I was reviewing some old posts on types of cases to carry ammo in on an airplane but it was not clear to me that it had to be kept separate from other checked bags. I know it can't be with the guns but can you put it in a checked duffel bag?
crl

Depends on the airline you are using. Go to their website and read and print their rules. Take a copy with you. Email their customer service and print that response as well.

Both Delta and SAA, at least for the past two years, have had the policy that your ammo is to be locked in your guncase. Some folks have gotten away with packing ammo in their luggage in a locked case but that is not their policy. Their policies are very clear on their individual websites.

I have not had anyone challenge me regarding ammo in my guncase and if they do, I can show them the rules!!

John

quote:

Originally posted by 30ott6:
Both Delta and SAA, at least for the past two years, have had the policy that your ammo is to be locked in your guncase. Some folks have gotten away with packing ammo in their luggage in a locked case but that is not their policy. Their policies are very clear on their individual websites.

I have not had anyone challenge me regarding ammo in my guncase and if they do, I can show them the rules!!

John

I will say that about the only question Delta asked me was whether the ammo was in the gun case, and the guys at the counter did not want it there. Presumably they had not read the rules.

I had mine in a locked box in my other checked bag. Different airlines, different countries, can have different rules. 30ott6 gives good advice about checking the rules. You may also want to ask your travel agent.

There seems to be a popular misconception that ammo can't be in the same case as your firearm. The last four times I have flown with a firearm (Delta and SAA) I have traveled with my ammunition locked in my gun case with my firearms and I never had anybody question that.

quote:

Originally posted by Jorge400:
There seems to be a popular misconception that ammo can't be in the same case as your firearm. The last four times I have flown with a firearm (Delta and SAA) I have traveled with my ammunition locked in my gun case with my firearms and I never had anybody question that.

I second that.

It might depend on where you get on the plane. If you get on at JFK it must be in a seperate bag, no exceptions. All of our other bags were already down that deep dark tunnel, no choice but to consolidate a carryon and check that( with all the ammo for three guns).

I have been packing my ammo in the gun case as well on all domestic and internatioal flights. I have never had to change that even one time.

However I did have a single TSA agent tell me I cannot do that. I said to him I sure can do it and have been for the last year and a half now. So unless the rules have recently changed I need you to show me that rule in writing. He said "no problem" then went over to some books and paperwork, another fella came to his aid and they began talking about it. Soon a third fella came over and told them it was just fins so long as the gun case was locked and secured.

He came over and said he would like to see me pack them seperate in the future but for now he would let it go. Hmmmmm Sore loser me thinks!

That was the only time I had and issue and have been doing it ever since!

Ha! Last time I flew with Delta (Dec. "05) for a Texas deer hunt, the Delta ticket agent at the SEATAC airport said I had to ahve my ammo in a SEPARATE checked bag other than the rifle case, so if the Delta written rule allows the guns and ammo in the same case, its a case of their own people NOT knowing what the rules are. I already had my ammo in my duffel bag, so the whole was really a non issue for me on this trip. The TSA guy was a breeze when it came to checking my rifle case before I left it with TSA for loading on the plane. Airlines can be like ur typical government, "we are here to help as long as its easy and convient for us", never mind what the rules say.

I flew Delta/SAA this past September. My ammo was in a small locked (TSA approved lock) Pelican case inside my locked Tuffpak that contained my rifle. The only one to comment on it was the NY Port Authority policeman at JFK that was called to inspect my rifle prior to checking by SAA and he said it was fine. No one else even questioned it.

Individual airlines are free to establish their own rules but are also usually bound by international law. It's a few years since I was in a position to check but the last time I did, I'm 99% sure the USA (like the UK) were signatories to the Air Navigation Order of 1960 something (?).

The Carriage of Dangerous Goods section of that order states ammunition should be packed in a seperate container to the firearm. also that each round shall be in it's own compartment and seperated from all other rounds.

However, from my experience (certainly in the UK) this act is usually only available in the airlines load and balance office and on the aircraft itself.

I'm sure that British Airways and other airlines handled by BA out of the UK at least would insist on ammo being seperated from the firearm.

It could be that the aforementioned US agent was correct in his original statement but didn't have a copy of the order itself.

Hope I haven't confused the issue too much...

quote:

The Carriage of Dangerous Goods section of that order states ammunition should be packed in a seperate container to the firearm. also that each round shall be in it's own compartment and seperated from all other rounds.

Maybe this is where the confusion is at. If the ammo is packed into a seperate container and then that container is placed inside the rifle case does that not meet the requirement?

When my ammo is packed inside the plastic slip case ammo box and then taped shut or rubber banded shut it's in fact in it's own case. Those boxes of ammo are then placed within the gun case. Hmmmm.........I can see the odd confused interpretation of this I suppose?

JJ,

They need to be kept entirely seperate. Usually by the rifle in the rifle case and the ammo in it's own container and then packed into your suitcase. The idea being that if someone gets their hands on the firearm they don't automatically get their hands on the ammo as well.

As a point of interest many airlines now seem to make it a rule (not a law) that ammo should also be in a locked metal container..... this obviously makes it more dangerous rather than less dangerous..... bloody silly when you think about it but probably dreamt up by some shit for brained check in agent somewhere...

Incidentally, the same act puts rifles into two classifications. One is "sporting rifles" which airlines are allowed to carry and all other rifles are classified as "weapons of war" which they are not allowed to carry..... so it's a good idea to ensure the comment on your booking is for "sporting rifles" rather than just rifles.......just in case your firearm encounters an anti hunter who knows the act....Probably wouldn't happen often but it has occasionally happened in the past.

quote:

Originally posted by crl:
I was reviewing some old posts on types of cases to carry ammo in on an airplane but it was not clear to me that it had to be kept separate from other checked bags. I know it can't be with the guns but can you put it in a checked duffel bag?
crl

In Sept 05 I flew Northwest and KLM via Kansas City-Detroit-Amsterdam- Johaanburg and return the same route. At KC I used credit card checkin and told the desk person I was traveling with firearms. She handed me a weapon not loaded card told me to put it in my case and lock it. I ask if TSA would like to see it and she said if they want to see it they will ask. Well I saw my cases going down the luggage belt before I walked away. Returning, at Johaanburg; no problems from airlines, but the little South African prick had his buddy carring my 50# gun case which had rollers on it while he was telling me I neaded to tip his buddy for helping. Then when he checked my guns in he ask me about the smaller case in my big case (I have an SKB the size of a golf bag that holds 2 guns in soft cases plus ammo and clothes.} The ammo case was plastic and not locked. He told me I could not do that and took the ammo back to the airlines and checked it with them. He told me he had just saved me a lot of money as that was my 3rd checked bag. When I came around the corner away from the security camera he was standing there with his hand out for a tip. What do you do give him $5 or take a chance on loosing $6000 worth of equipment. When I arrived in Detroit I missed my connection while waiting at customs. A TSA agent came and inspected my guns and ask me about my 376 Steyr. He then put my ammo case back in the gun case and told me to follow him. First he went to Northwest and got me a a new flight; then we went up stairs where he checked my bags and told them no addition inspections were require. Then he took me to the gate. The hold time we talked about the military and guns. I wish I could have bought a lottery ticked that day.

As of today, 2-8-06, this is what the Delta web site had to say:

"Weapons: Ammunition will only be accepted if it is boxed, small-arms ammunition, it weighs less than 11 pounds, and is packed in checked luggage only."

Last year, they included that they had to be packed with the firearm.

SAA's web site did not give directions, other than to give a weight restriction. ( http://ww3.flysaa.com/en/en_content_frameset.html?conte...general_content.html )

I think that it can depend also by national laws and rules.

In Italy is mandatory to put ammo in a locked box, separated by gun.

I think, however, that none will annoy you if you are in transit in some Italian Airport, and your ammo have already been packed and shipped with the rifle.

I know of no airline that says it can't be in a locked box in checked baggage. What I do is put 30 rounds in a locked cashbox in my luggage and another 30 in my gun case. That way if my bag doesn't make it I still have more ammo than I'll need in the gun case.

The last time I flew with a rifle (November @ Evansville, IN) the Delta agent made me unpack my Toughpak just to show that I DID NOT have any ammo in the same case as the rifle. I made a point of making her help me repack I asked the TSA guys (great guys at that airport) if they wanted to see anything. They just laughed and said "no, we've already seen it". I think they knew she was full of it. We advise all of our clients to pack their ammo in a small metal lockbox packed in their duffle and separate from the firearms case. A metal cash box from Wal Mart works grest. Our people usually come in on Lufthansa or Ethiopian Airlines and this seems to be the way those airlines want it. Also, upon arrival the ammo has to be left in customs for our security man to clear it anyway so it needs to be easily removed.
Rich Elliott

The old rules used to specifically state that the ammo had to be packed separate from the firearm. You will still find some ticket agents who try to enforce this rule.

TSA does permit the ammo and firearm to be packed in the same case. NOTE: TSA does not make the law, it just enforces the existing laws.

If you look at most airlines' websites there is no specific mention of whether ammo and firearms can be transported in the same case. You are therefore subject to the whim of the specific ticket agent you are dealing with at the time. The only way to avoid this, that I can think of, is to contact the airlines in advance and see if they can provide you with a copy of their written policy. This you can then show to the ticket agent. If they just quote the information that is on their website, then they haven't really addressed the issue of packing ammo in the same case as the firearm.

See Traveling with Firearms for a bit more information.

Regards,

Terry

Every time I see this question posted, I puzzle over some of the responses.

Some people feel the need to insist absolutely on their legal rights. But what they fail to appreciate is that their rights may not be known or understood, or may be ignored entirely, by the various officials, ticket agents and other quasi-authority figures that they will encounter in their travels.

Others say that they have always done it in one way or another--regardless of what the law or the rules and regulations may say--and that they have never run into a problem. That's very much like saying that they always exceed the speed limit but have never gotten a speeding ticket. The question is: How long will their luck continue and what will they do when it runs out? The answer is: Who knows when it will run out? But when it does--and it generally always does--they won't be happy.

The BEST practice--meaning the surest way to avoid ANY problems ANYWHERE--is to pack your ammunition separate from your gun case.

Specifically, the BEST practice is to put your ammunition inside a separately locked case and pack it in your checked luggage along with your clothing, etc.

Small, plastic pistol cases are best for this. They are tough, lockable and don't weigh very much or take up much room.

On my trip to Namibia my gun case and suit case were one and the same, this never created any problems either at Windhoek or Joburg.

7mm. guy

Like some have stated here, I just carry copies of both TSA and the particular airline I'm traveling with. My friend flew from San Diego to Atlanta to join up with me thee en route to Zim. The Delta folks in SD told him the ammo must be separate as he had it in the same case as the rifle. he promptly broke out the rules from Delta saying you could and they shut up. As for me, I always hedge my bets. I pack at least one box each in the gun case and the rest in my locked duffle bag. I've nver been questioned in either. I don't ask and they don't tell me. It's worked so far. jorge

Quoting MRLEXMA

quote:

The BEST practice--meaning the surest way to avoid ANY problems ANYWHERE--is to pack your ammunition separate from your gun case.

Specifically, the BEST practice is to put your ammunition inside a separately locked case and pack it in your checked luggage along with your clothing, etc

I repeat myself again and again.
The more drastic regulations are applied in Europe but are the ATA's I fear.

1 rigid box locked containing only the ammos, not weighting more than 10 lbs and registered apart as such, ammo.

What no to do :
packing ammos in a soft luggage
packing ammos loose touching each other
packing whatever with the ammos
packing ammos in another luggage (gun or not)
not declare it
not register it apart, as a piece of luggage.
weighting more than 5 kg (10 lbs) what means you have to forget steel heavy case and don't imagine bringing more than 80 cartridges , overweight.

So I congratulate You and envy You.

What I am using this trip is the Ammo Travel Case from Cabelas



It will hold 6 of the Remington sized boxes (it will hold 3 Remington and 2 Federal sized boxes; 4 Remington and 1 Federal sized box; or 4 Federal sized boxes). [I used .375 and .416 Rem boxes when I checked the carrying capacity of the case].

Cabelas doesn't describe the box, but it is the DoskoSport (by Doskocil) Gun Guard XLT Two Pistol Case [XLT-12]. Cabelas has it for $22.99, I have found it on the internet for as low as $20.00 (but I didn't compare the shipping costs to see if the final price was lower).

Regards,

Terry

crl,

I hope this tread cleared things up for you.

Clear as mud.

crl

It is quite simple. The answer depends on each airline's policy. Since the airlines don't have that policy listed on their websites, you are subject to the ad-hoc rules of each ticket agent (unless you can email the airline and get them to send you a copy of their policy - which you can then show to the ticket agent).

Moral to the story. Be flexible and be prepared. Start with the ammo in a hard-sided box in your luggage. You can always move it to the guncase if need be.

Regards,

Terry

Mr. Carr,

You have summed it up very well. That is what I had gathered but your eloguent use of the english language has certanily cleared it up.

crl

Just to show you how screwed up it can be, a couple of safaris ago, I checked in at a our small regional airport. The ticket agent said that my ammo "can NOT be transported in the guncase." I asked the TSA guy and he said, "It is their aircraft, you must follow their rules." So I had to unpack my Tuffpak and move the ammo to my checked luggage.

Last season, while checking in at Jo'burg on the way to Harare, the ticket agent told me that my "ammo MUST be transported inside the guncase." Even though I had the ammo in a locked pistol case in my checked luggage. Well I had to take my ammo out of the luggage and stuff it into the Tuffpak. When we went back to security with my Tuffpak (you only check your luggage at the ticket counter, then you are escorted back behind the ticket counter to the security office to check in your firearms), the security guys (not cops, civilian security officers) told me that "ammo is NOT allowed to be transported in the same case as the firearms." Since my luggage was already gone, I told them that I had tried to convince the ticket agent that she was wrong, but she insisted that I put my ammo inside my guncase. The security guys "let it slide this time." I didn't even have to bribe them.

Be flexible and polite, that is my best advice on this subject.

Regards,

Terry

I found what I was lookingfor in T. Carr's post on Delta flying to Africa. It is:
Rifles
One rifle case containing:

--two or fewer rifles (with or without scopes)
--one shooting mat
--one small pistol tool kit
--noise suppressers
--11 lbs. (approx. 5kgs) of ammunition

That would mean to me that Delta wants the ammunition in the rifle case.

That's what their policy states and the same with SAA. I repeat that you should print their policy plus email their customer service department and print that response. Take both with you in case you need to show a new agent their own rules.

I have never had a problem following their rules. In Atlanta, last year, the SAA agent asked me if my ammo was in my guncase. I said yes and that's all there was to it.

John

The bottom line in all this mixed information is that you should not check one piece at a time until the rules have been explianed at the counter, or at the TSA check-in.

Keep both pieces of luggage together until everything is settled. If you were to send one down the chute only to hear a moment later that you cannot put the ammo in the gun case or visa versa, it's possibly a huge problem at that point.

I insist on having my checked luggage locked both the gun and suitcase so I have both Xrayed or hand inspected by TSA, then the padlocks snapped onto both of them. Keeping them both together gives you this flexability to move the ammo from one to the other at the moment the final enforcement person makes the ruling!

I did have a hunter a couple years ago who was so freaked out by this confusion over where to put the ammo he decided to just simplify the whole thing and put it in his carry on.

That did not work out as well as he expected however.