He recomends that I look at the Savage Safari Express Model 116SE or buy a Win Model 70 Pre-64.

Is the quality of current Winchester Model 70's declining?

What opinions do you gentlemen have about the Savage?

How about recomendations of other gunsmiths who might be willing to work with me on this?
I live in western North Carolina not too far from Atlanta or Charlotte.

Thanks.

Ron L

The Savage 116SE does not have true controlled-round feed, and I don't know any hunters who have used it in Africa. I just don't have enough information on its reliability to recommend it to you.

There have been reports on various boards of problems with workmanship and defects with the Model 70; however, you have enough time to get them all straightened out before your hunt.

As for good gunsmiths, there are quite a few on this forum who know how to make an M-70 work properly.

George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

There is a gunsmith here in Atlanta who has had a great deal of experience building DGRs, especially 458 Lotts and 416 Rigbys.

I would think he'd look at working on any project you have in mind, assuming he feels it's in your best interest.

He is reasonably priced and his turn-around time is better than average. He has done outstanding work for me and is the only person I'd use for DGR projects.

If you are interested in more information, please e-mail me.

Basically, I am now happy with the rifle, but I wish Winchester would spend the few extra minutes it take to do it right the first time and use some real bedding material instead of the junk they use.

First; it loads from a straight magazine and is very reliable in its feeding.

Second; the stock and fittings are appropriate to a African dangerous game rifle.

Third; it has an innovative muzzle brake that turns on and off merely by twisting it. It works too, which is good because the 425 Express duplicates 404 Jeffrey ballistics.

Fourth; it is accurate for a big bore rifle.

Fifth, I have shot mine a good bit, and have never had a problem with feeding, extraction, or ejection.

Sixth; it is not a pretty rifle, ie, the action is really unattractive.

The only dangerous game that I have taken was Cape Buffalo, and I used a pre-64 Model 70 in .375HH for that. However, when the moment of truth came, it was at about 20 yards. I concluded a .375HH, which up to that moment I considered a cannon, was not enough gun. I bought mine afterward while I was having a 416/404 made for me.

I understand that the current Savage only comes in .458. I don't know if it is made in .375HH, which is a longer cartridge. I would not disparage the Savage. I think that it will get the job done. I think that you'd enjoy the M70 more as a firearm.

Ku-dude

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

The whole rational is like buying a new house for hard-earn cash, but then not bothering to spend the money for an insurance policy for same. Sort of an exercise in reverse-economy if you'd ask me.......

AD

Your gunsmith is right about the new magazine boxes.

We have some problem ones in Australia. supposed to be a new system Winchester uses that allows both the 375 and 416 Rem to work and in particular the 416 Rem when used with very blunt bullets such as the Hornady 400 grainer..

In fact I was about to buy a blued/walnut 375 that was used for a recent gun test in one of our magazines. It would jam virtually everytime on the second round. Luckily for me, the conditions under which we can buy field tested rifles is that we can send them back to Winchester Australia if we don't like the rifle. By the way the feeding problem was not mentioned in the article. How strange that is

You can pick them by a "scoop" that is out of the middle of the follower. It about 3/4" long and 3/16th wide.

I understand that the earlier versions of the "new system" use the same action rails as the previous models but the later version uses diffrerent rails.

The ones I have see with feeding problems occured with the second round. The round goes to far across to the right and the bullet misses the chamber by a mile.

There is an engineer from Winchester who occassionally post on HuntAmerica. He goes by the name of Headache. Not a good handle for a Windhester employee

I have a stainless one here with the new system. It feeds OK but nowhere near as smoothly as the earlier versions.

Mike

Have a look at the Ruger Magnum Rifle in 375H&H or 416 Rigby, a very nice CRF double square bridge magnum mauser type action.

Very well finished rifle and easily the nicest production Ruger (maybe go as far as nicest product rifle ) going. The examples I have seen have excellent wood and overall finish. More $$ than the Win, but I just can't get enthused about a Savage for any pressure work.

quote:

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Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Ron,
The Savage 116SE does not have true controlled-round feed, and I don't know any hunters who have used it in Africa. I just don't have enough information on its reliability to recommend it to you.

George

---

George, sorry to contradict you, but the Savage 116SE is a control feed rifle! It comes in 300 Win Mag, 338 WinMag, and 458 Win Mag. with a muzzle brake, express sights, and stainless steel.

IMO, one could slick up the feeding, and fit with a synthetic stock, and have a servicable buffalo rifle with the 458 Win Mag, useing handloads pushing 450 gr bullets at around 2200 fps. It is also my opinion, that the 458 win mag does not handle 500 gr bullets effeciently, but with 400, or 450 gr bullets it is a stinger! A 400 gr .458 bullet pushed at only 2100 fps, gives a TAYLOR KO VALUE OF 54, and that ain't bad!

That being said, if I were going to hunt Africa, I would rather have a Mauser, or Mod 70 at the same price or a little less after the work is done on each!

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

[This message has been edited by MacD37 (edited 10-22-2001).]

[This message has been edited by MacD37 (edited 10-22-2001).]

However, the Savage 116 is not a true controlled feeding system because the extractor does not engage the case rim until the cartridge is fully chambered and the bolt rotated into battery.

George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

Crash

quote:

---

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Mac,
However, the Savage 116 is not a true controlled feeding system because the extractor does not engage the case rim until the cartridge is fully chambered and the bolt rotated into battery. George

---

You see? You learn something new every day you are awake! Evidently I was asleep on that one!

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

I have never shot the Savage, just fed rounds through it. I don't believe it has ever been shot.

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It is not enough to fight for natural land and the west; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it's still there. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends...Enjoy yourselves, keep your brain in your head and your head firmly attached to the body, the body active and alive, and I promise you this much: I promise you this one sweet victory over our enemies, over those deskbound men with their hearts in a safe-deposit box and their eyes hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this: you will outlive the bastards.

- Edward Abbey

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

Robert

"Controled round feed on the 116SE provides a positive feeding action when chambering a cartridge. As a cartridge feeds from the magazine, it is held in place under the extractor on the bolt as it moves forward into the chamber, insuring reliable feeding."

I might add the picture is quite clearly a picture of a control feed bolt face!

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

[This message has been edited by MacD37 (edited 10-27-2001).]

[This message has been edited by MacD37 (edited 10-27-2001).]

[This message has been edited by MacD37 (edited 10-27-2001).]

rwj,
The Ruger Mark II Model 77 is a true CRF that is essentially Mauser. You must be thinking about the old pushfeed original Model 77.

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RAB

I was basing my statement on that article; if the Savage is a true CRF, I apologize for perpetuating an inaccuracy

George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

quote:

---

Originally posted by raamw:
I am not a gun expert nor am I familiar with the M70 , I do however own a Savage 116SE in 458 Win Mag.

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Expert or not,raamw, that was a fine description of a control feed action!

The scratches can be avoided by polishing the underside of the feed rails, they more than likely have burrs from the stamping process, that were not smoothed out by the factory. This is not uncommon, and many little things have to be done on OUT OF THE BOX assembly line firearms. This, however does not mean the rifle is substandard, for use in the field! I find that all the Savage bolt rifles I have owned have been tack drivers, once the rough edges were ironed out!

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

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RAB