Help me take the heat off of Wendell.

I want to hunt a trophy bull elephant. In the worst way. I have an offer for a trophy bull that I don't think I could ever beat, but it is still a lot of money. Especially for a working man, in the same year I am going to retire, during a failing economy, and my 2nd grand child is arriving this year.

While my wife has always been suportive of my hunting, and gone on each safari and loved it, I'm feeling the pressure to stand down. It is not just that she is afraid of elephants, a lot has to do with the money.

What are your words of wisdom?

I wish I could help. I've got the same problem with a leopard hunt.

Seriously, maybe you could push retirement out a year or two or find some discretionary spending to cut out (although if you're like me you don't even buy a Coke from a machine when water is free because the money can be saved for trophy fees, even a dollar here and there adds up).

Good luck,
Andy

Is there any investment you can make with the funds that will appreciate at a greater rate than the hunt will increase in price while you wait?

Tell her you intend to make this your last trip for next several years, but need to take advantage of the international financial crisis to accept a deal that is truly exceptional -- this is a once in a life time opportunity but you understand the need to stand down after this next trip for a while.

Then start working on the excuse for next year. This is similar to how I purchased my last double rifle, three double rifles ago.

You guys are great, we are a lot a like! Keep 'em coming.

If you have enough saved for retirement, the cost of the hunt shouldn't break the bank. Looked at another way, if everything goes wrong in retirement and you're down to your last dollar, the cost of the hunt would likely only cover expenses (and delay being put in the street) for six months.

So, you can either die broke having hunted elephant or die broke not having hunted elephant. I'd opt for the former.

Let me know if this argument works better for you than it has for me.

If a bull elephant hunt is a "life goal" for you, is it going to be easier to swing it after you retire? Probably not. What about working another year to pay for the trip and then some? Regret lasts a lifetime; find a way to go.

I booked a multiple tuskless cow hunt for next July, more than six months ago. Since then, my financial position has, needless to say, changed considerably. I will no longer be retiring in a year or two.
What has not changed is this:
I'm 54 years old and can still walk all day. Will I be able to say this in ten, or even five years? Maybe, with luck.
If you are at retirement age and want this hunt, the clock is ticking. I don't know you or your financial position, so I really have no business advising you. I can only tell you what I'm doing. I'm going hunting.

SBT,
Take 30-40k (if you can) buy krugerands, maple leafs or eagles, gold is at about 730 now. When the chosen one is elected whoops I mean anointed gold should run back to high 9's or even higher. theres not enough to pay for a jumbo but it helps differ the economic offset just now. When in doubt kill a jumbo

You asked for a reality check. Make one. Do you love your wifes peace of mind more than your desire to kill an elephant? To me it's a hands down decision and requires no thought and certainly no advice. My love for my wife would win everytime.

That's a difficult one. I would consider my financial situation and the relationship to my wife to be paramount to the elephant. Remember, you've got all of the ancillary expenses with the elephant as well: dip and pack or having things done in Africa, tanning hide, mounting tusks, etc. etc. The trophy fee is not the end of the matter. If it would cause you financial hardship or put a strain on your marital relationship, then the elephant loses, in my estimation. Simply put: Stand down on this one.

Sorry, but IMHO, what you will recover in the next year/year 1/2 in your retirement account will more than pay for the hunt.

I want to hunt lion in the worst way. I am going to wait it out. What I expect to recover in that time frame will more than pay for it. If I am wrong, I should not have gone anyway.

SBT
All the above advice has been spot on. Your wife is being rational and you seem to respect that. I think you should let her be the judge in this decision.

What I mean is, try to figure out a way to make this hunt happen while still keeping on her good side.

One of the best pieces of advise I have heard is: don't say, "I can't afford it," instead, ask yourself, "how can I afford it."

This is the question you should be asking yourself right now. What do you have that you can part with? We all have a ton of toys that we don't need or use. Before I hunted elephant in 2003 I sold off all my safe queens. I figured that I could replace them after the hunt as money permitted. I have found that I don't really miss any of it enough to buy it a second time. Selling my unused toys was a blessing and allowed me to make the hunt of a lifetime a little less financially traumatic .

What can you sell to pay for the hunt? If you take the financial burden off your retirement account how can your wife complain?

Jason

quote:

Do you love your wifes peace of mind more than your desire to kill an elephant?

Will she have "peace of mind" in this market, elephant hunt or no? Is the cost of an elephant hunt going to put things that much closer to the edge? The cost of a "hot deal" elephant hunt is not going to make much difference to a retirement account in the long run.

You know your situation as well as your wife. If you think that you can find a way to afford it it should not be too hard to use reason to convince her.

Jason

Jbrown adds something of value here. I honestly haven't followed the values of my class three collections over the last year or two years. I always said I'd sell that 1942 thompson 1928a1 when ineeded the money for someting else. I haven't fired her in two years, just too valuable. Between that and the Mp5K I can come close to shooting a bull. Trouble is, when I do gun show to lighten up sometimes I just turn my collection over.
What we have here is a moment of truth. Are you a hunter, a shooter, or a collector at heart? A hunter will sell to hunt, A collector will heep them to collect. It's his primary investnent, anyway. The shooter is the hard one to call. He likely shoot the best guns he can reasonably afford to, and sell more expensive stuff to feed that.
The trouble is, most of us are a combination of all three types, in various proportions
What I've done here is sent this thread off on a tangent, and deserve some appropriate punishment.

Marty,
How is the thompson accesorized, mags? drum? case? maybe you should sell it to me and go shoot a jumbo yourself?

Marty raises a point that was implicit in my answer and I think others have overlooked. I am conservative by nature (banker) and have put off enjoying today for a better tomorrow: childrens' college, retirement, etc. I don't regret any of it, but I do have to face a non-financial reality. Perhaps tomorrow I won't be able to do the things I could have done yesterday, or 20 years ago. Once I could jog 5 miles just to get my blood flowing. Now the stairs wind me. Once I could bench press 325 pounds. Now I struggle to do 25 push ups. Today I could condition myself to pursue an elephant in a sportsmanlike manner. Tomorrow???? God and Mother Nature are often kind and beautiful, but time only moves in one direction and the end isn't always as we hoped. I say, "Do now what you can." Before you know it the decision may no longer be yours to make. Two years ago I spent a lot of money to take my family on safari in Tanzania. I can't remember exactly what it cost. I do know it was a gift that every member of my family will treasure their entire life.

Sorry if I'm a bit depressing folks, but I've been visiting my 85 year old mother in the hospital every night lately. You can't help but think about these things on the drive home.

quote:

God and Mother Nature are often kind and beautiful, but time only moves in one direction and the end isn't always as we hoped. I say, "Do now what you can." Before you know it the decision may no longer be yours to make.

My grandfather could have retired at 55, but he kept his nose to the grindstone until he was 67 and could (physically) no longer work. He had a great deal of time off along the way, but he thought he should wait until he was retired to get serious about taking vacations and such. Now he has been retired for 7 years and has spent most of that time being operated on, and recovering from those operations. But he is financially secure.

I lost my point...

Well, have fun now. Someday may never come.

Jason

How about explaining you've worked all your life to support your family and as part of the reward for that lifetime's work, you get the pension and the lump sum and you don't know how much useful life you have left and would hate but really hate to be laying on your deathbed thinking 'wow, I wish I'd gone on that last hunt'............ and that now, after all that time and work, it's time you simply took something for yourself. - and then straight afterwards took her on a fabulous, unforgettable vacation of her choice.

Tell you wife that she can come spend the couple of weeks with me at the beach.

My wife does not completely understand my passion for hunting. What she does "get" is what it means to me. Having read your posts for many years now, I am quite sure your wife "gets" it as well. Best of luck on your hunt!

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
If a bull elephant hunt is a "life goal" for you, is it going to be easier to swing it after you retire? Probably not. What about working another year to pay for the trip and then some? Regret lasts a lifetime; find a way to go.

I agree with Forrest, if there was plenty of money you wouldn't have a discussion. Sounds to me like you don't have enough $ to retire and do the things you want to do, so don't retire.

I guess you could always dump th wife and go hunting

just joking---a good wife is a true find and count yourself lucky to have one.

try this tactic. keep whining about your desire to go-------------and at some point she will get sick of it and tell you to just go, so she doesn't have to hear about it anymore or put up with your whining

hey it works for me

Just tell her that if you take this trip you promise to die five years earlier to make up for the money in the retirement account!

I justified our last safari by convincing Mrs Blacktailer that we weren't getting any younger and that it was the trip of a lifetime. You can find the results in the hunt reports and it was the trip of a lifetime. Since then, you wouldn't believe the number of things that my wife has justified by saying "Well at least it doesn't cost as much as a buffalo hunt in the Selous". I just say yes dear and get out the checkbook.

SBT:

I won't give you any advice on this topic I'll simply share my situation and thoughts.

My wife and I retired together 6 years ago. We are comfortable enough to take the position that life is too short to not do the things that make us happy. She does her thing in the art world, and I with guns and hunting. It's pretty much that whatever the other wants is okay with both of us. Yet.....

As time goes by my wife and extended family grow in importance to me. Yes, life is short and yes I continue to do that which makes me happy. But in the end, my hunting memories and my gun collection and other interests will have paled by comparison to the comfort my family has given me. At this point in my life, when there is a choice to be made, it is always in favor of family.

Here's wishing you are able to resolve this not so easy question.

Regards........Tom

I think you're asking the wrong folks. If you aren't sitting down for a conversation with your wife instead of asking a bunch of die hard hunters - you've already got your mind made up and you're seeking approval. Take it or leave it, I'm no psychologist.

That said, I had a hunt scheduled in 2006 - and after lying in a hospital bed with my chest cracked open, months of rehab, and paying for my daughter's wedding I told my better half that we just couldn't afford to go. She said we could and we will.

We did. She's a keeper.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by SBT:
Help me take the heat off of Wendell.

I want to hunt a trophy bull elephant. In the worst way. I have an offer for a trophy bull that I don't think I could ever beat, but it is still a lot of money. Especially for a working man, in the same year I am going to retire, during a failing economy, and my 2nd grand child is arriving this year.

While my wife has always been suportive of my hunting, and gone on each safari and loved it, I'm feeling the pressure to stand down. It is not just that she is afraid of elephants, a lot has to do with the money.

What are your words of wisdom?

Its sometimes easier to say sorry than ask please it might work this time

Why not ask the company you're retiring from to forego the gold watch and instead send you hunting for a tusker? Then offer, once you return, to bring in lunch for those that are interested , and show pics/video and give a bit of a presentation.

Worth a try, eh?

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

Do it now as we are not promised anything tomorrow. I am booked to head to Zim in 2009 with a group of 4 friends. Three weeks ago one of the guys who was scheduled to go was killed in a car crash, he was 49 years old.

A few months earlier we were out on the chesapeake bay fishing for stripers and drinking beer and talking about how the trip made no financial sense what so ever but you can always make more money but not more time.

Just do it.

I'm in a little bit different situation than you, but probably pretty similar to that of a lot of folks here. I'm 48 with a government job that pays comfortably (though a lot less than in the private sector) a wife who teaches high school, a mortgage with ten years left on it, a car payment and two kids, 10 and 13. As public employees we have a reasonable pension to look forward to, but not enough, so we save for retirement as well as a little for college for the kids. Thank God our student loans are all paid off!

Can I "afford" to hunt in Africa? Many, perhaps most people, would say no. But I look at a lot of people I've known who died young or had debilitating accidents or sicknesses, as well as how important it is for me to make those trips and I have decided that I can't really afford not to go. My wife doesn't hunt; I can't even get her to come along with me (though I haven't given up on convincing her!) but she knows how important that dream is for me. So instead of making retirement come a little sooner, pay for new living room furniture, etc., I hunt in Africa every few years.

The longer you put off things that are really important to you, the less likely it will be that you will do them!

One extra year of work will buy several hunts in Africa. Plan to retire a year later and go now. That is my plan. All by friends are having heart attacks and stints (My friends ar 47 to 61 years old). I'm going to go until the economy or I collapse.

Can you give a little to get a little?

When I went hunting in Alaska, I later took the wife on a cruise up the inside passage.

When I booked my elephant and buffalo hunt in Zimbabwe, I preceded that by a cruise in French Polynesia and bought a condo where she wanted it. Yep, I spent a lot more on the condo than the elephant hunt, but I still have the condo and it's (hopefully) an asset we could sell.

quote:

Originally posted by SBT:
You guys are great, we are a lot a like! Keep 'em coming.

On a sober note - You could die before you spend all your retirement savings!

Go on the hunt!
Wife may just "put you out of your misery" after the trophy fees all come in!

go man go. Think of it as one of the things on your bucket list. I would bet you are in better shape money wise today than you will be after you retire. Your wife should understand if she cares what you think as much as you care what she thinks.
Good Hunting

How about another perspective? My wife has enough health considerations to make me want to go and do everything that we can while she can. Even though we've only been married for ten years, [neither the first], she is the love of my life and I can't stand the thought of not sharing my love of Africa with her. She does not hunt, but is still willing to open herself to the experiences that go along with the hunt. I want for her to have the opportunity to experience bush Africa with me and make her own observations about whether or not it was worth it. We will both know in June. And I can assure you all that I really can't "afford it".

joec

Scottie Boy, you should just do what I am doing. Stay at home, miss an opportunity of a lifetime and tell all of your friends (me included) that you are not pussy whipped!!

John

Are you being forced to retire?

I don't understand someone complaining about the cost of a luxury in one sentence and then talking of soon to be retirement in the next.


Sounds to me like you need to keep working, at least part time, to fund your hobbies.

I've found that it is easier to ask for forgiveness than approval.

To clarify, I will be at the maximum I can obtain in our state retirement system, so to continue working would be for 25 cents on the dollar. It is not a matter of taking money out of a retirement account. The money has been saved for this specific purpose, but with other investments going down hill.......