Before I get accused of piling on, I'll first say that I think that the 416 Rem is a fine cartridge. I haven't found it to cause any more problems than any other cartridge. The only question that I had (and I think Alf, Ganyana, and a few others) was that the early stuff with the 400 Swifts was a tad warm. Warm enough that it might cause problems in SOME guns. Even at that, it didn't cause any "problems" in my gun, although it did register some impressive numbers and the case, primer, and chrono seemed to agree that the pressures were right at max, if not a little over. Again, this is only with the early Remington factory loads with the Swift. The flap on my stash says that it was manufactured in Jan 89 which must have been one of the first lots. I have no doubt that Remington has corrected any perceived problem. It wouldn't have taken much as, what I ran only needed to be reduced ~50fps and all would have been normal. Like I said before, it may have just been my gun, although neither the barrel nor chamber are SAMMI minimum spec.

As far as handloads, if anyone has pressure problems, the problem lies solely with the nut behind the butt.

lawndart

I still have some of those early loads but since I don't have a dog in this fight, I don't really want to give them away (they cost a fortune). Email me what you might have to trade. Also, I really don't know what it will prove other than how it "used to be" loaded.

Mike

Hey Mike,

PM enroute. I always have something tasty to trade. .

Curiosity. It is why I get up every morning. I want to see where we started, where we are now and then make a bet on where to go next.

JCN

In the final analysis there seem to be 3 solutions to the .416 Rem problem:

1. Handload it to safe pressure levels with a margin for overheating during summer months. In your rifle that may NOT achieve 2400 fps, but so what.

2. Replace it with a 416 Rigby.

3. Replace it with a 404 Jeffery.

After reading that comment, I'm going to be extra-careful around banana peels!

I do have some early Remington 400 Swift loads on hand if you'd like to test them. Send me a PM concerning same....

AD

500 Grs,
Are you insinuating that putting less powder in a case would solve this problem, shame on you, you have no dignity... Would you have one shoot his 416 Rem at 2375 FPS,???? shame shame....

I shall sell both of my 416's, they are junk, they have been for the last 20 years, its a wonder I have not blown myself up...I will from this day fourth only shoot my 404 with a dozen grs. of IMR-4831 (hows that Alf?) I know it will still best a 45-70! Anyone wanna fight?

.

Meet my new finder of fact:

I had a Sendero in 270 Win (don't ask me why, I don't know) that was pretty straight and had even bearing between the two lugs. My gunsmith (George Vais) squared the receiver and took off two turns and faced the barrel.



He trimmed the bolt face flat and flush.



For the initial calibration of the strain gauge he turned the barrel butt to 1.200" and recut a min spec chamber.



How tight do I torque it? Until the little line and the little circle make a little lollipop, of course .

How do I get the spent cases out? An old seized up Dewey cleaning rod and a small dead blow hammer, I hope .

Many thanks to Mike Brady for passing on this concept to me.

After I pay Big Sam the money I owe him next week I will order Lilja Barrels in .375 and .416.

I will also fill the stock with Devcon and lead shot before I mount a Limbsaver (with the Remington logo on it, of course).

Isn't science fun?

JCN

Alf,
That was all in good humor, no one is after you on this end, I have a lot of respect for most of your posts, always have.

Ray, I had better come and help Alf out

The problems I have seen are
1) Rem 700 rifles in .416 Rem, Breaking extractors. Seven in the last 8 years of examining
2) Bullets starting to "Pull" out of the cases. We have the same problem with compressed loads in the .458 Win

I have never seen a stuck case from a .416 Rem and the rifles chambered for it in Winchesters etc seem to be fine.

I have never had a client have a problem with this round. We had a local hunter smacked up by an elephant and bullet failure to penetrate seemed to be the cause. Ammo was old Federal, and all the bullets had pulled out of the crimping groove and moved forward between 1 and 2mm.

Charlie Haley Chronographed this ammo which gave 2100-2200fps. Should have been more than enough for the job.

I then went into L.G. Harrisons and had a look at their Federal Ammo in stock and in some boxes Rounds were starting to Pull. Obviously 1990's vintage Federal Ammo does not have a great shelf life ( Harrisons last Imported ammo from the states in '97)

Nimrod Ammo had a problem of unexplained pressure spikes in the .416 Rem using south African Powders and eventually downloaded their ammo to 2250fps to avoid it.

To be fair, the rifa training cource and the proficiency exams are held at the worst time of the year. It is not only heat and humidity but dust as well. The chamber will be coated with fine sand when the shooting starts even if the candidate cleaned it that morning. It is just the nature of the base camp and local conditions. One can almost guarantee that the metal work on the rifle will be too hot to comfortably hold before the shooting starts and a quick 6 rounds on the speed shoot exposes all maner of problems. - like Remington 700 extractors breaking, and weatherby bolt handels needing some enthusiastic assistance to open.

Very little of this though is clear cut. I have not seen an extractor break on a rem 700 in .375 - ever. Most PH's who use Weatherby rifles pull the bullets and drop the load slightly.

Also, the PH exams are in fact duplicating "worst case" scenarios for the aspirant PH's. Ele's and Buff should be taken with frontal shots, Local conditions are at their harshest, etc. Ammo used is often old... Horniday recon that their Heavy magnum loads in .458 Win have a shelf life of arround 6 months in a Zambezi valley summer. Fine if you are a visiting client with fresh ammo who leaves after three weeks. Not fine for the Appy who gets tossed the left over boxes and thinks " hey this is top grade ammo. I'll keep it as reserve in case of real trouble" and it sits in his belt for the next two years whilst cheep practice ammo is burned up and the odd PAC animal is taken while he carefully husbands his "special" ammo.

Much of my specific commentaries in the African Hunter, - oh and yes Magnum as well - Somewhat different versions were published in both - are aimed at the local industry, particularly youngsters entering the industry who usually recieve taty equipment and poor guidence from tutors who can afford a good double or a custom .500 Jefferies etc

A client comming out isn't likely to have to use his heavy rifle as a "main Battle rifle" and fire a 20 round rapid in a contact with poachers, or dogs or even just scaring some ele cows off. They are totally different requirments. If the client needs more that three fairly quick shots then things have gon wrong and it's time for the PH to be steping forward to sort the problem out.

Please do not confuse who the articles were written for

Straight from the horse's mouth, and very level-headed.
- mike

Lawndart,

Is there a brief way to describe the calibration, or calibration procedure? What is meant by "initial" calibration?

The strain gauge technology is essentially self calibrating. The modulus of elasticity for the barrel steel is known (unless it is a 2004 SS Sako FinnLite ). I can measure the inside and outside diameter of the barrel at the midpoint of the chamber, which is where I will glue on the strain gauge. I pull the trigger, the case expands, the gauge stretches along with the barrel, and eventually the chipmunks in the program tell me the pressure of that round in that gun. If I was only intending to load for myself that is where I would stop.



I have an itch, however, to load some safari type ammo for the niche calibers for sale. So. I have to know what the pressure reading would be if I were firing the ammo in a SAAMI spec'ed test rig at 70 degrees F and 60% humidity after 24-72 hours of "conditioning". So I work up a load until I get a pressure reading at a SAAMI specified standard for that caliber. Then I can send 12 rounds of that to a reference lab and see what pressure they get. If there is a difference I can tell that to the chipmunks in the computer, and they will then spit out what the pressure reading for a given load would be if it was fired in SAAMI test equipment. That is what I meant by calibration. That way when I work up a load, in say, a 404 Jeffery(s) or 416 Rem Mag I will be pretty close to goal when I send some of those off to the reference lab.



The SAAMI specified procedures are very cumbersome, but that is one tune I must dance to sooner or later.



The hard part will really come in trying to figure out loads that carry the mail, but also have a more useful lifespan and safe and reliable functioning in a very hot climate, in Ganyana's "worst case". The military has gotten pretty picky about that same issue in recent years. As luck would have it, the 416 Rem Mag does its best work with powders in the military's preferred burning range for .223 and .308 (Varget, RL-15, etc.).



JCN



Oh yeah, I also want at or near 100% load density so the powder doesn't shift around and shed its deterrent coating or otherwise increase its burn rate. At the same time I can't have too much compression or the bullets will spit out as Ganyana mentions above.

Ganyana,
Was hoping you might have something to say on this topic. Thanks for chiming in.

Ganyana,
Your making a good case for the Mauser IMO, and putting the Rem 700 in its place correctly...keep up the good work...I understand what you are saying and I agree, but that could happen with most any high intensity caliber...

IMO and in my experience with the 416 Rem, if loaded properly to 2400 FPS with the correct powder in a proper rifle, the results are simular to any other caliber..I load 79 Grs. of RL-15 at near 2400 FPS and have never had a problem in my Mausers..

Also I have not read that particular article for some reason, but was referring to a blurb in Man Magnum wherein reference was made to high pressures in the 416 Rem...

Alf misunderstood my post, I was kidding him about how I am going to load my 404 to apease him..I have been loading it with 95 grs. of IMR-4831 in which we have a disagreement of what is good and what is not!