I just got back from Zimbabwe. Only got to hunt 6 of 18 days due to wife's illness, but those 6 days were outstanding. Going back on Oct 25 to finish with 15 more days. After what I saw, I'm going for more firepower, so
here's my new two gun battery:
416 Weatherby loaded with 300 or 350 gr Swifts for everything under Ele or buff, BUT
with 400 0r 450gr solids in the belt. Building this on a cz 550 with Lilja barrell.
450 Dakota for Ele and buff. On order for August delivery.
I have been using a 375 h&h and a 416 rem mag. I love shooting both of them, but those
damn elephants at 12-15 yards in heavy jess bush are HUGE! On 5 of the 6 days I hunted, we tracked and got within spitting distance of bulls. On at least 2 occasions, we were right smack in the middle of a herd of buffalo with elephants mixed in. To be in
the midst of all of that snorting, trumpeting, and crashing around was undoubtedly the neatest thing I have ever
experienced. (Please forgive my exuberance. As you can tell this was my first time with
dangerous game.) The proximity, however, made me think of Tim Allen's classic line on
Home Improvement, MORE POWER!
The 416 did its job. A 400gr A-frame on an 80
yard heart-lung shot on a buffalo cow for bait completely exited. She went about 20 yards and down she went. A 400gr TB Sledgehammer solid on an 18-20 yard frontal
brain shot on a tuskless cow dropped her in her tracks, BUT then she got up. The PH said
she turned her head just as I shot, so the bullet angled right along the side of the brain. Two quick heart-lung shots and she was finished.
So, I know that the 416 rem mag is effective,
but is it enough at close range in thick bush? Not for me. Those elephants and buffalo
up close are just plain BIG. If I could afford it I would build one of Saeed's "tank
guns"!
All kidding aside, I really appreciate this forum. As a relative beginner at this, what I have learned here is invaluable.
Wes
PS Two questions:
1. I know some of you guys shoot the 450
Dakota. How has it performed for you?
2. Does a low power Swarovski scope have
enough eye relief for killer recoil?

Sounds fantastic! Hope you got pics.

I'll let the heavy haulers answer the questions on the 450 - my biggest rifle is a 416! HMMM...?

Don

DWS,

Check my thread on Quick Twist from a few days ago.

I tested the 458 x 404 at 2,400 fps with solids in 3/4 inch plyboard. the 416 and 375 at different twist.

Andy

DWS - I hope your wife is better. The last thing you want to do in Zim is get sick. I would rather have the local veterinarian work on me rather than go to a hospital in Zimbabwe.

As to your question - I have a Dakota 76 African in the 450Dak. I had it build on Don�s special select Bastogne, double cross bolt, with quarter rib and 24" barrel. I shoot 500gr Woodleigh Solids and Softs at 2350fps to 2400fps. It prints cloverleafs at 100 yards off the bench.

While I would not hesitate to take an elephant with a .416, the .450Dak is a wonderful cartridge with plenty of available power. You can load it down to a. .458 WinMag or load it up to a .460 Weatherby type performance. I have shot two buff with my .450. Both cases were one shot kills. Both went down upon impact. One stayed down, the other struggled to its feet and then dropped within a few yards. I think you will find exceptional performance out of your .450Dak.

I take it that you are interested in ele. A word of advice - When you get your gun, put together 4 dummy (un-primed) cartridges. Make sure your gun feeds the rounds properly from the magazine. I have all the faith in the world in the Dakota actions, however, your life can depend upon that second and third shot. You will be running after dangerous game with a new gun - make sure you are quit comfortable with it.

Good luck and good hunting!

Z

Forgot to add - Swarovski 1.25 to 4 X 24 in the 30 mil tube and Talley QD mounts. Plenty of eye relief to prevent scope booboos.

[This message has been edited by Zero Drift (edited 07-08-2001).]

I would concur with ZD, in that make sure the new rifle is feeding all the rounds from the magazine as I just had to do with my Lott (a 450 Dakota for sissies).

As you found out, talk is cheap about hunting dangerous game until you've been amongst them. And as I have said before, give me all the horsepower I can handle.

Those 416's make good prairie dog rifles!

Every rifle is to big and heavy when you have to carry it. Then when it comes to faceing something that wants to grind you or eat you nothing has enough power. The bigger the better sometimes the lighter the faster is better some times just be glad that you could carry instead of haveing to beat them off with your bush hat.

Inasmuch as the 416 Rem performed just fine, do you think a 416 Wby will improve performance? Fact is it won't, and in fact it just might work the opposite...If you want more performance on big stuff then you need a bigger hammer in the form of 45 or 50 cal...that will give you a mental boost.

All that said, your over reacting..your mind is playing games with you...you were perfectly well armed and using a bigger gun may or may not help, I doubt it....

I have used the 416 Rem and 404 Jefferys along with the 505, 500 Jefferys and I have seen the 577 and 500 NE's in action...I'll stick with the 416 Rem and 404 or my enimic 450-400-3" for everything.

Kinda like the 270, 7x57, 308, 30-06, 7 Mag, there's not enough difference in any of them to make or break a situation..

Good accurate shooting is worth a lot of extra milimeters..

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Andy
Thanks for referring your article. I am printing it off for my "gun knowledge" file.

Zero Drift
My wife is doing much better. Thanks for
asking.
Your point about the action is "dead on" so
to speak! I totally agree with you. As a general rule, I will not go out in the field
with a new gun unless I have fired it at least a 100 times from fully loaded magazines. I have read too many horror stories about new guns falling apart. If I got to Africa and my gun broke I would probably cry, even more so if it broke and I
got freight-trained!

Will
Your phrase "until you're out amongst them"
is damn sure right. I have studied The Perfect Shot, studied shot placement photos on the net and read a lot of material. Intellectually, I knew about the shot angles, etc. on the elephant. But when we got up close on the first one in that thick
bush, I just couldn't get over how BIG they
are! 400 grains vs. 4-6 tons. HMMMM.

Thanks for your responses.
Wes

DWS,

when an ele cow is dropped by a shot which missed the brain, the time to recovery and getting up is far more longer with a .458 500 gr at 2400 f/s than with a .416 400 gr at 2400. This phenomenon is not to explain by simple energy difference or indexes, but must be associated with the special interaction of the bullet with the liquid filled honeycomb structure of ele cow heads.

BTW, with 400 gr at 2600 f/s the Dakota 450 is also an ideal stuff for any other game in the thick jesse os the Zambezi valley.

Ray
You responded while I was typing.
If you look at what I said, I think you will
see that I agree with you. I am saying I am
going to use a 416 weatherby with 350 gr for
smaller stuff. I am getting a 450 Dakota for
ele and buff.
You are probably right about my mind playing
tricks on me. I was and still am one fired
up son of gun! That was more fun and more exciting than I even imagined it would be.
But, be that as it may, I still want MORE
POWER.

Thanks
Wes

Norbert:

Thanks for your input on this one. I'm with you...more horsepower.

Ray, How many times do we see the first timers wanting a bigger hammer. I will bet if you get to go enough times you will make a full circle on your choices.
George

George:

Are you trying to take all the fun out of this topic? Quit being so practical!

DWS just had his first "up close and personal" with ele. If that cow had been brained we would have seen a small book written praising the virtues of the 416. But since she got up, of course he wants a bigger hammer.

Even Tony Sanchez-Arino took a step up to the 500 Jeffery.

I am just dying to get back to see what difference, if any, the Lott makes compared to the 470. If it wasn't for that darn thing called money...

Will,
Your right of course. Experminting is half of the fun. This way after years of experience you can have some good comparisons. Heck, if I could go on an elephant cropping scheme, I would take two or three different calibers just for my own edification.
George

[This message has been edited by George Hoffman (edited 07-09-2001).]