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Anybody have any info on Hartmann & Weiss? I have a friend looking for a mauser action from them to base a custom rifle on. I did a google search but just came up with books about guns or guns for sale.

I'm going to post this in the Gunsmithing forum also.

Thanks,

Shannon

H&W are really nice finished rifles although a bit overpriced. For half the money you can get one of the masters at American Custom Gunmakers Guild to build you an even nicer rifle.

For a time, H&W bottom metal/mag boxes were built by Ted Blackburn. Don't know about right now though.

Cannot comment on the actions as components alone, but the finished rifles are truly nice.

The ones that I have seen were truly spectacular. They are not inexpensive.

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Appreciate all the replies. Does anyone have any contact information? Price is not really much of an issue right at the moment - just exploring options.

Thanks,

Shannon

...in certain circles, h&w is considered the most elite of the 'continental' gunmakers, certainly on par with the best gunmakers out of the london...

...for contact information, why don't you try thier website, or hartmann & weiss gmbh, rahlstedter bahnhofstr. 47, 22143, hamburg, germany, t 49.40.677.5585, f 49.40.677.5592...

I haven't been able to locate a website for them. If anyone has it I would love to go there. I'm afraid that if I call someone over there we might have a communication problem.

I once dealt with a dog trainer from Wales. He and I were both speaking English, but we damn near needed an interpreter because of the accents. Anyone who ever spoke to me for two minutes would be able to tell I'm from East Texas!

Shannon
a proud East Texan

Dear Shannon

I speak German
I could call then for you what do you want to know?

Cheers,

Andr�

Russ..

Had you pegged for Mary Ann. Your wild side is showing, you rascal

Hey, why not both?

I would never be able to legally own one of these thanks to Indian laws, and, even if I could, wouldn't be able to afford one. But I would love dearly to drool over their website if someone would post a URL.

Thanks and good hunting!

Hartmann & Weiss
Do NOT have a web site.
They are an old German master gunsmith company and do not know computers, Sorry

I will visit them withn the next couple of months and gather info that I will post in this forum.

Cheers,

Andr�

...was going to say 'certainly on par, if not better than...' but decided to moderate the language on what is decidedly a subjective matter...but have seen what h&w can do, and certainly believe that the company (and perhaps fanzoj and hofer) represent the pinnacle of the state of the art...

Thanks for the offer. Of course this isn't my request, but that of someone who is out-of-pocket right now and can't post. Any information you pick up, etc. would be great. As a matter of fact, if you could pick up some extra I would be happy to pay the postage, etc. if you would mail it to me. Just pm me for my address, etc.

Thanks,

Shannon

Shannon

I will try to obtain some printed information about the rifles and actons.
I will also take some digital photos.
In the mean time your friend can view this .505 Gibbs from Hartmann & Wiess that is for sale at Westley Richards in Birmingham, England.

http://www.westleyrichards.com/gun/used_guns_2_product.php?id=19003

Cheers,

Andr�

I consider Hartmann & Weiss to be the greatest makers of truly fine, bolt-action sporting rifles to ever come out of Europe. They also make better bolt-guns than any of the old English outfits as well.

Even at $22K, the .505 Gibbs that Westley Richards has for sale isn't a bad buy compared to ordering a new one from H&W, especially if you had some high-end stuff to trade, assuming that's acceptable to WR.......

AD

Thorstein Veblen in his Theory of the Leisure Class put forth the concept of "trans-optimal craftsmanship", that is to say things made better and more elaborately than they need to be. H&W definitely falls into this catagory. Any one of a number of makers can build a gorgeous, smoothly funcioning, highly reliable bolt gun. To find someone who can do it with the truly exceptional detail and baroque ornamentation that H&W provide would be a challenge! Personally, given my proclivity for falling down and dropping things, even if I could afford one or if some hitherto unknown rich uncle gave me one, I'd sell it in a heartbeat. What good is a gun you're afraid of getting dirty? However, for those who worship the object rather than its function, they sure are pretty.

They probably are some of the best out of Europe. They can not be compared to the work done here in the USA by the various custom makers we have here. Much of what they make is so over done that it appears hauty.
ss

Pretty or not, we believe in using what you own. Even if it looks that good to begin with, think about how good it would look to you with a few memories on it here and there!

Shannon

Johan, Do you have seen firsthand the work that comes out from the London Work shops, Not only standard guns on display, but collectors items too? I doudt that. Until you can prove that, I don't think you are in position to make any doudt's about the workmanship they deliver.

Here is some H&W history
Gerhard Hartmann was trained in ferlach. Otto Weiss was trained at Merkel. He worked almost 10 years at Purdey Guns And Rifle Makers. Then he hooked up with Gerhard Hartmann. in 1971 Another former Purdey man joined them. Peter Nelson. He build H&W guns in 18 years before setting up his own buisness. They build S/S shotguns square or rounded bodied, D.B. rifles in any caliber, They makle their own Mauser 98-actions in various lengths as well as compact singel-shots based on either the Hagn or Heeren actions.

Schultz and Larsen,



I have never seen a Hartmann and Weiss rifle and neither have I seen any new work by the British gunmakers (London and Birmingham) but I have seen a number of old British guns and frankly I cannot believe that their quality, magnificent as it certainly is, could never be improved upon, ever, by anyone else.



Many years ago, John Olin carried out a series of tests in The American Rifleman which pitted a Purdey best shotgun against a Winchester Model 21 and the 21 stayed tight some several tens of thousands of rounds after the Purdey had suffered mechanical failure. ALF had posted in detail on this very topic some time ago on these very forums.



Again, I cannot comprehend a situation where the British, magnificent guns as they continue to make, would continue to remain so far superior to best quality guns from elsewhere that they would continue to outclass all others in performance and embellishment forever. Holland and Holland make trap guns and so does Perazzi. I wonder, if anyone bothered to check which brand the British Olympic trap team uses. An Ivo Fabbri shotgun would be more desirable than a Holland, Boss, Westley Richards or a Purdey equivalent in some knowing circles. Yes, these are legendary marques and they are great guns - I just cannot accept the idea that they are the greatest guns ever made and that no one else would be able to better their quality, ever.

Does anyone know if anyone in the US sells H&W actions - not the entire gun, just the action?

Thanks,

Shannon

I have had to fix the damnest things in high dollar English shotguns that cost a fortune and had things like fore end latches that would not close flush etc. These were new gun...how in hell did they leave England that way?
English supposedly means high quality but it just means expensive.
I would take a H & W rifle in a nano second. Now you have a real working gun.

Hartman & Weiss are probably better known for their best shotguns.

Why not consider D'Arcy Echols or David Miller for a custom walnut bolt rifle?

Is far as I know Ivo Fabri consentrate his work on sporting guns, and there is no doubt that his guns are equal or even better than the London sporting guns when speaking of Sporting guns. A sweede gunwriter compared the H&H sporing gun as equal as a browning or beretta.
When this is said, I have seen firsthand a number og brand new Purdey guns, Boltrifles, DB rifles, S/S and O/U guns. And I have not seen anything like that. I saw gun nr 86 from 1816 and I doubt that there is anyone that can make a copy of that gun to day, unbeliveble deatails. I have seen the workmansip and it makes you cry. And why should they after almost 200 years of eksperience make guns of lesser quality?

When this is said, again, there is no doubt that the best european gunmakers make guns that can compare with the london guns,but now way in such a way that Joahn writes.

This Purdey/winchester test was intersting, is there a link?

Schulz and Larsen,

ALF had posted on AR in detail on this article in The American Rifleman. I have a copy somewhere in India but am currently in the USA. I shall try and do a search on the forums and revert. Hopefully, I shall find the specific post.

Let me see what I could do...

Good hunting!

http://www.accuratereloading.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=47463&Forum=,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,All_Forums,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,&Words=&Searchpage=20&Limit=25&Main=47420&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=369&daterange=1&newerval=&newertype=w&olderval=8&oldertype=m&bodyprev=#Post47463

Schulz and Larsen,

This link should take you to the post in question.

Good hunting!

/

GUYS!!! I REALLY WANT TO KNOW IF ANYONE IN THE US SELLS H&W ACTIONS. NOT ENTIRE GUNS - JUST ACTIONS. PLEASE!!!

Thanks,

Shannon

ALF,

Thanks for a most informative post as always.

As far as Woodward are concerned, weren't they famous for their very shallow O/U action? I also read somewhere that after their factory was bombed out during WWII, they were acquired by Purdey. I wonder if Purdey did anything with the Woodward design?

Good hunting!

Dear Shannon

I just spoke to Hartman & Weiss and the magnum length action cost 4700 Euro.
They do not normally sell actions but they are willing to make an exception.
I will get a price list from them. I wil translate it and post it here.
Their rifles start at 9500 Euro.

Cheers,

Andr�

I forgot

The normal actions they use is DWM mauser from 1908
You can get that many places, no need getting it from Germany
The magnum length they make themselves

Cheers,
Andr�

Her is a picture of a Hartmann & Weiss in 458 win mag. price 10.000 Euro

Cheers,

Andr�

Andre' - Thanks so much for all the help - email and here. Is that $10,000 European? How much is that US?

Shannon
gotogirl3