I've always wondered how the guys who bug me for a tip because they claim to be loading the guns on the plane know which one is mine?

No different at Dar. Let's see...$10 to CPL Barney Fife who counted my ammo, $5 to his buddy, $5 to his Sgt., $10.00 to the customs officer who never looked at my rifles but wanted to read his magazine, $20 to plastic wrap my two bags together cause "Ricardo" wanted $200 to allow me to take my carry-on and very small bag on board that I had flown over with (he was KLM agent and received $50). Just the cost of doing business. I expected it and, if you complained, I'd still be searching for my bags. I just budget for these shits.


Dutch

Afton house is certainly not a part of the problem, they are a pleasant solution to the problem. This is especially true if you need a secure place to relax and begin to adjust to the time change and cultural leap you just accomplished.

I've been thru jnb quite a lot and am aware that many just zip right thru the process. For each of these there is another whose paperwork has been purposely done incorrectly by saps just to shake you down. When this happens Air 2000 or Afton House are there to save the day.(and boost your confidence)

TRAVEL LIGHT! If it is your first trip consult your agent, outfitter, or the AR forum. If a subsequent trip, don't take anything you didn't use on a similar previous safari.

quote:

Originally posted by Adrian Parham:
I've been thru jnb quite a lot and am aware that many just zip right thru the process. For each of these there is another whose paperwork has been purposely done incorrectly by saps just to shake you down.

Adrian

I am not defending the SAPS, as they have their own issues and problems. You fill out and present your own paperwork and if the permit they generate from that is then incorrect, you cannot accept it as you will have an illegal firearm in the country if you do. How can there be a "shake-down" - unless one wants to bend the rules?

It is the exception to land up with a problem at that part of the process and we never have any problems with the SAPS at OR Tambo. The most common issue is with guys not bringing the requested supporting paperwork, such as the 4457 form. Now if someone slipped the SAPS guy someting to look that over and it works, who's the baddy here?

The slick solution is to use one of the pre-clearing services, as that even eliminates the waiting for the permits to me typed/written out. A bargain at the price.

Inform yourself, liase with your outfitter on these matters, follow the rules, use the services offered and slide through the very well organized OR Tambo airport as part of your safari. I'll say it again; It is a non-event now ...

Gents,

Unfortunately you have brought this "tipping" situation on yourselves, by handing out USD in an effort to avoid problems and buy "special" treatment. Just like giving your dog food from the table... do it twice and he will be there begging every meal.

This may be a vacuous response, but haven't any of you ever been to Mexico? For sure, you have never been to the Virgin Islands: try to under tip a porter at our airport and you will probably be engaged in the loudest argument you have ever seen. Pay the bastards and be done with it. why let a few usd upset your trip?

NAPHA will report you to your government if you don't pay its bribe....think about that cost.

Russ Gould, have you been there? I'm not sure who you are but your comment is crap.

BULIWYF,

here you go again, trying to re-direct this thread to an ANTI-Namibia issue...seriously, Namibia has the greatest import gun system, and I have never been asked for a dime there! I gave the officer a Bic Pen, because his wasn't writing well..and he showed great thanks.

You seriously need to get a life and forget about napha, didn't you already claim, "I WILL NEVER GO HUNT NAMIBIA" so you won't have anything to worry about!

YOUR LOSS!

quote:

Russ Gould, have you been there? I'm not sure who you are but your comment is crap.

Actually, Sir, I was born there and lived there half my life, and I was there three times this season.

quote:

Originally posted by ChrisTroskie:


And I understand yours crb...but it would be interesting to know how many (if any) hunters have had problems with rifles not showing up after they refused to give these guys any money. Anyone out there that can comment?

I blew off one of the OR Tambo security guys on the way out this year. He wanted quite a bit to "take my rifles to the office". I told him to beat it and he finally did. There was no one in the office when I got there so I waited. When no one showed, I found another OR Tambo security guy and he processed my paperwork. I wrote his name and ID card number down and told him "This is my receipt for my rifles". He didn't ask any questions. Ten minutes before we boarded, he came to the gate and said the guns were one the plane and didn't ask for any money. I thanked him and he left. Rifles arrived no problem.

Inbound, I was met by Aubrey (.458Aubs) from Air Charters & Tourism. Aubrey had pre cleared my SAPS forms as well. We were literally the last hunters in the crowded SAPS office and the first out. He had a vehicle waiting and we were on our way within a few minutes of getting off the plane.
For most of us, vacations times are fixed. Time and effort getting the safari started cannot be regained. It is simply lost. After a couple days worth of flying, having a man to handle paperwork, luggage, and ground travel is well worth it in my opinion.
Chet

quote:

For most of us, vacations times are fixed. Time and effort getting the safari started cannot be regained. It is simply lost. After a couple days worth of flying, having a man to handle paperwork, luggage, and ground travel is well worth it in my opinion.
Chet

Chet,

You are a genius. If only some others saw the situation at O.R. Tembo with your clarity they would have a much more pleasant start to their safari.

Mark

I am not sure if third world considers a difference between bribe/tip/buksheesh it is all the same to them.

People from overseas sometimes get amazed at the amount of tip we leave to our restaurant waiters in USA.

Ever taken a cab in NYC and not left a tip ?

quote:

Originally posted by collector:
I am not sure if third world considers a difference between bribe/tip/buksheesh it is all the same to them.

People from overseas sometimes get amazed at the amount of tip we leave to our restaurant waiters in USA.

Ever taken a cab in NYC and not left a tip ?

Customary gratuity in the personal service industries do have cultural differences.

Law enforcement and security in public places is not a personal service. It is a public service over which they have a natural monopoly.

Paying someone under the pretense of preventing a bad thing from happening is simply extortion by a public official. There is no "gratuity" involved.

"Third world" and "first world" folks are equally aware of this. It is lack of personal morality and public consequences, not cultural mores, that allow this to go on.

Chet

ChetNC

South Africans still need to cleanup the mess at Joberg airport....no argument there. Maybe we should list out the characters that one runs into OR Tambo airport.

1) Porters (Tips - Yes - Amount determined per bag)

2) Uniformed people who take your weapons to SAP office. These could be local police or airport employees (Tips/Bribe - Absolutely Yes)

3) PHASA Representative or any other Facilitator (Afton House, Air2000, etc) who has already been paid to clear your paperwork with SAPS. I still tip them after they clear the guns with SAPS. (Tips - Yes)

4) SAP...If they are asking for a Tip/Bribe I am giving. Not my country, I do not have the time, or the patience.

But #4 is the most troubling part when these guys ask for tips.


On the way back same process is repeated. So all in all one should account for these tips on the way in and way out of OR Tambo.

In the big scheme of things it is a small cash amount. Least resistant, especially when you are travelling with your firearms. You get in and out without lost time or firearms.

Is it the right thing to do ? That is a slippery slope. Because it all depends on different people's personal point of view.

If one is to assume that all uniform wearing public service people all over the world are required to uphold to a high moral standard then I am all for it. Not sure I will enforce my morals onto these guys when I am traveling with MY firearms in THEIR country.

I made my first trip to South Africa in 2000. There were 4 of us and although none of us know anything about the "meet and greet" services, we breezed through SAPS in about a half hour.

I made my second trip (by myself) in 2005 and used a meet and greet. They got me through SAPS in a few minutes, while some other hunters there (without a meet and greet) had been waiting there for over 2 hours.

My last trip was in 2007. I flew from Dulles to Tembo and then another flight to Kimberley. I had decided to overnight at Afton and fly to Kimberley the next day rather than try to rush a connecting flight the same day.

I also had bought Afton's meet and greet service, and their man Bruce, was there to meet me after I cleared customs. Bruce had my firearms paperwork but one number on my permit did not match the serial number on my rifle. Bruce had no trouble straightening it out, and I was quickly on my way.

I spent an enjoyable evening at Afton House, and the next morning I was already awake when I got my 5:45 wake up call for my 8:15 flight to Kimberley. I miss read my flight time and didn't take Afton's first van to the airport.

The van came back and rushed me to the airport, getting me there at 7:40 for my 8:15 flight. The van driver called Bruce as we drove, and he met me at the door. Bruce got me ahead of the check-in lines and got a porter to hand carry my rifle to the plane.

My mistake, but Bruce of Afton's Meet and Greet service got me through it.

The rest of my flights and hunt went well, but I did encounter a little shakedown when I checked my rifle in at Tembo for my return flight home.

After I checked my luggage, I carried my rifle case to the firearms office. There were 3 uniformed (police?) men in the office. I put my rifle case on the counter and presented my paperwork. Everything was fine and I locked my case and put it on the stack of cases ready to be taken to the plane.

As I turned to leave, the larger "officer" who had checked my paperwork asked "Aren't you going to give anything to my helpers?"

quote:

Law enforcement and security in public places is not a personal service. It is a public service over which they have a natural monopoly.

So here I am, in a foreign country 20 some hours of flight time from home. It's a shakedown, wrong, and possibly illegal, but a couple of bucks to this guy's "helpers" is cheap insurance that my rifle comes home with me.

Buff,
Dude, I'm totally with you, 20-40 in tips to get my stuff back without worry about vengence from some piece of sh*t cop is no skin off my back. Thats included in my african travel budget, trying to make that system honest is worthless waste of time.

All the people who say "oh you shouldn't do that, cause it promotes others getting screwed with" I say to them, I don't care. I learned a long time ago how to play the game, and rules are great, but obviously not enforcable here. SO you got to watch out for you and your group. Which means my pockets have got tips in them.

Buffybr and Oryxhunter1983 could not agree with your thought process more.

South Afircans need to keep their house clean so the "officers" should not be asking for tips in first place.

Asking visiting hunters not to give money to the "officers" is not the solution.

Americans and Europeans pour in a couple of hundred millions in South Africa's economy directly and indirectly each year. I am thankful that there is a process in place in RSA to get in and out with firearms. This process is a lot better than many other African countries. It just needs to be streamlined so the begging/blackmailing would stop.

Not all countries have the resources to keep watchdogs (like Internal Affairs). And it would take an organization like that to stop the uniformed people from harassing visiting hunters in RSA.

Having said that, RSA is really a lot of fun and hence we all keep going back. Everyone should be prepared and assign a bit of extra cash in their "OR Tambo Fund" upon arrival and departure and they will get they firearms processed promptly.

Also the hunt reports should include a line item for Tips/Blackmail for the trip when people post their experiences and pics

I have to agree with collector on this 4) SAP...If they are asking for a Tip/Bribe I am giving. Not my country, I do not have the time, or the patience.

When the police in saps didnt think my serial numbers matched the gun it was easier to give the guy 5 bucks and go on my way. They claimed the 5's were written on the forms as S's. I didn't feeling like arguing and wanted to get to the terminal. The guns did get on the plane and there were no other problems.

Thanks,

Greg