bad must it be for them to drive all that way just to go to a supermarket..........

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco:

Just doing a little day dreaming and thinking out loud…..

Well, in Africa it's always harder to do even the most simple of things, especially if you are a dedicated rule follower. If any of those things require even a single government authorization assume they will take a very, very long time. Let's examine some of the issues to consider before spending any money:

Income taxes: if you spend more than 183 days per year in your new country, assume you will pay income tax in your new country of residence, whether you already pay in the USA or not. Or, conversely you will pay a tax inspector a bribe so as not to pay the statutory tax as assessed in its entirety. Income tax rates are usually set so high as to almost push the taxpayer into the second approach. Catch 22 is if you spend less than 183 days in-country to avoid paying income tax then you may have a problem with your residency status.

Opening a small business: unless you are willing to wait quite a long time for authorizations, the chances of legally opening a small business as a sole owner are just about nil. If you acquire an existing business the seller may be in a position to guide you into a fast track, since it would be in his interest, and the secret to not worrying about having to pay bribes is to assume you will be paying them so there's no reason to worry about it. Partnering with a local is always encouraged. If you can find a local partner who will actually contribute something to your venture, and not just profit by it, or strip you of almost everything you've invested in it just when it starts to work well, then you've hit the gold mine. Always assume it will take two to three years to resolve any litigation, no matter how minor, and always assume you will lose no matter how many village development funds you contribute to (only pay after the verdict and all appeals have been exhaused), unless the judge or his in-laws come from the same village as you.

Medical care: unless you are in South Africa (and maybe one or two other capital cities) assume medical care is either non-existant or best avoided. Take out some good medevac insurance.

Just about everything else, like where and how much it costs are more personal decisions. You may note that many people just fly or drive into a town, hang out for a few weeks, find a local who wants to rent his place under the table assuming you will pay in undeclared hard currency, start some service-oriented business which requres no store front and isn't going head-to-head with an existing operation, and continue on like that for years in an under-the-radar off-the-grid kind of way.

The Seychelles would be the only African country I'd live in.

You could not pay me to live in any of the safari countries.

George

Windhoek, or Swakopmund, Okahanja or Otjiwarongo, Namibia would be hard to beat. Want a small African City?, Winhoek, Access to fishing?, Swakopmund, Smaller and more remote? Okahanja or Otjivarongo. I have been few different places in Africa and Namibia is my pick.

I could spend a lot of time in Kasane, Botswana.

ForrestB:

I like your way of thinking! Head over to the Chobe Lodge for a couple of sundowners and try and pick up the good looking Australian tourists! Or you can drive into Vic Falls, see Russell at the Ultimate Guest Lodge and then go to the Vic Falls Hotel for a Pimms no.1 Cup on the veranda!

And stll be able to get groceries, fuel and Castle beer in Kasane.

And, good hunting in all directions, Caprivi Strip, Matetsi and surrounding areas, Zambia and of course Botswana.

Hmmmm...Might have to think this one through!

RCG

If you had asked this question 15 yrs ago, I'd have said Zimbabwe! I alomst tried that back in 1992! Well we all know how that would have turned out.

Today I don't think I'd live anyplace in Africa. RSA has good hospitals, something to think about at my age, but like all African countries is a little lacking on the rights of their citizens. Botswana is about the most stable, but lacking in infrastructure.

If I could take the US constitution, and bill of rights with me,Then I'd likely pick RSA today, but I hold no desire to live anyplace in Africa, under the present conditions!

Be careful what you pray for, you just might get it.

Like New York City, I love to visit but would hate to live there.

m3

Please see the information regarding property purchase by non residents here at Pam Golding Real Estate. A lot of good information there.

Lots of properties for sale as well, though, the locals think that "...anything listed by Pam Golding is too expensive".

Les

Shakari [and any other RSA residents]

If someone did not require employment, and would rent a place to live, how well can they live on the R20,000 per month minimum, or R40,000 per month?

Finding info on cost of living in comparison to the USA and the costs of everyday items has been hard to track down. I do know that vehicles are really expensive, but fuel is not "too much different" to ours here.

I have seen bank deposits paying 10%+/- in recent times, so assume inflation is also, +/- 10%?

Salisbury, Rhodesia

-during the good old days with Ian Smith as THE leader

I have spent a lot of time in Africa, and I have to tell you that I am always so glad to get home in the good old USA...

If I had to live in a foriegn country then it would be Mexico or Australia..Mexico because I am very familair with it and speak the language, and even though its not a particularly safe country I know how to get along there.. Australia because I could sleep at night and feel safe with my family, not so Africa, it can change overnight...

I hope conditions do not deterioate to the point that I have to live in any country but the USA...With the election coming up I wonder sometimes.

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
The Seychelles would be the only African country I'd live in.

I was in the Seychelles umpteen years ago. It seemed nice.

For me the only African country where I would like to live would be Morocco. Spent 27 months there while in the navy.

I would like to retire from Africa and base up in Texas, as close as possible to where the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders hang out. Anyone keen to trade lives? The life of a sometimes employed Zimbabwean hunt journalist who owns what he can carry for that of an oil tycoon, or something? Tempting offer, I must say. No takers? Hell, even the life of an illegal immigrant would do!

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I hope conditions do not deterioate to the point that I have to live in any country but the USA...With the election coming up I wonder sometimes.

Same here Ray! I have an uncle that lives in Australia and that would make the move there very easy.

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:
I would like to retire from Africa and base up in Texas, as close as possible to where the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders hang out. Anyone keen to trade lives? The life of a sometimes employed Zimbabwean hunt journalist who owns what he can carry for that of an oil tycoon, or something? Tempting offer, I must say. No takers? Hell, even the life of an illegal immigrant would do!

Dave

Hmmm...

I think I will not tempt my wife with replacing me.

LHowell,

A lot obviously depends on what rent you pay and that depends on where you live. I own my house here, so can't really comment on rents, but I'm sure you'll find some prices on the net. My home is about a 15 minute drive from the KNP

on the White River Country Estate which is what's called a secure estate. That means a golf course in the middle with houses surounding it and a secure perimeter fence around it with movement detectors and security staff etc......... security is very good indeed and I'd highly recommend the estate to anyone. If you do a net search on the name, you'll probably find details of houses to rent. It's so safe here we rarely lock our cars or the house...... that includes overnight. About the only time I lock up properly and set the alarm is if we go away for a number of weeks or months. Last year we went away hunting for about 7 or 8 months and didn't have any problems.

Other costs are pretty cheap compared to the UK for example. Petrol is about ZAR9 - 9.5 per litre and food costs are very low. Even a good meal for two in the most expensive restaurant in town would probably cost no more than about ZAR600.

Vehicle prices here are ridiculously high, but because of the good roads, lack of traffic and good weather, they last a loooong time. don't think you can import a cheap car from the USA, because there's a 100 odd % import tax on any vehicle you bring in.

Labour costs in this area are higher than in most rural areas and we pay our maid and our outside guy R100 each per day. The staff comes in once or twice a week and work 8am-3pm.

E-mail me at shakari3@mweb.co.za if you need more precise details etc.

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:
I would like to retire from Africa and base up in Texas, as close as possible to where the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders hang out. Anyone keen to trade lives? The life of a sometimes employed Zimbabwean hunt journalist who owns what he can carry for that of an oil tycoon, or something? Tempting offer, I must say. No takers? Hell, even the life of an illegal immigrant would do!

Dave

I hate to burst your bubble but if you're a "sometimes employed" who owns what he can carry, there is no need for you to try to hang around with Cowboy Cheerleaders, their maintenance requirements are substantial.....

Gatorgordo,

That's why I am looking for an oil tycoon to trade places with.... However, were I only to find an opening as an illegal immigrant, I wouldn't give up on the Cowboy girl angle. You don't know me do you? I can weave a good yarn my friend, I am a storyteller after all.
And just to clarify: I'm not a dirty-minded fellow, I only want take a good look at them in the flesh. Do you have to be rich to simply look at them? Jeez, reckon I'll stay put. There are still a few decent girls here and even a poverty stricken peasant like me is permitted to look at them!

Dave

The other night i set our house alarm. My oldest son had a sneazing attach at 1 a.m. which set off the glass break and alarm. I was instantly up clearing the house with my 1911. I had handed my wife my loaded glock to protect the little kids. I was unaware of the glass break being set too sensitive. So, I was up for about the next 3-4 hours because it was a flash back to living in Africa. It is somthing how such an event can make you remember how it is to sleep with one eye open which we did for the three years in Africa. People tried to break in our house 6 times in just three months. Then we got some serious guard dogs to protect us and had little problems afterward. I think i'll stay right here in America and go to Africa when i can and want to. If i ever go back i'll have some major dogs inside and outside the house and a human guard as well. That way i'll sleep better.

Aaron

I like to call that the Canine Early Warning System.

Lhowell, South Africa is a country full of contradictions-there are many incredibly wealthy people but millions that are very poor.

An average salary for someone in middle management is about R20 000 p/m excluding med aid etc. Even this varies from province to province.

At the moment inflation is running at +-13% but the targeted range is 3-6%.
In the large gated security estates you can pay anything from R12000 rent per month for a 250sqm house which is a good average. It is not uncommon for people to rent out bigger better houses for R25000 per month.

Really it depends on what type of lifestyle you want.I would not want to retire in SA with R20 000 a month and still have to pay rent.

IMHO if you want to live in SA in a good area,drive good cars,eat well,good med aid(absolute necessity) and ST insurance ,have a decent vacation and hunt a bit locally you will need upwards of R30 000 per month

PM me if you want more detailed info

ive lived in mozambique for 10 years and south africa for 9. moz would definately be my 1st choice

Can Americans outright own land in Namibia?
What about the "repatriation" or whatever they call it, looming over your head all the time?

Or maybe just "go in partners" with a Namibian who wants more land but wouldn't mind your fiancial support. Often thought about that...help them buy and come over and hunt my own land every years

Robert

Scott 450
What you have just described is life in Joburg
For the rest of the country with R 30 000 a month in your pocket you could easily afford to purchase your own piece of land with a good house on and a bit of game. New vehicles and a holiday in Europe every two years
Depending on what you want of course, however I would assume that someone moving to Africa would be doing it to get away from the city.

You can have good quality of life in SA for a lot less than comparaitive costs in the US/UK and the market is ripe for people with drive to set up businesses that will continue to swell the growth of the country and uplift our population.

That said, if I was moving to "Africa" then it would be Zambia or Malawi

I haven't seen any place in Africa that I'd want to live permanently, and I've seen a lot of Africa. The US has it's problems, but I think I'll stick around here.

Hearing all of this makes me think of the old axiom about the fact that some things are better to rent than buy... Anything that flies, floats, or....Well, you know the rest. Maybe should figure out how to add time in Africa to this list!

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
The Seychelles would be the only African country I'd live in.

You could not pay me to live in any of the safari countries.

George

I agree, especially after having been to several of them north and south of the Sahara.

I have been to the African continent 15 times but only visited 8 of the 52 or so countries that comprise it.

Each of those countries that I have been to has left me with great memories and from a broad perspective I love Africa, no doubt about it!

However if it came to living there, I have yet to visit the country that I would want to call home.

Botswana

Thanks for all the very insightful information – just a quick point of clarification. Have no intention of renouncing my US citizenship or even trying to obtain dual citizenship, just maybe longer-term (8-18 months at a time) residency with short visits back to the states now and then. Maybe more of a “snow bird†that migrates west to east instead of north to south with longer periods between migrations.

Very good info and insights and ideas – please keep them coming.

I was born in Port Elizabeth South Africa in 1943 / travelled/emigrated 1951 with my parents to Bulawayo Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, lived there till early 70's. Also lived in UK briefly, and Vancouver Canada for 5 years (man can it rain in Vancouver)...... Have been living in New Zealand since 1976 till present.

For those wanting to (consider Africa) I can certainly suggest Zambia as a good option.

The people are extremely friendy, the investment criteria situation has very good opportunities and tax breaks, there are no currency controls on money in or out, and LAND is plentiful and vastly under utalized, only about 4% or so is currently being farmed. There is no land grab and your investment is essentially covered by the EU whom fund a lot of Zambian projects, they and the WEST totally wiped all of Zambia's foreign debt some couple of years ago.

My brother Alan the game rancher from Limpopo Province South Africa is the owner/operator in Zambia of (Dendro Park Ranch) and has been an investor in Zambia for going on 12 years now, he has postive thoughts for the future.

Alan has one going concern game fenced hunting ranch Dendro Park, another game fenced (non-hunting) Bird Estate property with wildlife and citrus, and a third undeveloped ranch.

Cheers, Peter (ex; Rhodie War Vet in Smiths army)

m3taco,

I'm not sure about US citizens, but us Brits can request a 3 month holiday visa on entry and apply to the home affairs dept for an extension on that. Staying 6 months at a time before returning home for a few months isn't a problem as long as they know you're genuine......... could well be the same for US passport holders. They changed the requirements slightly a while ago, but it's still doable for us at least.

There are problems with that in that it's difficult to bring in firearms on that basis but it's not impossible. - If you did that, you could rent a different home in different areas every time and get to explore a lot more.......

I've been lucky enough to live in Africa, and some more unusual places - One year in Niger, now finishing my second year in Djibouti, and off to two years in Cameroon next. I've been to eighteen other Africa countries, some for days, some for months, for business and pleasure. I have had the benefit of living under the umbrella of the U.S. Embassy as a military officer, so many of the difficulties (getting something from the government, health care, etc.) are mitigated but not eliminated.

I've had a ball and I hope I can stay in Africa for as much of my remaining time in the service as possible. The experience has been great, but two years a pop at each place is enough. I will surely continue to travel in Africa, but I'll retire to the U.S.

Geez Matt, you mean you don't want to retire in Djibouti?

I should add that I lived for 5 years in Djibouti and made some very close friends during my time there; people I still see regularly. One of my daughters was born in the French military hospital there and I was happy both professionally and socially. But, like Matt, I decided to move on inspite of the offers I had to stay as long as I liked. The world is a big place and I still have a few places I want to visit, like Zimbabwe and the Selous.

Romag:

I am actually trying to work a tour with AFRICOM – Spent 3+ years in Germany early in my career and loved it. It would be with the “Out Reach†division and would hopefully entail frequent TDY into various African Counties. If it comes to pass, this would be my last assignment capping nearly 30 yrs in the AF and could be a very good finish – basing out of Stuttgart and TDYs (paid trips) into “The Dark Continentâ€â€¦..hummm…might even think about staying in a few more years.

NONE

What Non-African Country Would You Retire To If You Could as an African country born and bred resident?

Sorry m3taco, this is not meant to hi-jack your thread, but just to show the other side of the coin!

Weather, never be able to adapt to northern hemisphere's extreme cold weather - some places of course totally unthinkable for most of us in the southern hemisphere!
On top of the cold weather, the hurricanes, twisters, earth quakes and what next - not my cup of tea, thank you!

Never to be able to speak my unique and much adored language again other than with own family - Afrikaans of course!

Losing literally hundreds of hunting opportunities and above all never to be able to hunt under the African sun again as easy and many times I want to - unthinkable!

And so I can continue for days without coming to the end of it.

Rather pay almost R10 per liter fuel, more than R 300 000 for a decent double cab bakkie(LDV) and only be restricted to own 4 hunting rifles, before I trade any of the things mentioned earlier.

This could be also what a born and bred American, Brit, Japanese or whoever else would say about his/her country - so no hard feelings, guys!

If this born and bred Brit had to leave South Africa for any reason, he'd go and live in another African country such as Botswana, Mozambique or Tanzania......... he sure as hell wouldn't go back the politically correct madness and shitty weather of the UK.

Last time I was there I felt (to coin a phrase) like a stranger in a strange land.