Hey Guys,

Just completed a succesful hunt with hunters from Austria and as per norm i contacted them once they got back to find out if they arrived home safe and sound. They replied great hunt just the hassles they had at OR Tambo airport left a bitter taste in their mouth. The porters pushing for tips (excuse the pun!) Saying that 10 euros is'nt enough for 10 minutes work that they are paid to do anyway! And SAPS members expecting money, or a "xmas present" as they put it.

I am really getting sick of this scenario where clients are expected to bribe their way, or pay out unnecasary money at airports. Its not a lot of money at the end of the day, but just the morals that the clients are being taken advantage of is disgusting. About 60% of our hunting clients comment and complain about paying out extra cash at the OR Tambo airport.

Some will say T.I.A This Is Africa and just go with the flow, but whay do you guys feel about it? Is meet and greet the only way to do it?

Murray

Those are not bribes ... a bribe is to get out of shit in a hurry without excessive paperwork - or to short-cut the rules. It is just your hunters being gullible and being taken for a ride. You don't have to give money to anyone that simply asks for it!! There are specific guidelines about the amount of money that porters are supposed to be paid at the airport. Also, you can carry your own bags and tell them to get lost (or to fuck off as I would put it) as they are a nuisance. Meet & greet is definately the professional way to go. I do that and none of my hunters complain about this situation.

Please do not take any crap such as this from any of these people. As long as you stay within the rules tell them to "have a nice day" and move on ...

Murray,

I have to agree with Johan. When I went through O.R. Tembo this year to hunt with Johan nobody asked me for anything. Actually I've been through there several times and I do tip as appropriate but I've never been asked for money. If your an arriving hunter who has arranged for a service to handle your gun permits the process is so easy at O.R.Tembo now that a porter is really not necessary. I arrived at O.R.Tembo this year with two safari virgins in tow and we literally were about 15 minutes from jetway to parking garage. THE BIG DEAL ABOUT TRAVELING THROUGH O.R. TEMBO IS IN THE PAST.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
THE BIG DEAL ABOUT TRAVELING THROUGH O.R. TEMBO IS IN THE PAST.

Mark

Typing in bold doesn't help those, like me, that view traveling via O.R. Tembo as something that should be avoided. When I add the perceived need for bribes (either direct, or indirect to a company to help with guns) and the documented theft, I am left with a dread of traveling via Tembo.

I was there in June and we found the 1$ to 2$ US tips to get everything through an airport we ha no knowlege of to be a great help. You just have to know when to say no to to the beggars who try to tag along with the porters that actualy did the work. Pay attention, and 2$ to 6$ US will get you and your guns through everything much eaiser if you don't know the airport well.

It is sad to hear that this is happening again. When I came back in 2003 there was a SAA rep in Atlanta that was speaking to the returning hunters as they picked up their rifles. Seem that they were cracking down on the "bribe beggars". The Rep seemed pretty serious which was nice as I had been asked for a "gift" in each of my three previous trips.

The truth is, they could run a sting from time to time to keep the porters honest.

As far as it being a "bribe" or a "tip", for you professionals it is pretty easy to tell the porter to F.O. But put yourself in the place of the client hunter. What do you expect him to do when some shady porter tells him, "I will be the one putting your rifle on the plane. Do you have a gift for me?" And keep in mind this is statement is made in a manner that implies that your rifle has a much better chance of making it onto the plane if the porter is happy with the "gift".

In this day of digital cameras every hunter should take a photo of the porter with the rifle case and ask the porter for the name of his supervisor, explaining that "I would like to mail the photo to you as a gift."

Use Afton House or another reputable meet and greet and you will fly through without a hitch every time.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
Use Afton House or another reputable meet and greet and you will fly through without a hitch every time.

This is nothing more than an "indirect" bribe.

quote:

Originally posted by dla69:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
Use Afton House or another reputable meet and greet and you will fly through without a hitch every time.

This is nothing more than an "indirect" bribe.

What an idiot

quote:

Originally posted by tradewinds:

What an idiot

Why do you say that? Maybe my words are poorly chosen; however, I believe that people are spending money for these services in order to accomplish the same objectives as the "tips" - namely to have people to do jobs for which no additional payment should be required.

I haven't been through there since 2005. Every black face wearing a uniform of some sort had his hand out. The cops wanted a tip to clear the guns out.

I flew contract for SAA when it was one of the better airlines aroundand Joburg was a civilized airport. No more. Since black empowerment, the blacks are empowered to hustle the pants off any tourist gullible enough to go along with their demands and extortion. They see a white face, they immediately think "money!" Screw Joburg. I'll get to Africa some other way.

quote:

Typing in bold doesn't help those, like me, that view traveling via O.R. Tembo as something that should be avoided. When I add the perceived need for bribes (either direct, or indirect to a company to help with guns) and the documented theft, I am left with a dread of traveling via Tembo.

dla69,

You need that RSA gun permit if you are entering RSA with your guns. If you choose to have someone assist with that and your baggage it's not a bribe. Saying it's a bribe is like saying "I'm not bribing/hiring a cab to take my luggage to a hotel because I can drag it myself".

Actually the point I was making is that with the finishing of the new terminal the whole arrival and departure process is much simplified and streamlined at O.R. Tembo. I found it less intimidating than many other international airports including some in the US.

Mark

Agree to some degree.

When flying BA the porter who was to take my rifle from SAPS to the plane said, with my rifle case in his possession- Sir, I am the one who will make sure your rifle gets on the plane, do you have some money for a cool drink?

I, being me, spun around and went back out to BA check in, found the head lady in charge (HLIC- see urban dictionary for complete definition) and with the porter standing there, recounted the request.

Later, a BA rep paged me at the gate and was very profusely apologizing and saying it won't happen again, etc. My concern was not really the small tip, but getting my dang rifle on the plane certain.

On the other hand in some countries I visited tips can help e.g. Sheremetrovo airport, lines about 1 hour long for passport control, grab a guy in uniform, flash the passport with a $50 inside and you are thru in 5 minutes.

Cuts both ways, I guess.

As for Afton house and services it is true, I suppose if the airport people did their job efficiently or were staffed appropriately, they would not be necessary, but we do not live in a perfect world. Compare entry into RSA with firearms to Namibia or NZ. The latter are 5 minute propositions, while RSA can be an hour or more, though I recognize the people on our side there are really trying to improve the service.

Paying for Afton House services or any similar service is not an indirect bribe. You get value and convenience for the service, and you contract for it ahead of time. Quite different from a requested handout from someone already being paid by the airport or the government to do their job.

Have now made 9 trips to Africa - and I have evolved to where I gladly and consistently use a service like this.

quote:

Originally posted by dla69:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
Use Afton House or another reputable meet and greet and you will fly through without a hitch every time.

This is nothing more than an "indirect" bribe.

There is a world of difference between paying for a service that will expedite your passage through, and some corrupt official demanding a bribe.

In September 2005 we had a bad experience at Tambo.We were travleing with KB1 (here on AR) and landed at Tambo. We were met by a firearm service representative as we were in-transit, she made sure our rifles were transferred to the plane to Bulawayo.

On the return, we were staying the night at Afton's Guesthouse. We had arranged for pre-approved import forms. After entering the office and opening the gun cases, there was a typo on the pre-approved form. The police had entered a "5" instead of an "S" as the first letter on the serial number of the Remington 870 shotgun. All other numbers matched. The Officer said he could seize this firearm for illegally entering the country. This was the first time we saw the pre-approved
forms.The Police Officer said this looked like a "$10 mistake". Later my husband said he did not know if this was a set-up to charge him with attempted bribery, etc. so he said nothing. The firearm import company representative spoke to the Police Officer in another area and we were on our way with a "pen and ink" change reflecting the correct serial number.

We also had the "wrong number" ruoutine" pulled on us. When checking in on the domestic side, they said there was a wrong number for one of the rifles and that one of the "officers" would accompany us back to get this corrected, which he did do. When we got there the guy behind the counter got a pained look on his face, corrected the form (pen and ink change) and we returned with the corrected form. At this time he started wiping his brow and saying how hard he workeed dragging the heavy case across OR Tambo and waving his hand around. He "healed up" when he had some greenbacks in his hand. The rifle numbers were again compared to the form and all was well. Imediately after locking the case another "officer" said that he would be the one putting the case on the plane and "needed money". No hints, skirting the issue or anything, just came out and said it. What else are you going to do? Didn't want to Pi** him off and not get our rifles, so there goes a few more bucks.
Until SCI or someone steps up and demands that the RSA Government start some "sting operations" to crack down on this it won't stop, unless we all just start renting rifles after we get there, but I like shooting my own.

quote:

Originally posted by Tracker49:
another "officer" said that he would be the one putting the case on the plane and "needed money". No hints, skirting the issue or anything, just came out and said it. What else are you going to do? Didn't want to Pi** him off and not get our rifles, so there goes a few more bucks.

I am going to quote myself:

quote:

In this day of digital cameras every hunter should take a photo of the porter with the rifle case and ask the porter for the name of his supervisor, explaining that "I would like to mail the photo to you as a gift."

Also we need to make some calls and emails to SAA. They can nip this thing in the bud, we just need to light a fire under them.

quote:

What do you guys feel about it? Is meet and greet the only way to do it?

Murray

Prep them to out-think the situation. "Tipping" is anticipated but if you are pre-prepared with just ten-rand notes or five dollar/euro notes what can the guy say? Have in hand the amount you plan to "tip" and tell him that is what you've got. Win-win.

Americans are used to showing they're offended as a way of making people go away/leave them alone. We are not taught much about avoiding eye contact, anticipating, crossing the street, etc. I've understood Europeans are better at saying nothing or simply ignoring someone as a means to not being bothered. Americans want to be liked and understood instead of just getting it done.

2 cents

On my trip in '08 I was asked for "tips" from the guys taking my guns to SAPS. I travel quite a bit in third world countries so didn't really think much of it. Think I gave the guy 5 bucks or something. Anyway, I got to the SAPS office only to find my guns were nowhere to be found (maybe $10 would have been better?). An hour later my PH showed up and of course he gave them hell but to no avail. I was pretty pissed....(don't necessarily mind the tip but you'd damn well better perform!!)

After probably another hour we were finally on our way and all was good. Told my story to the PH's boss, the outfitter, who informed me that he was well connected w/PHASA and that kind of thing should never happen! Said he'd get with his colleagues at PHASA and that they had the "juice" to make this kind of crap stop!!

Apparently two weeks wasn't enough time for them to flex their muscles because the same thing happened on departure, only this time I refused. The guy (dirtbag) flat told me that my guns may not make the flight and guess what..?
It took about a week but they finally showed up, unharmed and no worse for wear.

Moral: pay on the end that matters!

The corruption in countries like this is so pervasive that it is absolutely hopeless. It is the fundamental reason they suffer.

this kind of crap is one of the main reasons i quit traveling with guns abroad.

I agree with Bahati... If anyone approaches you for a tip - whether that be a request to by them a cold drink or for cash tell them to get lost. These guys are not doing you a favor by getting your guns on the plane or into the country - it's their job.

Passengers who stick a note into the hands of the security officers and policemen are unfortunately the ones who created this problem. One passenger does this and they expect it from all the others too.

PLease guys! Stop giving every second Tom, Dick and Harry money at the airport!!! You may be helping yourself on the short term but you're making things more and more difficult for the others that follow. If you want to use a porter (which really is not necessary most of the time) feel free to tip them but let the policeman, security guards etc. do their jobs and get paid by their employers.

Jason, unfortunately writing to SAA will have little if any effect. When I recently returned from the US and collected my baggage I discovered the locks on both my bags had been broken off. Not even knowing what was missing from my luggage as I could not open the damaged zippers, I reported this at the Baggage Claim counter... Response was that I should take my luggage to an authorised repair centre who will repair it free of charge. When I asked the guy: "What if something had been stolen from my luggage?" he said I had 7 days within which I could submit a claim for stolen luggage to SAA. I said: "But if something was stolen then it is still somewhere behind the baggage claim area! Why not check the baggage and contents NOW for fingerprints and catch the bastard(s)?" "Sorry sir, this is not procedure..." was his reply. As it turned out several items (combined value over $1,500) had been stolen from my luggage and I submitted a claim... Got a letter back from SAA last week stating that they took "great pleasure" in informing me that I would be reimbursed at $20 per kg at an estimated weight of 7kg's for the stolen items. $140 reimbursement for goods valued at more than $1500!!! I even have receipts for all the stolen items!

I phoned SAA and was told that they were aware of the pilferage problem and was working at getting a solution for it... I can resubmit my claim for review but chances are small that I'll get anything more back...

Pilferage at OR Tambo airport has been a problem since Black Empowerment was introduced and it's just been getting worse... This matter has been publisized extensively in the press and on TV but SAA and ACSA has effectively done nothing about it. Unfortunately no one is prepared to take ownership of the problem and everyone keeps on blaming someone else.

I understand Chis' point.

Unfortunately, I want my rifle to show up when I do. Giving them $20 is pretty small change compared to what I paid to hunt/fly/etc.

While I support the outfitters in trying to get this stopped, and would rather not "tip every Tom, Dick and Harry" I am not going to risk my trip and guns arriving by not doing it.

For Crissakes, we have to tip every Tom, Dick, and Harry at home, so why not elsewhere?

What do you call paying a lobbyist, but bribing? and those clowns won't do what they were paid for even then?

I have had no problems either in Dar or Arusha. Worldwide, curbside baggage handlers make their living off tips. In several European cities, I have had skycaps turn down tips. Africa, Asia and Latin America, however, are much different. Five bucks to the skycap in Miami is expected. I have no problems with tips, but in place like Nairobi and Joburg, extortion is what they have in mind.

I once had a Kenyan immigration guy just come out and ask me for my new Parker ball point. I told him I was with the UN and if he insisted, I would ensure that he personally heard about it. Pissed him off, but he issued my visa with a scowl. Screw him.

That's one reason I really like Tanzania. They are efficient at passport control and I always carry a wad of ones and fives for tips where tips are required. But Joburg is out of control, or was, the last time I went through there. It used to be a really great airport in the past, just as SAA used to have qualified mechanics maintaining their airplanes. Too bad.

Johannesburg OR Tambo airport has changed quite during the last few years and the functionality is realy good the way it is now. It is a dramatic improvement to the way it used to be. I am referring to the facilities which is probably the best in the whole of Africa now.

In terms of (most of) the people working and operating there, like most public facilities in South Africa, incompetence rules - from the top to the very bottom! The solution is to come prepared as this is just another part of your larger safari experience. Know what things cost and what your rights are and what the rules are. It is your outfitter's job to inform you of this. If fact, I believe the outfiter should arrange all of this for you. It just makes for a slick and enjoyable experience. By the way ... If you think Jo'burg is bad, go to Cairo - or anywhere in Egypt for that matter - and think again! Johannesburg airport is not bad, just a little annoying is you let it get to you.

Some people, motivated by uncertaintly and fear of the unknown get some comfort and the illusion of security by handing out dollar bills to anyone that so much as hints at it. It is like feeding baboons in the game reserve - they eventually cannot feed themselves and become an outright nuisance, and have to be shot. (The baboons that is!) Do not be anxious and tense and handle these airport pests calmly and waste THEIR time. They very soon see that they will have no luck and will move on to the next unsuspecting tourist to try and score there. If you are pressed for time, simple wave a smile and say "next time ..."

Like Chris says, do not give money to anyone unless it is earned and then stick to the prescribed amounts. Besides, if you need someone to move your stuff around ... you probably have brought too much gear in the first place!

And Mark is absolutely correct - travelling through Jo'burg is now a non-event, or at least it should be.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I understand Chris'point.

Unfortunately, I want my rifle to show up when I do. Giving them $20 is pretty small change compared to what I paid to hunt/fly/etc.

And I understand yours crb...but it would be interesting to know how many (if any) hunters have had problems with rifles not showing up after they refused to give these guys any money. Anyone out there that can comment?

quote:

Originally posted by Bahati:
Johannesburg OR Tambo airport has changed quite during the last few years and the functionality is realy good the way it is now. It is a dramatic improvement to the way it used to be. I am referring to the facilities which is probably the best in the whole of Africa now.

Johan, you are right... the facilities have improved immensely... Just a pity that competency levels are not always what they could be...

Yes, if your Outfitter provides you with the correct information beforehand and you come prepared a lot of this BS this can be avoided... one of the reasons why I prefer to pick my clients up myself as opposed to using transfer companies for this job...

You guys correct, OR Tambo airport has improved quite a lot, facility wise as well as far as getting through customs etc. Competency of staff still lacking a ton though. Yes as an outfitter you do organise the paper work for your incoming client and assist and advise as much as you can BUT i can understand that a client who has been awaitng in great anticipation a perfect safari is not prepared to let $20 hamper that, so they pay every Tom, Dick and Harry, I would prob do the same if i went hunting in Argentina or so. The first time african hunters are the hunters i feel for as it is the unknown for them, unless accompanied by the booking agent or experienced hunters of coarse.

So I will recomment , Guys please dont tip people whoare not deserving of the reward and especially dont pay a " gift" to any Official dealing with your weapon. It is difficult i know. Asking the persons name and his superiors name and contact detials does make them think twice about fooling around with you. Please make sure that all your paperwork is 100% in order so that they dont have any ammunition to hold you to ransom. Airlines dont care about us hunters, so its up to us to try get things the way they should be!

I have said it a couple of times here in the past about this topic.

We have never had a problem with Bribes and/or tips.....

Maybe it is because we arrange everything ourselves and meet our clients at the airport, for free, and clear their firearms. On the return journey the same story. We make sure they are checked in and Bon Voyage.

Only two problems this year.Client did not have his paperwork ready from the States as we told him (which we got fixed WITHOUT a bribe) and BA with their BS rates for travelling with firearms that went up from the day the client left the UK until the day he went back....not nice.

SAPS, no problem, we are there and handle it
Porters and taxi drivers, no problem, we are there and handle it.

I think it is silly to have someone pay you $400.00 per day for 7-10 days, and then let a "sub-contractor" do a very straight forward, easy job for another $200.00 (another warthog maybe?) This is for guys hunting in SA, for all the others passing through, Ladies and Gents, they are people, just say NO.

As I recall it there are yellow signposts indicating the tip to be given to a porter as being R20.00......

Last July I recall seeing a sign in the SAPS office stating "Tips not Required" Help stamp out Corruption. I picked up my Checked bag with the help of a free luggage cart, then proceeded to arrivals where I was greeted by Infinto Safari Staff and on to the SAPS office with my paperwork, signed it in front of the SAPS officer, and then I was on my way. I was amazed at how fast things went.

Not every country has a tipping culture. Unfortunately travellers from American are often seen as 'compulsive' tippers.

I have never been asked for money or had to pay for services in OT. I don't wear 'safari clothes' on arrval. I have never paid for a meet and great service as the forms and the procedures are quite simple.

I smile quietly and say thank you when appropriate. I don't demand anything and am prepared to wait quietly. I realise I have very few 'rights' in a foreign country.

It works wonders and not just in OT.

when i went in and out of ORT 2 months ago, i found it to be one of the easiest airports i have ever transited. then again, i no longer travel with firearms and i pack light enough that i have a small carry-on and 1 light duffel bag. there are easy ways and there are hard ways to do everything. like Johan posted earlier, if the locals become a pest, i tell them to f--k off.

As a first timer to SA in 2010 or 2011, should I use meet and greet or should I try to get through on my own if the PH doesn,t meet me there? By the way, about how much does meet and greet typically cost? It seems that Afton house is the one that's used a lot.
Thanks,

Mike

Mike,

Let Gracy Travel make your travel arrangements and the meet/greet is included in the service. The RSA gun permit is $100 through Gracy and includes the postage to send the SAPS application to RSA. You give Gracy your personal info, gun info and they even fill out the SAPS forms for you. It couldn't be more seamless. Combine the above with the new and improved terminal at O.R. Tembo and it really is a breeze to arrive JNB.

Mark

Thanks Mark,
I,ll contact Gracy and go from there. Appreciate your response.

Mike

Like Mark said. Gracy is just too easy.

These shifty bastards at Jo'burg Airport are just getting into gear. With this world cup soccer drivel coming next year, the porters and baggage handlers will be able to retire quite handsomely.

The bribes/tips are small change compared to the value of the things that get stolen out of your bags. I'd have gladly paid someone a few bucks to make sure that everything in my bag made it through. After 3 weeks in one pair of boots I was really glad to get home and put something else on my feet. I hope the jerk who stole my new nikes enjoyed them, I surely didn't.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
Use Afton House or another reputable meet and greet and you will fly through without a hitch every time.


This is nothing more than an "indirect" bribe.

I have very warm feelings for the folks at Afton house. My bag wasnt transfered to Windhoek, and nobody could "find" aka take responsability to get it to me. I was visiting a friend, not even with a known outfitter or anything. I called them, knowing of them through here, and they found my bag, got it on the plane and refused my offer of payment. I sent them a gift from home. I certainly wouldnt call that indirect bribery!

I'm planning on circumventing most of their criminal acts by purchasing and using hard sided luggage without zippers. Samsonite has just the ticket, and I'll be picking it up this Friday. Stealing out of soft sided zippered bags has become an art and the normal routine over there and it will become even more so in the coming months.

I was just over there recently and no problems at all. No thefts or anything. I was impressed by all the renovations they have done, getting thru passport control was a breeze. In the past it usually took over an hour, this time it was only about 10 minutes. Got my baggage and after walking thru customs, no stops and no one asked for anything, I meet my PH and headed straight for the SAPS office. This time no orange jump suits were trying to take my cart or anything.

When leaving I did get a porter then to make sure I went the right direction and tipped him 5 bucks and he was thankful. Flew out on Delta and when I was checking in there was no one in the business line and they saw my rifle case and pulled over to the business check-in counter even though I was flying coach. The guy that carried my rifle case to get checked did not ask for anything nor did I offer anything. After he made sure I knew where I needed to go next. Looks like some things are improving over there.