There have been a number of posts in recent years to the effect that a large meplat solid will out penetrate a round nose due to the cavitation effect.

From these I have gleaned that a 450 grain large meplat bullet like the North Fork or GS at 2250 fps will be at least as adequate on elephant frontal brain shots as s 500 grain round nose at 2200.

I am shortly going elephant hunting for the first time. Am I right?

Indy

I have brain shot elephants with my 450 No2 double rifle with 480gr Woodleigh solids at 2150fps and with 450gr North Fork FP Solids at 2200fps.

The Woodleighs had plenty of penetration, the North Forks had quite a bit more.

A very good combination IMHO for the 458 Win Mag would be a 450gr Flat Point [assuming it feeds OK] and a 450gr Swift A Frame.

I load alot of the Barnes 450grn Banded solids for various PH's at 2300fps in the lott case. More than adequate- alot more than a .375 H&H typically. Dropping 50fps isn't going to make much difference.

In conventional steal jacketed solids we found in parks service you needed 2200fps to equal the penetration of a 500grn Horniday at 2100fps from a .458 (See "Balistics in Perspective" by Mike LaGrange)

They have enough penetration.

I'd be more worried about shot placement than penetration.

The consensus amongst our customers is that the biggest difference between the 450 and the 500gr FNs is that the 450gr FN is more likely to give straight line penetration. For the rest, there is little difference.

450NE No2 reports this in his post:

quote:

I have brain shot elephants with my 450 No2 double rifle with 480gr Woodleigh solids at 2150fps and with 450gr North Fork FP Solids at 2200fps.

The Woodleighs had plenty of penetration, the North Forks had quite a bit more.

I've used 500gr Woodleighs at 2145fps and North Forks at 2190fps and 2220fps.

My results mirror 450 NE No2's; the Woodleighs had plenty of penetration, the North Forks had significantly more.

With North Fork gone, I would turn to GS Custom.

JPK

For whatever it is worth I have used the GSFN 500g (458WM) on both of my elephants both on head shots and body: total 6 rounds between the two at ranges from 9yds to 40yds and we recovered 2 bullets; one from the body and one from the head, all the others exited the other side of the animals. The recovered
bullet from the head deviated a bit from straight line, but, entered the head behind the right ear, penetrated the brain and was lodged under the skin alongside the left eye. In my estimation penetration was sufficient

I am always amazed at the experience and willingness to help shown by the posters here. Thanks, everybody.

I plan to use North Forks. I had about 45 when they went out of business. I don't have to waste them on zeroing because I wrote down where they shot relative to 450 grain TSXs, which I will use for my "soft points."

On future hunts, I would like to try the GS 450 grain solids, if we can get them here in the US.

The 450 gr. GS Customs flat nose solid is the perfect 458 Win. bullet with a good handload, at least for Elephant, and I would opt for it on buffalo without hesitation...

quote:

I would like to try the GS 450 grain solids, if we can get them here in the US.

Availability is pretty good now. Speak to Yukon Delta he posts here from time to time. Prices are in US$ and shipping is USPS flat rate.

Here's another vote for the GS Custom flat nosed mono solid........

I doubt that any elephant would be able to tell the difference between the two.

465H&H

It will, if one bullet curves and misses the brain and the other goes in straight and hits where it was aimed inside the skull.

I have .458 450 FN's right now in stock...close to 10 boxes (same in .375 and .416 FN's).

Gerard!

You need to have more confidence in your bullets!

465H&H

Indy,

The take home lesson from my fairly extensive tests of 458 caliber solids and FMJ's is that the 450 grain monometal is a great choice for either the 458 winchester or the large capacity cases. The 500 grain is probably best in a monometal at much higher velocity, and rotational velocity.

I would be very happy with a 450 grain soft solid combo at 2,400 fps in a Lott.

Or a 500 grain at same velocity in a 450 Ackley, 460 GA, or Dakota/Weatherby/Rigby case.

If I were shooting a 458 win mag I would take the advice given by several here and shoot the 450 FN solid as fast as you can, and use the Swift for your soft point.



Andy

Let me add, that I have recovered 480 Woodleigh Softs and 500gr Swift A Frames from cape buff and eland,
fired from my 450 No2.

Both of these softs penetrated and expanded very well, thus my recomendation for the 450 Swift A Frame in the 458 Win Mag.