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I just caught up on this and I just cannot believe that one of our PA Troopers could be wrong!    | |||
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I can! | |||
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One, my thoughts exactly, it was tongue in cheek. | |||
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As a suggestion, I'd have a talk with the PA State Police (possibly someone in investigations or a supervisor), explain the problems it caused and see if they could double check the report and correct the NCIC data if it actually indicates your rifle. You don't want to have to jump thru this hoop in the future possibly after the FFL or Importer has gone out of business. Just a thought... | |||
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Nice of the Customs guy to take the extra time to "right a wrong". Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Yeah, really nice of the "dumb, ignorant, corrupt, incompetent, Barney Fife officer " to do such a thing. You guys really kill me; seems it is true a little intelligence is a dangerous thing. And if that is the case the nay-sayers here are as dangerous as a black mamba. It never seems to amaze me how the cop is the lowest form of human being existing until some of your shit comes up missing, or maybe your drunken brother-in-law is beating your ass, or someone sexually assaults your three-year-old daughter, then you love the cops. I guess none of you have EVER made a mistake, either at work or otherwise. Must be nice up there on your pedestal, looking down at the lowly officer just doing his job, based on what the owner of the gun told him. You see, the cop never got to see the gun; it was STOLEN when he got there. So he doesn’t know if it is a double-barreled slingshot or a 108 MM field piece. All he has to work with is the person making the report, you know the guy, the gun owner who never lied to a cop. The cop takes his word for it and enters the weapon (see earlier post). N. Garrett, you have been watching too much CSI and Law and Order. Go to the library and look up the "good faith exception". It will tell you how if an officer acts in good faith, i.e. "Not truly aware that they are violating the subjects fourth amendment rights (Bennett & Hess 1991)" then there is no unlawful seizure. Or maybe I have been doing this all wrong for the past 13 years. I have seized numerous items (guns, knives, cash, you name it) over the years and when the owner showed proof of ownership I gave it back, and not a single day in Federal Court have I spent. If I am a little harsh or seem to be venting, tough luck. Its been a long week already; I have been trying to track down the guy who truly did sexually assault his three year old niece Sunday morning, but his family is being "untruthful" to the police. I know, strong word, cause no one here has ever LIED to a cop, but where I work and live they do. Mike, I am truly glad it all worked out for you and hope some of my info was useful. On behalf of Law Enforcement I want to thank you for your professionalism and not slamming the cops as some did here. Cops are just like the rest of you; they got a job to do. Eterry Good luck and good shooting. In Memory of Officer Nik Green, #198, Oklahoma Highway Patrol Troop G...Murdered in the line of duty 12-26-03...A Good Man, A Good Officer, and A Good Friend gone too soon | |||
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Eterry, The good faith exception often becomes what is termed "a question of law", and in that case, it becomes a question for the court. The reason you don't see it very often is because most of the people you deal with can't afford attorneys for civil cases or for injunctive relief. Sure there are lots of good cops...who doubted that? Having said that, many law enforcement officers are distinguishable from criminals only by their badge. As to expecting the police to help when the shit hits the fan, well, um, yes. You see, that's their job. You probably missed that week in the Police Academy. Man, the public is so unappreciative of you guys. I wonder why that is? Oh now I remember, many LEO's are bullies who execute their own personal beefs under color of law. Garrett | |||
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A couple of comments. First, this thread was about a rifle that was reported as stolen. I really did not see any indictment of law enforcement by anyone here prior to this comment. Most of us recognize what the work is like, and more than a few of us have first hand appreciation for that fact. You post here does NOT further the interests of law enforcement. Rather, expresses a holier than thou attitude devoid of any reason. Second, with respect to the situation that triggered most of the "offending" comments, your rant here attempts to defend the indefensible. The rifle reported stolen was a muzzle loader. The rifle in question was a breech loading side by side double rifle. The serial number belonged to a rifle that was not imported to the United States until over a year after the report of a stolen rifle was made. Unless the person filing the report was a psychic that somehow obtained a bill of sale from the future via a time machine, the information on the report is wrong. Despite these facts and documentation to back them up, after being presented with this information the trooper who took the report continued to be admament that the rifle was in fact the stolen rifle and vigorously objected to the return to its rightful owner. A position that flies in the face of hard facts and any rational thought process. Is that what you would call "good faith"? Defending actions such as this only creates a negative image - law enforcement can do no wrong and is always right. You will not find a person more supportive of law enforcement efforts than myself. But being supportive does not mean losing one's sight. And it is in everyone's best interests, yours included, to preserve the credibility of your profession - and that means recognizing problems when they occur and not glossing over situations of abuse of one's authority. To do otherwise is to lose all credibility leading to the loss of the public trust. Sorry for the thread highjack. I hope we can get back on topic. SCI Life Member DSC Life Member | |||
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As the son of a Federal Law Enforcement officer, I've grown up around cops. just like any other random sampling of the population, there will always be a certain percentage whom are a$$holes and idiots. The thing that I get a little tired of is the cops who are so jaded that they see every single civilian as a criminal who just hasn't been caught yet. I also hate to see city boys who have never held a gun until the police academy. I was out shooting clay targets on the outskirts of town and a sheriff came rolling up. I opened the action of my shotgun, set it on my tailgate, and walked AWAY from the vehicle, so he wouldn't feel threatened. He got out with his hand on his holster, and asked me "what the hell I was doing" I told him. He told me I had to leave, because "my bullets could travel over a mile." I tried to educate him, but decided it would be easier to lock my truck in 4WD, and climb onto a hill where his car could'nt make it, and continue with my practicing. Mark Jackson  | |||
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The comments were about Pa State Police. Yea they have their hand out all the time. They want every thing for nothing of at a discount and it isn't as if they are under paid. As had been said they are just a cross section of our society the good, the bad and the ugly. | |||
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This kind of thing scares the crap out of me. I just called dispatch and had them run both my doubles. My 500 Merkel came back with a hit in you guessed it Pa. The serial #s match but the stolen gun was a .22. This could create a problem if the investigating officer doesn't get all of the info. Lee, I'm glad that your ordeal worked out. I hope this will be a lesson to all of us to do a little checking before we put our guns in jeopardy. I do think if the gun is in fact stolen that the rightful owner should have his property returned with no undue delay or further cost to him. As a dealer I have no doubt purchased a stolen gun or 2 at my store or possibly at a gun show. At this time there is no way for a dealer to check to see if a particular gun is stolen. I can do it because I am also LE. If you call your local LE office they may be receptive to doing a check for you, but if your gun comes back with a hit you may have a problem on your hand. You can borrow money, but you can't borrow time. Don't wait, go now. Savannah Safaris Namibia Otjitambi Trails & Safaris DRSS NRA SCI DSC TSRA TMPA | |||
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Brain1 Where in PA? I am wondering whether it is possible for different manufacturers to have overlapping serial numbers? Just seems strange this issue has now arisen twice recently, both involving Merkel 500's. Two cases certainly does not make a pattern, but the second one in just a few days begin to point away from this being a random mistake. SCI Life Member DSC Life Member | |||
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Glad things worked out for you, your work paid off in gathering the records. In my experience they were checking serial # in 2001. M77 | |||
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Weird! The rifle in question in my case was reported stolen in Washington, PA on 8/6/2003. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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Jim, They didn't say where in Pa it was. The only reason I called and checked was because of Lee's problem. As an FFL holder I can tell you there are many companies that issue the same serial #s. I'm just glad that I know for sure my Merks check out clean. I knew they should but after Lee's ordeal I just wanted to be sure. You can borrow money, but you can't borrow time. Don't wait, go now. Savannah Safaris Namibia Otjitambi Trails & Safaris DRSS NRA SCI DSC TSRA TMPA | |||
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One last update. I met with the Customs Agent on Saturday to get my 4457 and he told me the rifle that was stolen was part of a 40+ collection of rifles that were stolen from an individual. He also said that a few of the rifles had been recovered and that they had been recovered when people were trying to get 4457s to take them to Africa. Given that, I would expect that Customs will be running the serial numbers on your rifles when you go in for a 4457. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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I think that is the point! Did we ever decide whether this was SOP for getting a 4457? I have obtained several 4457's and none of the serial numbers were checked by Customs before issuing the form. Now, this was a couple of years ago, so procedures might have changed. It certainly makes sense to perform the check, otherwise what would stop someone from stealing firearms and then taking them out of the country? Having said that, as I understand it, the 4457 is mainly required for bringing the thing back into the country! Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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I think it is good they are trying to find those rifles. Even though you suffered an annoying delay I am betting the person who had such a lagre collection stolen is hoping for them back. Fortunately, Customs is doing their job. ~Ann   | |||
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Ann, I agree. It was a painful process, but if my collection was stolen I would hope that everything possible was being done to recover my rifles. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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I am curious as to where it is stated that Customs is suppose to check Serial #'s or this is there own, and unauthorized, initiative. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Will! Where is it stated that any law enforcement agency shall check NCIS for stolen guns? It is just part of good law enforcement. Customs is charged with assuring the legal import and export of all goods including firearms. Taking out of the country a stolen firearm seems to fall easily into their jurisdiction. As others have stated above it is a good thing that they are checking. 465H&H | |||
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