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First, thank you Mims for your Africa List on your web site. Good info there. Not that I will or would, but you know, you go with a good huntin' buddy, who is out of water and thirsty, and he asks if he can have a slug of your water. Kinda hard to tell him Nope. But I will, just wondering why you don't share water? Hell, I might run out and get thirsty too!! Waidmannheil, Dom. "Have water purification tablets on your person in case you are a long way from the truck and need to refill from the local source. Do Not Share Your Water With Anyone! I repeat... do not share your water!!!!!" -------- There are those who only reload so they can shoot, and then there are those who only shoot so they can reload. I belong to the first group. Dom --------- | ||
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Thanks God it's just a "good hunting buddy"...if it was just "someone" dying of thirst maybe you can shoot it to avoid him some suffering ????  L | |||
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Lorenzo, I think the point was transmission of possible disease. It is never a good idea to share your water bottle with anyone. Red flags that come to mind are the Flu, Common Cold, Herpes, Hepatitis etc... If the guy is your friend, they will not only understand, but would hopefully not even be in the position of being thirsty as they would have prepared for any emergency just like you. | |||
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We take our own Nalgene bottles, along with powdered Gatorade, that way we know we have clean bottles. We leave the bottles with the PH at the end of the trip. Regards, Terry  Msasi haogopi mwiba [A hunter is not afraid of thorns] | |||
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Which is why I like using a CamelBak that I carry myself. No chances then of others having a drink from my bottle, while the tracker is carrying it in his backpack. If a close friend whom I know very well, needed to drink from my bottle, then I would feel forced to let him do so, even though I would prefer not. In fact, and it might seem a bit crazy, when my wife and I drove thru africa, we had our own seperate bottles for this exact purpose. Warm/hot water bottles (water stored in bottles in Africa can get incredably hot!)are nice breading grounds for bacteria, and our hope was that if one of us had some kind of bug, then the other would at least not get it from drinking all the time from the same bottle. Mind you, these bottles often didn't get washed for very long periods of time due to us not having access to much water in some regions. Having had a few really nasty waterborne/water-transmittable illness, I definately see the wisdom in having my own personal bottle/CamelBak. | |||
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Dom, I hope your pal does not put you into that position but in many cases you can get something that will ruin your safari or maybe later ruin your life...according to what disease is passed. I would not let anyone die of thirst but then again I hate to see the bottle passed around. I can think of many folks that I would not care to drink after due to thier personal hygiene habits. There could be a time when due to kindness on your part you find yourself alone and in dire need of water. The water you shared could be the difference in if you make it out alive or not. You can borrow money but you can not borrow time. Go hunting with your family. | |||
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After my first safari to Zimbabwe in 1994 I came back with a sickness which was later diagnosed as glandular fever. It took me three years to get rid of it. The PH had a tracker carrying a 5 litre water bag, which he, up to four trackers and game scouts and me the client all used. Having learned that lesson I now INSIST on a separate water bottle ONLY for the client, ie me. Normally at home I hunt "self-guided" so always carry my own water at home anyway and a camelback is a great way to carry a good supply. Most Aussie guides also expect the client to carry their own water anyway. Unfortunately these fellows in Africa have a lot of diseases including much more nasty ones than the one I caught. | |||
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Jeez, in the land of AIDs and every other crud, why would anyone be dumb enough to drink after one of the camp staff?? That's just plain suicide IMO... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I've not been to Africa but I NEVER share food or drink with ANYBODY but my wife. I also wash my hands several times a day. Amazing how I never get sick anymore since I started this. If someone want's a sip of my water they'd better have a cup or glass for me to pour it into or be dying of thirst or they'll do without. $bob$ | |||
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I have no problems sharing water in the US, I'm paranoid about 3rd world conditions too. A simple fix is to carry a folding cup. REI carries the Flatworld Orikaso cup for $4: http://www.rei.com/product/47907750.htm? They are suprisingly sturdy but kinda funky, not my choice for a real cup but you can fold them up and if your water bottle is in a bag or pouch, just shove it in there. for every hour in front of the computer you should have 3 hours outside | |||
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Ray You know you can't catch AIDS from saliva. So it isn't recommended to drink out of streams and cattle troughs either? | |||
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Erik, When I take my wife to Africa we are not worried about fluid transfer. In fact it's part of the fun of having your wife on the trip with you in the first place.  I don't however recomend any type of "fluid" transfer with any of the camp staff. Your own water bottle/ camel back, is a great idea | |||
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I've not been to Africa, but in central america, it is common for the indians to carry TB but not have symptoms. I'm always careful with my food and water, and am not afraid of insulting anyone about it either | |||
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The key, gentlemen is, to buy a half dozen of the little accordian drinking cups, and give one to each of the people who accompany you in the field! With these, one can pour water from a common bottle into each person's cup without tainting the water supply! These little cups fold down to fit in your shirt pocket, and ar a couple dollars each.  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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NitroX, the most recent research suggests that it is unclear if new strains of HIV can be passed via saliva. So to me if its "maybe" then its yes. The problem with treating HIV with the current "cocktail" type drugs ( no pun intended ) is the virus is constantly evolving and mutating. Try to pin a Dr. or research scientist down for an absolute answer regarding HIV and all you get is "to the best of our knowledge". The fact is we know very little about the virus. I know that sounds wrong after hearing all the public service anouncements in the media. But they are not as concerned with the truth as they are with minimizing the negative public view of the gay community..........JJ " venator ferae bestiae et aquae vitae " | |||
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I have several friends that are law enforcment, firemen, and paramedics and they all seem to agree that their most recent training indicates that ANY exchange(s) of bodily fluids are highly suspect for HIV infection exposure. I'd rather play Russian Roulette than exchange bodily fluids with anyone other than my wife and that includes saliva traces on a water bottle. $bob$ | |||
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Wowww...... Don't cross a road...cars can kill you. The comment was about a GOOD HUNTING BUDDY, not a safari staff member in the middle of the Congo... Here in South America we drink a kind of tea called "mate", the thing goes around from hand to hand and everyone share the same silver straw called "bombilla"....maybe because of this we are not so sensible about sharing a bottle of water with our good hunting buddies...  L | |||
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I didn't say that we didn't swap other bodily fluids.  Just tried not to share the drinking bottles!  Seriously though, on a Afican hunt of normal duration, I wouldn't hesitate sharing a bottle with my wife (naturally). Hell, here at home we both drink straight out of the same juice carton that's sitting in the fridge etc. But on our trans-african trip, things had to be done a bit differantly as medical help was basically nonexistant in many regions. So staying healthy was very important. And as hygiene was less then optimal, with showers sometimes a couple of weeks between, we were covered in some pretty nasty grime at times. There were exeptions of course, and sometimes we had to share bowls and eating utensils with locals along the way. Here's a small quote from our website diary (from Niger):
The wooden bowl with it's crusty, gunked up rim was the only bowl this family had, and thus it was shared by us, their whole family, their couple of goats and their dog! As we (and the family) didn't finish off the cereal which was made out of the previous evenings undrunk milk, the rest was given to the animals to share, from the same bowl, which suprised us a bit. Funnily enough, this gastronomic encounter didn't make us sick. However, we were told later on that fermented camel milk with millet prohibits bacteria from growing, and this might be the reason. This family was also so isolated that the chance of catching something nasty was most likely less then had they been a town/city family. The Hausa family with the crusty milkbowl:   | |||
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My ex wife is the last one I trusted in the body fluid arena .Back in the pre HIV/AIDS days my military and hunting buddies and I shared food, drink and girl friends (serially over time; not concurrently). Camelback water carriers are the cat's ass. In an emergency, it is good to know that they have one way valves. Keep a few alcohol wipes in your pocket. Wipe the bite valve before and after sharing. Many of the bugs that make life miserable are spread by the "fecal-oral" route. That is why the concept of "wipe your ass with your left hand, eat with your right hand and don't clasp your hands" has been around for a few thousand years. One of the big problems is that there are many diseases endemic to the tropics that us folks from temperate zones have not been exposed to. So, our immune systems are not at all prepared for these strange bugs. This leads to the "shit through a goose" syndrome. By the time you realize something is wrong you are probably back in the US dealing with a doctor who has zero experience dealing with tropical diseases. Eventually he/she sends you to an infectious disease specialist. That person spends $20,000.00 of your money running a boatload of esorteric tests. Then they give you $40.00 worth of an old fashioned antibiotic/antiparasitic medicine and you feel better. lawndart  | |||
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Lorenzo But you and your buddies probably share women too! | |||
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With the exception of mothers, sisters and wifes...the rest are free range oportunity targets L | |||
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Lorenzo, I would dearly love to hunt with you guys down south, but I don't care who you are, I will not drink from the same straw as anyone else. You can look both ways when crossing a street to avoid cars,but HIV, and some of the bugs in far away countries are beyond our ability to ward off, and you can't see them. Avoiding passing along germs is no less prudent, the looking before stepping into a busy street! Drinking after another person in Africa,or anyplace else, is no more sensable than drinking from a pan, full of Elephant shit, or a dead Buffalo! Others may do as it suits them, as for me, I'll drink my own water, thank you!! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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A related question to the topic of this thread. When on safari has the PH ever arranged for you a separate water container just for you the client? I know none of the guided hunts in Africa or elesewhere this has NEVER been the case in my hunts. Of course every man (or woman hunter  ) is responsble for themselves and should be able to think ahead and plan for themselves, but it would seem a natural thing for the client(s) to have their own water supply supplied for them on a hunt. Water is not a luxury it is an essential, but when all the luxuries are provided why not also safe drinking water (ie safe from passing on germs from other members of the party).I think the idea of collapsible cups is a really good idea. But what is still to stop someone from drinking straight from the bottle? | |||
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We have always had seperate bottles for us, and others for the trackers. In Tanzania the past 3 years, we had bottled water, and we have no one object to sharing a bottle with anyone else on teh truck. A few years ago, I caught tick fever, and did not have any treatment for it. When I got back home, my doctor went berserk! He said "That was a VERY stupid thing to do, not take antibiotics! This thing can eat your brain linings!" or something to that effect. Walter replied "Don't worry doctor. If it only affects the brain, it won't have any effect on Saeed. He has no brain. In fact, I have heard an old Beduin once state that if we held Saeed by his feet and shook him with his head down, lead pellets will come out of his ears!" | |||
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 $bob$ | |||
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If I know someone well enough to travel to Africa with, I would have no problems sharing a drinks bottle with them...Not so the Africa staff however. Having seen some of them smile and reveal a mouth full of stumps, gaps and rotting teeth, I think I would rather share it with my dog! | |||
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Thanks everyone for their input, and even a few laughs. I think the best thing to do is take a small Camelbak. Good info to keep in mind, Waidmannsheil, Dom. -------- There are those who only reload so they can shoot, and then there are those who only shoot so they can reload. I belong to the first group. Dom --------- | |||
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Dom, Thanks for your sense of humour, sometimes we are serious and sometimes not. A small camelback will be a good idea. Take care L | |||
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This seems like a pretty simple issue: either take your own bottle or else drink from the public trough. | |||
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wow everyone is so nervious about this topic, guess the fear tactics here in the states are working well. i wouldnt drink behind staff, but other than that i'm not worried, hell i have drank out of streams and once standing water in zim and i'm fine. i just dont buy all the sales pitches and aint that worried about it. sorry about the spelling, I missed that class. | |||
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Well, I've just have to get in on this one .. Been all over,.. India, SE Asia, Africa, Europe, Central Am .. back in the 50's you never drank the water any place out of the country (except England .. drank wine in France) .. the deal was that you only ate fruit that you peeled or drank bottled soda pop .. went to the Taj Mahal in a taxi on a 105 degree day, case of coke in the trunk.. finished the warm coke with no complaints .. things around the world have gotten much better as years have gone by .. however, that being said .. the best travel/ in the bush advice/ is "don't drink the water unless from a bottle, or has been boiled -ie, tea .. and you can get bottled drinks just about anyplace in the world .. err on the side of caution .. one bout with amoebaic dysentary will shake you to the core, and you'll have learned your lesson.(if you survive).. Africa travel can be a unique problem , can't be too careful .. I know one guy that was very careful, liked his scotch, used bottled water, but, not thinking, had ice cubes supplied by the help.. after the trip he (not sick) realized the the ice was made from local well water .. didn't get sick .. must have been the alcohol ..just lucky I guess ..  . mpbMark P | |||
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MD Travel Health Do not drink tap water unless it has been boiled, filtered, or chemically disinfected. Do not drink unbottled beverages or drinks with ice. Do not eat fruits or vegetables unless they have been peeled or cooked. Avoid cooked foods that are no longer piping hot. Cooked foods that have been left at room temperature are particularly hazardous. Avoid unpasteurized milk and any products that might have been made from unpasteurized milk, such as ice cream. Avoid food and beverages obtained from street vendors. Do not eat raw or undercooked meat or fish. All travelers should bring along an antibiotic and an antidiarrheal drug to be started promptly if significant diarrhea occurs, defined as three or more loose stools in an 8-hour period or five or more loose stools in a 24-hour period, especially if accompanied by nausea, vomiting, cramps, fever or blood in the stool. Antibiotics which have been shown to be effective include ciprofloxacin (Cipro), levofloxacin (Levaquin), rifaximin (Xifaxan), or azithromycin (Zithromax). Either loperamide (Imodium) or diphenoxylate (Lomotil) should be taken in addition to the antibiotic to reduce diarrhea and prevent dehydration. If diarrhea is severe or bloody, or if fever occurs with shaking chills, or if abdominal pain becomes marked, or if diarrhea persists for more than 72 hours, medical attention should be sought. Oral Rehydration Powder Regards, Terry Msasi haogopi mwiba [A hunter is not afraid of thorns] | |||
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I have had some friends return from Africa with some nasty illnesses that took years to get rid of. It is not just Africa, although there perhaps things are worse than elsewhere. In a good number of the countries I visit people are much more casual about handling food - say you go to an office, they bring out tea and fruit, someone peels the fruit or takes biscuits and puts them on a plate and you are expected to partake. Out of politeness, I do (as little as possible), but I don't like the idea. I know what goes on behind the scenes in restaurants in North America, I can imagine what the standards are in many other areas. Of course minor intestinal distress is one thing, almost expected, but the possibility of serious illness means that you do have to watch your behavior. I would not eat the icing on a piece of birthday cake after someone not my wife or mother has blown out candles, no matter which country I was in. | |||
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Once a spanish friend told me this story: A patience goes to the doctor and asked him what he has to do to live a long life... The doctor told him to quit drinking, nothing of sex, no salt, no risky sports, no sharing water with buddies and much less sharing a cake in a birthday party The patience asked the doctor if doing this he was going to live a long life... The doctor answered...not neccesary, but your life will be an eternity.. L | |||
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Well let's see I've drank Kentucky water, Tennessee water, Korean water, Iraqi water etc. etc. I'm still kicking. I personally think a lot of you are blowing this out of proportion. "Science only goes so far then God takes over." | |||
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Jarrod .. you only have to get sick once, then you will know how much "out of proportion" you are !! ..had a friend with me in Kenya who thought the "Tuskers" beer was great .. he spent the next 5 days in the john .. one bout with the "crud" that keeps you in the tent for a week will change your mind .. .. stay healthy .. mbMark P | |||
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What Tusker is bad for you?- I drank a Ton of Tusker Beer in Tanz. Where can I get more?=Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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I too find it kind of funny to hear guys say they've drunk water all over the world, straight from streams, puddles, or whatever, and not gotten sick. Thus, they think problems with water are blown out of proportion. The real reason they didn't get sick was IMO pure luck. Had they known that the whole village upstream shits in the river (done all over Africa), or dumps the semi-burnt remains of their "cremated" family in the river(done in Asia), I'm not so sure these guys would be so quick to bend down and sip straight from streams, ponds and puddles without filtering... A Guinea Worm for example is not a fun pet to bring home from your trip to Africa! Boreholes are another matter, and are generally safe to drink from in my experiance. | |||
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Sometimes it takes multiple experiences to get some sense. I have drunk from some of the most remote, beautiful clear running cold mountain streams you can imagine in the Canadian Rockies. I have never had a problem. But first one friend, then another, then another got "beaver fever" (some parasite) from drinking similar stream water on other trips, and I finally woke up that I was lucky, that is all. | |||
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