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(my apologies if this has been posted already) Saw this for sale on another site tonight. Posting so others can see the rifle - I am not involved in the sale. It is a real piece of hunting history. If rifles could talk, I'd buy this one several beers. http://tinyurl.com/hkt8h4o Glenn | ||
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Damn they are proud of that gun aren't they. | |||
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I'd have thought Jack would've just used his 270 ... ![]() Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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Why is Jack O'connors' 416 rigby being sold? If there is an O'conner museum, is it going broke and needs the cash? | |||
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I could be wrong, but I can't see how either of Jack O'Connor's .416 (asking price $65,000) or Wally Johnson's .375 ($75,000) will sell for anywhere near those prices. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Interesting in the Jack O'Connor article I have posted under "Rifles for Africa" (Page 2 of this forum), where Jack says he used his 375H&H rifle to take all of his lion and both tigers and yet further down the page he does mention using his 416 Rigby to take his finest lion. The article gives the loads that both Jack and Fred Huntington used in their 416's. They made their 416 Rigby cases by turning the belts off 378 Weatherby brass and sizing in a 416R die. | |||
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The wood on this rifle is pretty "ho-hum" and I don't like the tight radius of the grip. I would only consider buying the barreled action, for a barreled action price. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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I believe Jack actually had 2 .416's. As I recall (could be wrong, will have to look it up) his first was on an Enfield action. I don't recall who did the work. C.G.B. | |||
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I thought I remember reading that his 416 was built on a Enfield 1917 action Ken DRSS, PP Chapter Life NRA Life SCI Life DSC | |||
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Many years ago, Jack told me that he picked the wood for this stock for its strength not for pretty. 465H&H | |||
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At the time that rifle was built that was THE DESIGN, The American classic was in its infancy and Roy Wbys Monte Carlo was popular..It was the Birth of Americas greatest gun builders..If you can't understand that then Jacks guns won't work for you...but that gun isn't for sale to take hunting its a collector depicting a time in the gunmaking art.. It is a functional rifle however and although I like the open grip and my guns are English, I will tell you that the tighter grip will not hammer your middle finger like a heavy recoiling straigt grip rifle that tends to slide, regardless of the sales pitch..The same as the wby design or the Monte Claro, they handled recoil as well as any English rifle, it just that they are butt ugly and Id rather be kicked! ![]() I belive Jack O'Connor was an Icon to American shooters and hunters, he was the king and he was the best shot with a rifle Ive ever known and his guns deserve a place in history every bit as much as any of the African greats. Jack made the American classic popular almost single handedly, He made Jerry Fisher, Al Bisen and a host of other famous gun makers a reputation, I think he deserves his rifles in a museum or sold at auction for a million dollars.Opinnions vari, this is mine. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray, It is too bad someone like Robert Peterson didn't build a hunting museum and have these yahoos donate all their old stuff to the museum, or have Peterson buy it when they were gone. All this stuff, Keith, Roy Rogers, O'Connor is going to go to the highest bidder to never be enjoyed by the public. I don't get that people want to buy it. Shooting a rifle owned by someone like that doesn't do anything for me. If I won a billion dollars tommorow I wouldn't buy it, unless I was going to build a museum, which I won't because 99.9% of these hunting oriented museums end up sold when someone passes away. The only ones I know of that is still in exsistence is the Werner Wildlife Museum in Casper, and the Osa Johnson museum. Maybe the Gun Museum in Cody would take good care of it, if someone left them an endowment. 20 years from now, 99% of the people that knew Jack and Elmer will be dead. 90% of them have been dead for many years. Owning a piece of history doesn't make you historical or connect you with the past. I like guns, I like old guns, I like interesting guns, but I am not a collector. I am a hunter, and I reckon something like that ought to be on display somewhere. As for Jack being an Icon. I didn't know him, I know people that have met him. Some of them think the is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Some people think he was a toff, and an asshole toward people he thought were lesser. He had an interesting life, a lot of poeple have had more interesting lives, and maybe they ought to have more notoriety than they do. | |||
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If is was a Blaser, Biebs would be all over it!!!!! ![]() | |||
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It is a nice rifle.Not my choice in style but if he liked it that is what is important.A real African hunter would reject that rifle,IMO.It is something a part time African/N.American hunter would go for...a sheep hunter. | |||
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Any one notice shipping is $750 by ground? Ken DRSS, PP Chapter Life NRA Life SCI Life DSC | |||
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Met a guy who is now dead that ran into Jack in Alaska. They ended up eating breakfast together waiting on a flight in (or out). After he was done Jack jumped up and exclaimed "Anyone that eats breakfast with Jack O'Connor pays the bill" and left. | |||
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I don't dis-like the looks of the rifle, certainly a period piece, but not ugly to my eyes. I too thought I'd read his .416 was on an enfield. He was no fan of recoil, so didn't use big rifles much if I remember right. | |||
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Wasn't some clown asking the same $ for Gordon Cundill's worn out model 70 in .375? At least people knew who O'Connor was and his rifle is in far better condition. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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I have to agree. He did play a significant roll in American hunting history and his rifles deserve a place in some museum like the buffalo bill museum. I thought that there was an O'Conner museum in Idaho? ![]() Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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True or not, that sounds like what I have heard to. I have met Boddington, Chub Eastman, Kai Uwe Denker, Aagaard and a few Australian and German writers that no one has ever heard of. Eastman was a crachety bastard but a nice guy. Boddington was busy, but was a nice guy. Aagaard was the kind of guy that you like no matter what, he was a jewell of a man. I didn't care for Denker, but I think he was sick when I met him. So I will wait to say how I feel until someday when I bump into him again. Top 3 things I care about in gun writing. 1. Techincal proficiency, don't write about what you don't know about. If you don't understand it then don't write about it. Rifle Magazine and Eastman's Journal are the worst at this. 2. Tell me about the product, or tell me about the hunt, or tell me about the experience. Don't spend 9 paiges telling me about something else that isn't connected to the subject of the article. Wieland sucks at this. He is the #1 reason I don't subscribe to Rifle magazine. 3. If you were in the military great, if you have combat experience great, if you were not then don't tell me how you have friends that are SEALS or Green Berets and wear a SEAL Team 6 shirt or a RIP Chris Kyle shirt unless you knew the guy. You know who has friends that are Navy SEALS or Green Berets, other SEALS or Green Berets, and some people they served with before they became SEALS or Green Berets. I had several very good ex-drinking buddies from 20 years ago when we were all E-5's together get into the Navy Spec War EOD program Navy SARC Corpsman Program, and one is a Marine Recon Corpsman, we are aquantances at best now. That is how it is. As a DOD civilian I helped a kid get into SARC Corpman school when he got kicked out of BUDS for a panty raid his last month there. Doesn't mean he and I are tight he was a good kid, and a fellow Wyomingite/Montanan. The command didn't know how to make it happen, so I called people I knew that were E8s and E9s from 20 years ago. I know 20-25 F/A-18 Pilots from my work in a test and development squadron as a civ. We don't go drinking either, people like that hang out with other people like that. We are friendly but not friends. Obviously family is different, if you have a relative that did it, it is one thing. Everything I just said about military service can be said about being a wanna be and stolen valor. If this is your deal, I am not interested. Anyway, enough soap box on that for now. | |||
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Much of the Robert Peterson collection is in the possession of the NRA, and is on public view. | |||
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My last Jack story. I was hunting antelope in eastern Wyoming many moons ago (1986). I brought up the name Jack O'Connor. The rancher smirked and told about Jack hunting a nearby ranch some years previously. He went out the first morning saw a good antelope right off the bat and shot it from the vehicle. By the time the article came out he had hunted hard for several days finally taking the animal after a long hard stalk. | |||
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Didn't somebody pay $250,000 for the pistol that killed Travon Martin? ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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Added insurance maybe? ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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Count down to the Capstick comparison .... 3.... 2.....1...... ![]() ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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I think on page 245 of Boddington's Safari Rifles II that you can see a picture of the rifle with Jack O with a buffalo. It is black and white pic, so I can't say with 100 percent certainty, but under light yeah, I think they are the same. | |||
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Not from me.. I am actually an O'Connor fan. Just thought you all would get a kick out of these stories. | |||
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Jack did own two .416 Rigby chambered rifles that I am aware of. The first was built on a Enfield action by Apex Rifle Company and they fitted the action with one of their Apex barrels. Al Biesen stocked the rifle. Jack made cases for the rifle by turning the belts off .378 Weatherby cases and full-length resizing them. In 1962 Jack took the rifle on one safari, in Mozambique, with Harry Manners as his PH. He took a 40-1/2 inch buffalo with it. His second .416 Rigby chambered rifle is apparently the one that is being offered for sale. It was built on a Brevex Magnum Mauser action in 1966 with Tom Burgess doing the metal work and Bob Johnson doing the stock. Jack took it to Zambia in 1969 and shot his best lion, his only elephant and a buffalo with it. I agree that this rifle belongs on display in the Jack O'Connor Center in Lewiston, ID. Much of his memorabilia, including hunting trophies, manuscripts, his desk and typewriter, a few of his guns, and other items of interest, are displayed there. The center is not supported with tax funds, so purchasing items such as this is impossible. Perhaps some of the folks that now own O'Connor firearms will, when the time comes, leave their acquisitions to the Center. We can certainly hope. | |||
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I photographed that rifle rile several years ago for the B&C Record Book. I can confirm that this is the same rifle I photographed. 465H&H | |||
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I have had the great pleasure of shooting Jack O'Connors' last 270, a Featherweight Win pre-64 model 70 with an Al Biesen stock....I recall? A really fine shooter with some Speer Nitrex factory ammo. This rifle floats between his son and The Center in Lewiston, ID....a place for all hunters to visit. I also have seen the 416 Rigby, owned by one of the hosts of our Oregon Double Rifle Shoots, and close personal friend and hunting partner of Jack's. It would NOT surprise me that this rifle has been displayed at The JOC Center as the owner has been deeply involved in its inception and success over the years. We are all getting older and eventually these fine pieces must move on to new stewards...who knows "the value"?? I expect the price, as usual, will be determined by the old market principle- willing buyer and willing seller AGREE!! I saw Wilbur Smith's 416 Rigby, which had been handed down from his father, and restored nicely, on Guns International last year, $43,000 from a Florida seller...it disappeared...and the economy and GUN ENVIRONMENT in US is A LOT stronger today!! There is a great collector of old safari rifles with provenance, down in Alabama, and a great Video he has produced using some of these guns back in Africa. I hope a diligent collector will pick this/these rifles up at the right price and place them in a collection we all get to enjoy and see on video. Part of Bill's safari rifles collection was generously displayed at DSC last year. Cheers, 470EDDY | |||
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Turns out they did. 0 bids, no sale. | |||
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Its the internet, a big time gossip collum, I have heard bad things on AR about Jack O'Connor, Elmer Keith, Boddington,Peter Capstick, Every author and Gun scribe out there, go back and check..None of them have escaped the wrath of the internet..Its all bullshit and hearsay, He said, she said!! and reeks with jealousy... All of them that Ive known to one degree or another were decent folks, Jack O'Connor was always good to me, I was his 14 year old Coues and Mule deer guide, I liked him a lot and he was the best off hand shot Ive ever known. Boddingtons been beat to death, but hes a good guy and a gentleman of a hell of a lot of experience..Ive only talked to him at SCI and he was gracious. Elmer was an Icon, a tad windy, but he was a hunter and wrote some mighty good stuff. I met him in an assisted living home in Boise some years back..Interesting man. Finn Aagaard was a fine gentile man as was George Hoffman, knew them both well.. I think judging a man you never met and talked to personally is pretty damn cheap shooting.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I AGREE!! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Cheers, 470EDDY | |||
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Great post Ray ![]() "If you are not working to protect hunting, then you are working to destroy it". Fred Bear | |||
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Well said Ray... On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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+4. ![]() Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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