The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Roualeyn Gordon Cummin Shooting Springbok at 600-800 YardsGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I am reading his book A HUNTERS LIFEXAMING LIONS. He says he was trying to shoot springbok at between 600-800 yards. That is with open sights in 1857! | ||
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Considering the highly contested long range shooting matches of the time, l would consider that having followed the herd for half a day and not come to bare at closer ranges then laying back and letting one fly might be the next/only option. | |||
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I'm going to Namibia in April and I was thinking about bringing my 6.5x284 for some long range shooting until I read that 7mm is the minimum caliber for medium game. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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so take your 284 X 284 the 7mm ain't no short range wonder it has BC's too. | |||
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I think he mentioned that he had expended quite a bit of ammo, without any success. I am not passing judgement, but trying to shoot a springbok, with open sights, at that distance one is really stretching it. I shot a wounded hartebeest at around 500 yards this year. But I was using an 8X scope with a modern 375/404 rifle. And the hartebeest is a lot bigger than a springbok. I have shot springbok at over 400 yards, but, again, I was using a 14X scope and a modern 30/404 rifle, 180 grain bullet at close to 3500 FPS. One of things written about Gordon was that he exaggerates things a bit. I have no idea if he is in this instance, but Indount it as he seems to admit he never hit anything. I just thought it was quite interesting to read this. | |||
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When I was at school we were shooting at Bisley at 1,000 yards open sights with the .303 Enfield. I must admit I could not hit much at the range. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Fairgame, While in the western USA, why not stop off at the NRA Whittington Center and take a shot at the metal bison target up on the mountain side above the 500 yard rifle range. I understand it rings when hit by a bullet. NRA Life Benefactor Member, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center,Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/ | |||
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Shots at 600 yards hunting.... and 800 yards Until someone produces a laser range finder and suddenly the distance shrinks by half  | |||
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If the gentleman in question needed meat in camp, could not get close, and had an ample supply of lead and gunpowder, then it would not be unusual to take shots at that distance. Gordon-Cumming often traveled with a very large party, and meat had to be procured frequently. | |||
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With herds of 5 million shooting into the herd you eventually would hit s9meth8ng. | |||
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My thoughts also. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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I've shot "AT" a whole lotta prairie dogs way the hell out there. Beyond 600 is a damned long shot. Things get technical that far with a .223 and 55gr I used, nearly always prone. Hell I can't even get down to prone now! Back in the '80-90's when I was shooting lots of 'em. 400yds was a gimme distance. The challenge got even more so quite a bit further. Know I missed a bunch of times trying to stretch it. No range finder those days so no idea just how far I did hit some. Keep thinking one of these days I'll find someone with a good long finder and go back to one place I know well enough I shot from and hit most shots "under the fenceline". "way the hell out there". I'd like to know. As we walked out to check the dead one's and on the way back. Other than knowing Charlies ride was a Jeep, we were too far to tell what it was looking face on at it. It was funny on the way back, he kept stopping to look back at the fenceline, then at his Jeep and saying: "damn it George, I don't believe those shots I watched you make dead p/dogs are proof enough you did though". Believe I was using either 14x or 18x those days, replaced it with a 6.5-20x since. I've never tried the 1000yd stuff at Whittington, went there once to look the place over on an off day. Those big targets looked mighty small from the firing point. George "Gun Control is NOT about Guns' "It's about Control!!" Join the NRA today!" LM: NRA, DAV, George L. Dwight | |||
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This all pales in comparison to what Lake?? - I think was his name - wrote about. In one story he wrote he said he was shooting baboons, because there was a price on their heads. I am not exactly sure of the details, but it went like this; “I saw a big male baboon sitting on top of a tree 900 yards away. I fired at him and killed him. When I went to get him, I found my bullet hit him 7 inches lower than I aimed” I think he was using an open sighted 303. Best part was he mentioned that writers should not lie  | |||
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It can be done and has been done. But only when the shooter cares nothing about missing, or worse, wounding. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Nowadays I sight my rifles at 50 yards mate. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Having breakfasted, we started on horseback to "jag" springbok and wildebeest, ordering the wagons to proceed to a vley about four miles to the west. We galloped about the plains, loading and firing for about six hours. The game was very wild. I wounded three springboks and one wildebeest, but lost them all. Campbell shot two springboks. The first was entirely eaten by the vultures (notwithstanding the bushes with which we had covered him), and skinned as neatly as if done by the hand of man. The second had its leg broken by the ball, and was making off, when a jackal suddenly appeared on the bare plain, and, giving him chase, after a good course ran into him.* | |||
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Oh I don't know, I reckon it could be done. I have a mate that SWEARS to me he was shooting Kangaroo's at 1000 meters with a .223   ------------------------------ A mate of mine has just told me he's shagging his girlfriend and her twin. I said "How can you tell them apart?" He said "Her brother's got a moustache!" | |||
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Did Elmer Keith not shoot elk or deer at 500 yards with a pistol? "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Well, the part that makes this silly is that given the year and the available cartridges you are talking somewhere around 13 ft difference in drop between 600 yards and 800 yards at a minimum and probably more like a 15 ft difference. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I think this might be a good example of what most people's ability to judge distance actually is. I have a friend that moved to a very rural part of Texas. Along with his new house and barn he built a measured 1,000 yard range on his property. The country in a lot of that area is quite open and many locals told my friend of their great exploits shooting deer, pigs and coyotes at extended ranges of up to 1,000 yards. My friend is sort of a gunsmith hobbyist like a lot of us and he started doing minor gunsmith work for local people. One of the things he did was help folks site in properly on his range. Almost to the man he never heard those long range stories again once those folks had used his range. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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NAPHA recommended minimum caliber for Namibia is 7mm. Namibia does not have a minimum Caliber they have a minimum Joules. I took a 6.5mm Big Game 5400 Joule (Elephant, Cape Buffalo, Rhino, Lion, etc.) Large Game 2700 Joule (Greater Kudu, Cape Eland, Oryx / Gemsbok, Red Hartebeest, Blue Wildebeest, Black Wildebeest, Hartmann's Zebra, Burchell's Zebra, Giraffe, Sable Antelope, Roan Antelope, Waterbuck, Tsessebe, Leopard, etc.) Medium to Small Game 1350 Joule (Springbok, Impala, Blesbok, Gray Duiker, Steenbok, Ostrich, Caracal, Black-Faced Impala, Red Lechwe, Damara Dik-Dik, Klipspringer, Black-Backed Jackal, Warthog, Cheetah, Nyala, Chacma Baboon, Game Birds, etc.) | |||
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Shooting as many rounds as I have, which doesn't mean I'm an expert, bullet drop at range can be predicted but only actual experience at different ranges will tell you how much any given bullet weight/cartridge drop at a given range. What would you expect a .50 BMG to drop at 1000 yards. 337 inches is what it works out to in real life with Barrett's 661 Boattail. The only way to know how far a bullet drops is to shoot it at that range. Guns and hunting | |||
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A friend was telling me he shot sn eland with a 7mm STW rifle I built for him, at 700 meters. He broke its neck. We asked him where he aimed. He said “dead at him” Another friend said,”you must have had a hell of a flinch then! And hit it by mistake!”. Judging distances needs experience. Even then it all depends on the terrain. | |||
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This book is rather funny. He was staying at a farmers place, and both went hunting. Late in the afternoon, when the sun was down, they mistook a neighboring horses for quagga, and proceed to shot some in the semi darkness! Gordon wanted to pay for the shot horses, but his farmer friend decided that his neighbor is not not a nice man so he should not be paid, leaving him to think wild animals killed his horses! | |||
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One of the most striking things about many of the old hunting books is how often they shot at and wounded multiple animals in a herd/pride and then just went about their business. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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I have mates that single load 90 grain bullets in their 20" service rifles and shoot the 1,000 yard matches and score very well. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Yeah but that's a tuned rifle....not an off the shelf Howa shot out the window of a 4x4!  ------------------------------ A mate of mine has just told me he's shagging his girlfriend and her twin. I said "How can you tell them apart?" He said "Her brother's got a moustache!" | |||
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And no end of broken legs, gut shots, etc. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Next morning, having bathed and breakfasted, Campbell and I parted, he for Colesberg and I for the Karroo. I trekked on all day, and, having performed a march of twenty-five miles, halted at sundown on the farm of old Wessel, whom I found very drunk. My road lay through vast plains, intersected with ridges of stony hills. On these plains I found the game in herds exceeding any thing I had yet seen—springbok in troops of at least ten thousand; also large bodies of quaggas, wildebeest, blesbok, and several ostriches. I had hoped to have purchased some horses from Wessel, but he was too drunk to transact any business, informing me that he was a Boer, and could not endure the sight of Englishmen, at the same time shoving me out of the house, much to the horror of his wife and daughters, who seemed rather nice people. | |||
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Some people HEAR stuff and never read up on it. Elmer Keith shot at and hit the animal a 500 yards, and admits it was totally a fluke. He'd about shot all his rounds, and was only doing so to help a hunter who'd wounded the animal, and wasn't hitting it now, stop it. The distance was later confirmed with a transit. He was also a top competition shooter who shot a Camp Perry. One time, shooting in a 600 yds match, each day, all week, came in 2nd by a point. This using the old 03 and ladder sight. But they also had gauges to set the site with. But the 06 a far better gun than the stuff Gordon Cumming shooting with. | |||
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Saeed, I read Cumming's memoir as well. Got discouraged at all the game he slaughtered, but will not judge him by the "rules" of the present. Let us not forget that at the Long Range Muzzle Loader Match held every March in Oak Ridge, TN, the lads are shooting iron-sighted muzzleloaders -- 10 shots each at 200, 300, 600 and 1,000 yards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvpYxh-qe9Q Of interest to some may be that David Minshall of Research Press in the UK will be holding a re-enactment of the great Creedmoor Match of 1874 on its 150th anniversary, in 2024 at Oak Ridge -- muzzleloaders vs. cartridge rifles. http://www.researchpress.co.uk...pring-2019-oak-ridge There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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1864; Confederate Sharpshooters in the Army of Tennessee received 20 of the 40 Whitworth target rifles (Lee's Army of Northern Virginia received the other 20). These were 2nd quality Whitworth's and cost the Southern government $1,000 each. They were provided a quantity of machine made hexagonal projectiles and a bullet mold to field cast cylindrical projectiles. I have followed their movements through the last days of the American war between the States for 40 years and have actually dug both dropped and fired examples. Some were equipped with Davidson 4x scopes (brass 3/4" tube) but most had open sights. Ike Shannon was one of those men and his exploits at the battle of Franklin and Nashville, Tennessee would stun most modern Snipers today. These projectiles had a weight of 525 grains and were 1.41 inches in length. Ike dropped 4 out of 5 shots on Union Artillerymen at Franklin, missing the last shot due to a Parrot shell (Union 3" artillery shell) exploding nearby his position. He was at the rock quarry and the battery was just outside the Union works on Columbia pike. Let's just say it was a great distance. I have also recovered hexagonal fired bullets from an impact area (small) that were fired from a distance of 800 yards. Long range shooting with open sights has been around for a long time.  Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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David, that's fascinating. Years ago I bought one of the last Parker-Hale Whitworths that Navy Arms imported; Val Forgett was still alive and well. I fitted it with a platinum lined nipple. It came with that clamshell mold you used with a vise to squeeze the hex shape into a soft cast slug. I wish I had invested in better sights to see what it could really do. Cumming had the luxury of great herds of unspoiled and unspooked game to practice on. We'll never see those conditions again. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Not impossible with a good rifle and an aperture sight. Shooting service rifle (FN FAL 7.62) in competition most shots could hit a 24" circle at 500M (550 yards). Provided the wind was not blowing too hard. The competitors were of course not the duffers but the best shots in each unit. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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David, That's bloody amazing info.  My great great grandfather was a regimental commander under Forrest and was killed leading the attempt to take the bridges over the Duck River at Columbia in the advance to Spring Hill. It sure can be done, shooting at those ranges with open sights. The Boers shot the hell out of the Brits with open sighted Mausers. | |||
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I'd love to have the relics that are still in the Duck, Elk and Harpeth rivers, not to mention the Stones. Those were tough times and some tough men. During the battle of Stones River (we call it the battle Murfreesboro)Confederates had .45 caliber Kerr rifles but not much is mentioned about them but I surmise there would have been some sharpshooting going on. Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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I don't know much about them compared to you, but I remember reading that the Kerr was described as the poor mans Whitworth. General Lee remarked that his Whitworth men were worth more than any of his regiments of infantry. | |||
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The only area I've known the .45 cal rifle bullets to occur in middle TN were at Murfreesboro, and I have seen examples dug by friends but never found one myself. They are small, compact "3 ring" bullets, often called Minie balls. The so called rings are actually grooves, meant to contain lubrication. I doubt there were ever many carried in the western theatre. Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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David, my great-great uncle was with Rosecrans at Murfreesboro -- First Wisconsin Infantry. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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You damned Yankee  Nathan loved Old Rosey……... | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Roualeyn Gordon Cummin Shooting Springbok at 600-800 Yards
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