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Trax it's not worth arguing about but when you consider a supply of ammo for a 14 month safari there will be far more 7X57 rounds in a supply of the same weight than if the supply is 450/400NE. He wouldn’t have carried the whole supply himself anyway, but the weight of the over all supply for the same number of rounds of those two cartridges would be considerable, not to mention the difference in cost! I carry 40 rounds of 470NE, and an 11.3 pound double rifle on long tracks, but when hunting with my 9.3X74R in a 8.3 pound double rifle the weight of 40 rounds differential is noticeable. But we are not talking just 40 rounds but a 14 month supply! Cost and weight/bulk differential of the same supply of each cartridge for the same number of cartridges would certainly be a logistic problem, and could have certainly been one reason for the 7X57 over a larger bore! When you get down to brass tacks neither one of us knows exactly why he chose the small rifle so it is a moot point! ………………………………………………………..  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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I seriously doubt that the weight of the ammo was an influence in the choice of caliber used by Bell. It was an advantage but not a factor. Those men were also ten times more fit than 99% of all hunters today. They also used pack-donkeys/camels/mules to carry the bulk as well as porters. The camped away from the main camp in a smaller movable camp and also used porters for that. Bell would leave camp in the morning with maybe 40rds of ammo and resupply when he gets back in the evening. He would also have a few trackers/helpers along to remove the ivory while he carried on hunting and they would all meet back at camp at night. He used the caliber of choice because that is what he trusted and felt comfortable with - nothing more and nothing less. Fritz Rabe Askari Adventures & Fritz Rabe Bow-hunting | |||
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Fritz Rabe,  I cant believe some think that the weight of cartridges was why he chose the 7x57!!! He chose it coz it worked like magic! Great choice Mr Bell  | |||
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The choice of caliber was due to historical time and place, nothing to do with weight or even peference. The timeline determined the choice. It is a historical fact ! Many of what we see as classic calibers for African DG hunting had not even been invented yet and some though invented at that time had not reached the shores of Africa yet . It was literally the exact period of ballistics renaissance. We are pre WW1 here. Late 1800's to 1911 For Bell only 12 short years. It was right on the historical transition from large bore BP to small bore flake nitro with the Brits stuck on the inbetween on stick Nitro. Keeping BP dry was a problem. Stick nitro was a equally difficult propellant to deal with. There is ample evidence to support this in the writings of just about every adventurer of the time. Contrary to the modern romance for the Old Nitro large bores hunters of the time found them to be cumbersome and the recoil difficult to manage, once again ample evidence in their written record. What is more large bore BP's and Nitro's were expensive and the actual numbers made were few. The actual performance of the small bore nitro's of the time was far superior to the large bores of the time. They fired RN jacketed FMJ and Jacketed SP's another turning point in history, the large bores still fired lead. And they had large capacity magazines. The 45 cal BP's loaded with patched lead bullets very popular with the old time hunters were mostly single shots. For anyone interested in the history of terminal ballistics and the real application of ballistics to hunting and warfare here is a interesting graph. It shows the timeline in small bore ballistics invention and the relationship of the development of bore size, velocity and Sectional density in applied ballitics over time.  | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by ALF: The choice of caliber was due to historical time and place, nothing to do with weight or even peference. [COLOE:RED]Contrary to the modern romance for the Old Nitro large bores hunters of the time found them to be cumbersome and the recoil difficult to manage, once again ample evidence in their written record. What is more large bore BP's and Nitro's were expensive and the actual numbers made were few.[/COLOR] Gentlemen nobody I know of said the weight was the only reason for the choice of the small bore rifles Bell used. However, as ALF says the time line had more to do with many choices of the time. I believe I said that in my first post "They being a product of the times!". The fact remains that a supply for a 14 month safari the difference in weight would allow one to carry hundreds more rounds into the field when useing a small bore rather than the heavy and bulky big BP, or Nitro rounds of the day. Not only that but also as ALF said the big bore ammo was very expensive as well. I would say that when one sets out to supply a 14 month safari no matter how it was transported, weight, bulk, and cost would be a ligistic factor. Certainly that was not the only reason Bell chose the 275 but having several hundred more rounds of ammo in the field would be a plus! IMO, which means nothing it seems, Bell's main reason was he was recoil shy, but the other reasons WERE a factor! If that opinion doesn't agree with your's you are not required to agree with me on any subject! Opinions vary, but one is no more valid another as both are, after all, OPINION! ................................................................................................. ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Gentlemen nobody I know of said the weight was the only reason for the choice of the small bore rifles Bell used. However, as ALF says the time line had more to do with many choices of the time. I believe I said that in my first post "They being a product of the times!". The fact remains that a supply for a 14 month safari the difference in weight would allow one to carry hundreds more rounds into the field when useing a small bore rather than the heavy and bulky big BP, or Nitro rounds of the day. Not only that but also as ALF said the big bore ammo was very expensive as well. I would say that when one sets out to supply a 14 month safari no matter how it was transported, weight, bulk, and cost would be a ligistic factor. Certainly that was not the only reason Bell chose the 275 but having several hundred more rounds of ammo in the field would be a plus! The unfortunate thing today is folks want to use Bells choice as an excuse for useing illegal cartridges for DG game hunting! IMO, which means nothing it seems, Bell's main reason was he was recoil shy, but the other reasons WERE a factor! If that opinion doesn't agree with your's you are not required to agree with me on any subject! Opinions vary, but one is no more valid another as both are, after all, OPINION! ................................................................................................. ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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To the point I was attempting to get across earlier, Bell returned from a 14 month Safari laden with about 19,000lbs of ivory.[9.5 short ton]...from 180 tuskers. considering he was not burdened to carry any ivory on the outset,..then Im confident his large onterage of porters and animals, could have easily accommodated[coped with] the bulk & weight[distributed?], of a stock of ammunition for say a .450/400[and a diminishing supply at that]. 1000 rounds 7x57 is near 62.5lbs in weight. 1000 rounds .450/400 is near 125lbs in weight. If your concerned about the bulk, well lets look at this for example; this modern day guy has a heap of rounds on his back. | |||
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MacD37 and ALF have far more eloquently put into words most of the ballistic and historical points I have been trying to say. Re-read the first sentence of my OP and it puts the post in perspective. Weight and choice had very little to do with what Bell used. He had to use what was available and what worked in the conditions of the time. His early rifles were all cheap off the shelf firearms available at any good (coastal) supplier. The veneration of the 7x57 is a myth when he himself preferred other rifle/calibre combinations. Harry Selby has been quoted in this thread and his purchase of the .416 Rigby was not by choice but by necessity, just as the 7x57 was by Bell. I'll quote Harry Selby in an issue of Sports Afield. 'The only heavy rifle I could find was a Rigby .416 at a dealer by the name of May & Co.' 'In the end, I had no option. I bought it, hoping to replace it with another double .470 as soon as possible-'. The calibre and rifle went on to become famous because it worked, it was written about by an author with a large audiences and not by choice. A very fortunate outcome. | |||
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Her certainly didnt mind using other chamberings... If the 6.5x54ms ammo had not been defective, Id say its likely Bell could have continued to kill the other 1000 elephants[and several hundred buffalo] with it, instead of switching back to his 7x57 & its more trusty DWM ammunition. Bell does not seem to indicate that he was down on the .256"[6.5mm]bores ability to do the job on DG, he just didnt want to unnecessarily endanger himself by having to use its defective ammunition. - He certainly does not mention that he felt under gunned. “Back at camp, I found that the Austrian ammunition I was using was defective. In this particular batch, some split at the neck of the cartridge when fired, and others simply refused to fire at all. “Thinking about what had just happened, I broke into a cold sweat: suppose I hadn’t missed the buffalo? I could easily have been killed when the ammunition failed to fire. I had been very lucky not to have wounded the buffalo, only frightened him. I read that Selous once had a very similar experience. “After that, I stopped using the beautiful little .256 and went back to my trusty 7 mm Mauser. Using German (that is DWM) ammunition, I never had a problem. “And I was never charged by a buffalo after this, because, quite simply, they never got the chance to charge me: I made very sure to kill them first, and used only the Mauser with DWM." I would not venerate[make Godly] Bell,Selby,the 7x57,416 Rigby or Paul Mauser, nor do I envy or dreamily desire to emulate their success, but will give each the sound acknowledgement they rightfully deserve. | |||
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For me; my admiration has never been about the rifle. It has been about the Man that Bell was. To explain: I have known some great shots, I have known some great physical specimens of ability and health, I have known some great persons who could relate to anybody and pick up languages and understand cultures very quickly. However: I have never know anybody who thought that the skill to see in one's mind's eye the bullet path over the top of intervening screen of bush to the heart of a bull Giraffe at Five hundred yards was a trifling matter, or could shoot the small bore rifle with both eyes open with great success to the brain of an elephant from almost any angle and thought by telling us about it and drawing some graphics one could pass that skill on to others. That is a gift not a skill. (Bell provides the amount of ammo used compared to the bag of elephants for those who want to know that. Read it until you find it and you will enjoy the trip.) I have never known anybody who could walk the miles, run the miles, in the African landscape doing what he did in the game fields with so few maladies and problems. “without so much as a hangnail” I think another writer quoted as illustration of this good “luck” of Bell’s. I have never met, though I have heard of others who could travel successfully among the natives like Bell did but when he did and in the warring conditions he did? Not me. All of this was in one guy. One guy who indeed used the guns he had and yes he used a selection. But to say he did not adore the 7x57 and the solid bullet would be to say you did not really read his books. “Never a soft nose ever polluted that perfect barrel” is a statement about both the rifle and the cartridge he shot in it and a statement of adoration for the quality of the tool. What would he choose today? I have not a clue but it would be “small bore” with solids as he wanted and softs as he might, as he described and the rifle would be light and handy. Would he like the 308 or the 30-06 with a 220 Grain Barnes? How about the 35 Whelen and the Barnes 250 solid or the old 275 Copper solids? How about the 9.3x62 with the 286 Barnes solids and the 286 Nosler Partition? How about the 260 Remington with a 160 grain Hornady RN for his camp meat and donkey saddle gun? How about how he would have felt about any or all of these with today’s fantastic and reliable ammunition? I don’t know but I bet he probably could have been happy with any or all of that if left to his own devices and plan. As far as how he ranks compared to men who might be able to do the same today? I don’t know that either but if I had to bet on Bell or one of any 10 professionals today in the Elephant hunting game. I would not bet against him of that I am sure. You see I really don’t care what gun he used but he seemed to and he told us all about that and left it for us to enjoy and learn. We all have, or could have, benefited as shooters and hunters by the life and writings of WDM Bell. It’s a choice. I am currently watching my 11 year old son read these books and learn about the life and times of a unique man. I think he will be profited by it. Best regards, dmw "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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Frostbit, thank you for the Selby post, great stuff! | |||
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My pleasure Sir!  ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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I must bring my .303 Mauser on an elephanthunt next time. Are there countries in Africa where one could shoot elephant with a smallbore?. Great thread here..  DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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Bell's use of the 6.5 x54 MS is interesting in that the only account of him actually using it happens in the 9 months that he hunts the Lado circa 1909. By own admission the Austrian ammo is at fault not because of an inadequacy to kill elephant but what can be seen as seasonal cracking of the brass. What is even more bizarre is that the 6.5 MS gets a bad rap in England as a deer rifle as it's muzzle energy is deemed below the legal limit set by the so called "deer laws" and yet Bell describes it with the 7mm and the 303 as "one shot elephant killers". | |||
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Nice post Fury01, my feelings too. | |||
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Jens- Moçambique you can still legally hunt elephant with a 7x57 or .303. Not being good at the lingo I wasn't sure if minimum cal was 6,5 or you had to use something larger than 6,5...anyway your .303 is comfortably legal. Having killed my first elephant with a 7x57 and then a couple more (big bulls) with 7,62 Nato ball before 'upgunning' to a 9,3... Bell also wrote that an ideal rifle should weigh more than 6,5lbs nor have too much recoil to preclude shooting from the top of a ladder (with two trackers holding the lader while he balanced on top to shoot over the tall grass) Even my 9,3 weighs in at 7lbs (kevlar stock) and Leupold delta point and 5 in the mag. | |||
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Thanks Ganyana!!. I am sure using a smallbore does take a few elephants downed with more heavier calibers in order to get an idea what elephanthunting is all about. I have nor yet shot an elephant but it is a furture plan. This tread is one of the really goos thread here on AR with many good insight contributions from experienced people in Mausers as hunting. I use a .333Jeffery in my general african hunting but why should a 215grain solid in .312cal not penetrete as much as the 300grain Jeffery bullet?. DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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On the other hand Jimmy Sutherland used two massive 577NE's around the same error. | |||
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And still failed to stop an elephant or too. Bell and the 7x57 is romantic nonsense. If you use one against elephant all you'll do is give the PH target practice. Maybe that's why they wouldn't mind you using one. There are a lot of f*ckups when guys are out elephant hunting that they never admit. Including the practice of using little guns. Only the bullshit ever rises to the surface. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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I do not totally agree with this statement. Wounding is a result of bullet failure - bad bullet design or placement. The size of the bullet does not determine wounding. A .577 that fails to reach a vital organ means less than a 6.5 that does. It boils down to practice for hunting, not from a bench and putting a GOOD bullet in the vitals. Fritz Rabe Askari Adventures & Fritz Rabe Bow-hunting | |||
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Will, "Bell and the 7x57" is fact, well documented and without doubt from credible sources. You or me using a 7x57 could well be giving the PH target practice. Just to be clear about it. dmw "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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I agree. There is a part of my logical brain that tells me that the old hunters sought huge rifles to overcome inadequacies in bullet design. I have a sneaking suspicion that had the old guys had access to CEBs, Barnes Solids, GS, Northfork etc, there would have been fewer 577s and more 375s or smaller out there and the guys would have been happy with them because the bullet would have gotten to where it was aimed without the punishing recoil that 'damaged nerves' as mentioned by Selous. How many animals were/are wounded due to flinching? I also think Bell was unique with his near obsession with dry-fire practice. Apparently he was always snapping his rifle and by doing so made the rifle a literal extension of himself. This isn't romantic, this is what incredible shots do. Todd Jarret is like a machine; they don't get that good by taking the pistols/rifles out a month before they leave and see what its doing on paper. The idea that an elephant with a 7 x 57 is just giving the PH target practice leaves out the fact that a) we know the modern bullet design can get to the brain from any angle and b) supposes the hunter does not know where to shoot the elephant. If both of those conditions are taken care of, there is no logical reason why a shot to the brain from a 7mm won't kill as well as a 577. A recent video shows 11 shots from a 470 couldn't do the job, KO factor or not. Don't worry, I'm not a proponent of changing game laws to allow this, but it's not romantic to be impressed of, or to wish one could emulate the feats of Bell. | |||
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Bell like other noted professionals/champions in their field[golf, motor racing,etc]..have something in common; extensive practice,practice,practice and practice some more! Not only did Bell practice, he went to the effort to extensively learn the anatomy of the beast,just like great champion golfers & rally drivers go to the effort to extensible study the anatomy of the course. The best most advanced golf clubs in the world are most unlikely to make you a Nicklaus, Palmer or Tiger Woods [seems Tiger spend much more time & effort preparing & practicing, than he does competing-hunting opponents on the course] Nor will the best piano or guitar in the world likely to make you a Liberacy or Hendrix.. Many people have-can afford high horse power well handling-braking motorcycles and super-cars. Yet a lot of those people don't actually know how to drive or ride properly,or make the most of the real capability of the equipment. Much more capable people can with seemingly less capable equipment, leave those others in their wake. I still get great satisfaction by watching a great magician who uses only an plain ordinary deck of cards. Talkng to these magicians they have told me, that the trick is not that complicated, that much much practice, to refine-master their technique, is what makes the trick appear so fascinating. They themselves don't get much joy from knowing how to master a trick[by that time it has usually become rather un-enthralling, monotonous and boring to them]..they get their joy and sense of satisfaction from how well the audience/crowd responds...knowing that all the effort was worth it. Bell found all that dry firing and anatomy study was worth it [it payed off]- by allowing him to become proficient at culling elephant for ivory. Id say some of Bells achievements were somewhat of an anti-climax to him, yet like the magician,champion golfer or race driver, we are,from the outside looking in, enthralled & in admiration & acknloledgement of what he has accomplished. Some have to please the crowd to be considered successful/generate income, others might just need to proficiently fill-maximize their ivory quota. | |||
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I believe greatness starts with a gift. Some call it natural talent. On that foundation, training, practice, determination, physical capabilities all are stacked, mixed and improved. Without the foundation of the gift, one simply attains being good and sometimes very good. Great stands alone on a “gift.” I have been blessed with the opportunity to know people with the gift of being a great shot. One is near death in Upstate NY and I have not seen his equal with a shotgun. That includes the International Skeet Olympians from USA, Canada, and Germany that used to come and shot with him so he could tune them up. They all probably at the time could break more birds than he on the IS field, at the time, but he could during the lesson, in his hunting coat grab a pump gun with a cut off barrel, no bead, punch the pull button, load the gun from a shell in his hand and break any target on the range while yelling at the young Olympians about their jumping to the birds instead of moving with them. At 82 he was still winning the North American Sporting clays NE regional high gun award, with a 92 bird average. He was a market hunter as a preteen with one Model 12 that he told me that he had shot 10,000 geese with and he had several Model 12’s. He also told me he was banned from the local Trap tourneys when he was a teenager. I have NO doubt about either. A lifetime of great performance stands as evidence of greatness in the shooting games and few have it. Most are just good or really good for a period of time of intense training. He was in his late 60’s when I was with him and taught me much. Mostly that there is a tremendous gap between good and great. It might be only a few clay targets average but that gap is the difference between a long jump of 25 feet and one of 28+ feet. Many men have jumped 25 feet but in 1932 Jesse Owens jumped 26 feet 8 inches and that record was not broken for 25 years and since then only increased to 29’ 4” in 1991 and that has stood since. . I have also learned that in shooting it is simply best to remain silent most of the time. For a while I had folks say to me, “you’re a really good shot” and I would say, “No I am not.” “I know what really good is and I am not it.” Then I figured out that they were doing the math in their head and they preferred to think me really good so that they would feel that they were good. By my saying I was not really good, they knew what I must know of their shooting. I don’t get told that much anymore but if it happens, I just say thanks and smile with genuine thankfulness that I can still shoot OK. My boy was just outside shooting a plastic bottle and some balloons being drifted around by the breeze with his BB gun and I went out and shot the heads off a few dandelions sitting on the porch from 5 to 15 yards. Reason? Just to see him laugh and have him think that Dad was cool. Kind of important when your boy is 11 and you are 54. Was it great shooting? Nope, not even good really as I missed as many as I hit. It was just knowing that I needed to watch the BB, ignore the lousy sights and the gun that shoots way right and then make the BB go where I wanted by “seeing” it, cheek weld and trigger control. I was not there but I think Bell had a gift. The clues I gathered to come to this was his extraordinary eyesight which allowed him to follow bullets in flight regularly when shooting game. His mind could then “see” the bullet path to the target to which he wanted it to go. He had the physical attributes to get him to the place from which he shot and also break the shot as he desired it to be. Both harder in practice than on paper by a good bit. Then simply the shots he made over and over and over on all types of game and wrote about without pride just as part of the story. To me that adds up to a “gift.” I would love to go to Africa and hunt on foot on a long “safari.” It has been a long time dream. I bought a .458 Whitworth in 1982 and a Ruger .338 both with irons and shot nothing but solids, 500’s in the Whitworth and 300’s in the Ruger, and proved what they could do on game when directed into and through the Vital areas. I still have the .458 Whitworth but it only shoots cast bullets on Whitetail now. I don’t really know what gun/guns I might take. Probably the Whitworth and my 35 Whelen, or my Mauser 30-06 or another 30-06 cause my old Mauser would probably scare the PH if he is not real comfortable with Ugly. In any case, the light rifle would do all the work I could get by with and the .458 would be for stopping. If legal and my PH said, “since you keep dry firing that thing every time we see an elephant’s head, why don’t you shoot your elephant with the Whelen, (or the 30-06)” Yes I might just do that bit of romantic nonsense. After all, if I can’t hit that path to the brain so well described by WDM Bell with a 220 grain or 250 grain solid in the light rifle, I doubt that my shooting would improve with the .458 Whitworth and I sure as heck would not have gone to Africa to shoot an elephant in the heart, another bit of romantic nonsense I know. I am sure Africa won’t happen but if I did go, I am sure I would come back even surer that WDM Bell was Great and hopefully that I was maybe just OK for a shot or two. Best regards, dmw "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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Good post, however because I'm dyslexic I took the liberty of separating the paragraphs to make it easier for me and others with that malady to read! I agree that Bell had a gift that can't be tought,you have it or you don't. ..............................................................................................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Bell was an advocate of shot placement over big bore power for killing efficiently. He discovered through empirical evidence[experience] that he was able to drop an elephant with a light calibre if he shot it in the same place as he would have shot it with a large bore. Bell was not naturally gifted with extensive knowledge of the anatomical structure of an elephants skull. Intelligently,through his enquiring mind, he took the initiative to disect skulls, in order to discover,analyse,better educate himself on such. It was after such study-analysis that he became more knowledgable[to know more precisely] where to best place his shots with his small bores. Through such personal initiative-efforts to study the skull [in order to better predict bullet paths to the brain] - he was then able to combine this improved knowledge with his fine marksmanship skills,and become more proficient at killing,.. and famous for "perfecting" the brain shot on elephants. If intelligence,initiative and an enquiring mind,[leading one to conduct technically beneficial anatomical analysis] and then beneficially combining it with ones existing skills, is considered a gift, then indeed Bell was gifted. Bell like most every other champ in his chosen field, had a great aptitude,a great propensity to be skilled,knowledgable and proficient at his profession, however he still had to apply himself and maintain disipline to achieve his goals & ambitions. I gather there are people who could do the same cranial studies as Bell and end up with the same beneficial knowledge & conclusions, but they may not have the same nerve or skill to accurately & consistently place the shot under the same circumstances that Bell did. Bell may have been gifted [or fortunate?] in the fact that he was able to constructively bring together the elements of: his gained knowledge,experience and unique skills,.... to benefit his professional career. | |||
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Thanks Trax for the comments. Yes it might be semantics or just a point of view where the source of the talent or gift comes from. By my using the word “gift” I transparently say what I believe about it. “Gifts” don’t start with us. We just own them for 70 years or so. I am OK if others believe otherwise. I also believe in thinking, training and repetitive practice as you state. I believe so strongly. I just don’t believe that any or all of that can overcome a fellow who does all of that and is truly gifted for the endeavor. The gifted fellow will win the majority of those contests. Or as you say: “but they may not have the same nerve or skill to accurately & consistently place the shot under the same circumstances that Bell did.” I don't think Bell's knowing where the brain was in an elephant is any more than you well describe. I believe that his ability to hit it over and over as I wrote in much longer fashion above, his eyesight, his brain's ability to "see" trajectory, was a gift. Best regards, dmw "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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From 1902 to 1920 (with breaks) I can see why he prefered the 6.5MS & .318WR, marginal though the differences are. 6.5mm 160 grain SD .328 .318 250 SD .328 .318 300 SD .342 (Edited) | |||
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FuryO1, imo-to put it simply, - Bell discovered & used a small cal. bullet that reliably reached & effectively scrambled the brain, and the bullet had a person who did his part to consistently sent it on its correct path- He brained his animals for two reasons; in order to effect a quick humane kill & to reduce any danger too both his African helpers and himself. He had a certain preference for smaller platform/shorter stroke bolt actions over the long stroke magnum actions,..yes? The lower recoil rounds & shorter stroke rifles, I believe, better complimented his culling methods,shooting style & abilities. and appears that they infact, accentuated them. Had he had available to him a SR-Kurz in orig 6.5x54 mauser[properly loaded]...he may have been somewhat pleased! Theres much talk about his exploits with the 7x57 on elephants, but interesting also is; The fact that at the age of 17 he hunted lions for the Uganda Railway using a single-shot.303, which apparently he was able to load and fire at a rather rapid rate. apparently he didn't stop shooting lions with a Martini .303 single shot, because he felt inadequately gunned, but because it didn't pay well,..so Bell decided to instead spent some time panning for gold in the Yukon gold rush, where he also earned a living by shooting game to supply Dawson City with meat. His whole life story-varied careers, is most interesting, from going to sea aged 13, to being involved in the Boer war[Canadian mounted], WW1[pilot] and WW2[Dunkirk evacuation].  | |||
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Read "Heat, Thirst, and Ivory" by Fred Everett. In the 1930s, as a teenager, he took up elephant poaching and killed dozens with a 7mm. He describes almost every kill in some detail. He preferred side brain shots but also used heart shots on elephants and other game. the 7mm worked very well. He also had a .22 which fit the same and had the same trigger as the 7mm. He practiced by shooting flying birds with the .22. Indy Life is short. Hunt hard. | |||
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I promised myself I wasn't going to get into this, but its Saturday and I have nothing better to do... I don't think the small bores are a good choice for a trophy hunter for elephant for a few reasons. First off, while a small bore round, such as the 7 mm or the 6.5 mm with a good sectional density have plenty of penetration, they are light weight and subject to deviation in tissue. I rather strongly suspect that they exhibit more of this than a larger cartridge does. Secondly, the cartridges of the day were pretty much round nosed bullets as well. Lots of more recent folks have done more than a little work on penetration and have found some rather unusual inconsistencies in straight line penetration. How often on this site does someone come up with a bizarre looking track for the bullet? Heck, remember the JFK "magic bullet" was essentially one of these. I have no doubt that Bell was one heck of a shot, studied his quarry, and was one of the most successful elephant hunters ever with this weapon. However, the one in 10-one in 100-one in 1000 hit but not fatally elephant was not an issue for him. There were more elephant available to shoot than he could shoot. I doubt he got too worried about each shot counting- if the bull didn't drop to the round, he shot it again, and if it fell over, and then got up and got away, it was a minor business loss, not a big issue. There were more bulls to shoot. Culling, market shooting, call it what you will, they are more interested in getting X number of animals than they are making sure "that particular one" goes down. Now, they are pros, and expect each one to drop to the shot, even if it doesn't, but they certainly don't get too worked up if a shot goes awry. They are not going to be living around the herd either, so they really don't get too excited about the 1 in 1000 or whatever that it doesn't work on. The reasons for choosing a smallbore are myriad in the numbers game. Ammo expense, availability, weight, and effectiveness are important in about that order. The fact that the gun is lighter and Bell's penchant for running with the herd to shoot them undoubtedly made this an issue as well. You and I on the other hand are trying to shoot that particular animal, and are generally now expected not to leave wounded dangerous animals in the bush. Our PH's are expected to drop a charging animal at any possible angle at the last second, not Bell's well thought out shots on for the most part, unaware, unspooked game. I think that Bell's comment about shooting a bunch of rounds at a buffalo somewhat shows that this is the case- if it was close, he shot until the animal dropped, and if the first one or two shots didn't do the trick, the third or fourth would. To be honest, if Bell was shooting elephant today for the illicit market, it would not surprise me that he would use the ubiquitous AK47 like the current lot of poachers do. Bell was a creature of his times, and to be honest, if he was a trophy hunter today, I really doubt he would be using anything other than a .375 H&H/9.3 class rifle as it would do everything he needed it to do, and given his dislike of recoil, it probably would have a big muzzle brake on it. The man was a pioneer in hunting african game, and unbelievably good at it, but also probably a little lucky, and I do wonder how many people got killed reading his book and figuring they could do what he did... | |||
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Bottom line ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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Possibly, but that was the modi of operation for all those early hunters irrespective of the firearm they used. We should not make comment from the perspective of today. If we wish to, then take the PH and the usual cavalcade of other armed hunters and supporters away from the modern hunter in Africa and see how well he does with is big doubles and big magazines, supposedly more effective than Bell's small bores. I've seen enough video and read enough hunt reports on this and other forums to know that there would be a hell of a lot of game get away wounded from the modern hunter despite the cannons he totes if it were not for all the back up he enjoys today. If we must compare, lets do it apples for apples. | |||
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Ladies and Gentlemen: Fury01 raises a seminal point as to WDM Bell's abilities, by revealing the difference between good and great in a chosen field. I'll give you an example. After three years of running track in high school, I got sick of it, and went out for the baseball team, during my senior year. There were one and one half things that I could do better than the rest of the guys on the team. I could steal a base better than anyone else, because after three years of being a sprinter on the track team, no-one could throw me out, and I mean no-one, once I got the green light to steal. The other 1/2 thing was that I could hit just about any pitch sailed at me. I was a good player. Our pitcher, Rich DeLucia was a great baseball player. He pitched at over 85 mph, sometimes 90 mph. Everyone of his moves was like a cat while hunting, absolutely perfect. He could also hit quite well. He went on to play at the University of Tennessee, and then the major leagues, starting out with the Seattle Mariners, and ending up with the S. F. Giants. When you play baseball with someone, who has that kind of talent, you realize why he got loads of cash to play professional baseball. Could I run the bases better than Rich, sure. Could I play baseball as well as Rich, no way. WDM Bell was probably major league material in his chosen profession, elephant hunting. Who knows what he could do with a 7x57. Just because the other 99% could not do it, doesn't mean, someone in the 1% like Bell couldn't either. Sincerely, Chris Bemis | |||
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Well this discussion has gotten rather mundane. Isn't it about time to trot another "Beat Down Of PHC" to get some blood pressures climbing a few notches? It has been a while since we had one. I mean if we are going to point out the "Flaws"(????) of dead folks, PHC has always been a good sport for a few pages of mud slinging. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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