I have to wonder is this place worth 1800 a day for a buff hunt? I am just browsing brochures and the web for an estimate on buff hunts in 08.

Thanks, John

Don't know who you are planning on hunting with, or exactly where, but I am going to Tanzania in late July this year, and I am not paying anywhere near that much. Check out Ray Atkinson's prices.

No, it is not worth $1800/day for a Buffalo.

If you want a beautiful Lion, and it is in the budget, then, yes it is worth $1800/day and then some.

Priorities.

You can get a great quality Buffalo hunt in Tanzania for a lot less than $1800/day. A good Masailand hunt for 10 days should run around $1300/day +/- including government fees. Prices on a 10-day, 2 Buffalo hunt range from $12,000 - $18,000 when you throw everything in, including 2 Buffalo trophy fees.

Just like cars, you can pay more or less, and you usually get what you pay for ... there are exceptions.

John,

Generally speaking if you are looking for a bargain hunt where you can just shoot a buffalo Tanzania may not be the place. On the other hand if you are looking for a good chance to kill a better than average buffalo or multiple buffalo and have that old time "East African Experience" Tanzania may very well be what you are looking for.

If the $1800 per day you spoke of did not include any trophy fees it was a pretty high price. Our prices are quite a bit lower than that.

Regards,

Mark

African hunting is the same as most other things in life......you get what you pay for. - Or more accurately, you don't get what you don't pay for.

In rifles, something like a CZ is reasonably inexpensive - if you want something like a Rigby double you have to accept the higher price.

If you want a cheap hunt then the best place to find it is probably Zimbabwe - if you want a quality hunt then Tanzania is one of the best destinations in Africa.....IMO it's the very best.

However, even there you do need to be cautious about who you book with and where you hunt. The buffer zones are cheaper but you'll probably see more Buffalo in a morning in the Selous than you'll see in a week in a buffer zone.

When you're researching prices you need to be very careful about what is and is not included in the price. Tanzania has a plethora of additional charges such as rifle import, licences, community development fees etc etc.

Many companies will offer what appears to be a cheap hunt price but if you look closer you'll find these additional costs might not be included in the quoted price.....

I am a neophyte buffalo hunter, but the most important thing in the Selous is timing. If you don't know what you are doing, book with Wendell or Mark. As Wendell said to me, "I wouldn't send my worst enemy to the Selous for a buffalo hunt in July."

Unfortunately, Cabela's will (or did). Oh, and they didn't mention some of the smallest buffalo come out of the Selous.

Do your homeowrk every time. I had a great experience with Cabelas in Mongolia, but I was really dissapointed with my hunt in Tanzania. I am booking my next few hunts with Mark and Wendell. I never get the "don't worryu about it" line - just good solid consulting advice, which is why you use a booking agent in the first place.

I agree with those who state thatr $1800/day is too high but again what's included. If air transport, trophy fees, taxes, etc are included then it may be in line. I haven't seen all of africa but of what I've seen I think it's hard to beat the Selous for a buffalo hunt. I hunted with Ray Atkinson there a few years ago and would recommend a call just to see what he can do.

I've never hunted Tanzania and probably never will and I don't for one minute doubt as to the high quality of most outfitters/PHs there.

Having said that, Zimbabwe is every bit as good as Tanzania for buffalo and less expensive. I'm obviously prejudiced, but I challenge anyone to find somebody more competent, honest and more importantly, with better buffalo than what is available from gents like John Sharp, Swainson's, HHK and others in Zimbabwe. Moreover, Tanzania seems like the land of the "add on" fees. Hell. they even charge a "rifle fee" or some such nonsense. And before anybody pipes up about the "dangers" of Zimbabwe, maybe so, but I venture to say that you are safer in the bush in Zimbabwe than I am in downtown Jacksonville Florida, not to mention, New York, D.C and let's not EVEN talk about Detroit! There, I feel better now. jorge

John,
The buffalo hunting in the Masai steppe in Tanzania is unequaled in my opinion and there are still some good deals to be had for a seven day hunt but I would advise you to go for at least 10 days.
Also....depending on the location you might want to go early in the season. We went late October and it was very dry. There were very few bulls and no wildebeest or zebra to be found. They were all back in the Tarangire park. I must say that it was stated by the PH that they were in a three year drought at the time.
I knew some people that went to the same camp the following years, a little earlier in the season and saw some giant bulls.
Anyway JMHO, from my one trip to Tanzania in 2000.
Good hunting,
Terry

Hey Ropes,

I don't have anywhere near the DG experience a lot of guys on this forum have but I have hunted in Zimbabwe, Mozambique, RSA and Tanzania. Each one was unique in its own right and had a lot to offer. BUT, I've saved for two years to go back to the Selous. I promise you, it's worth it.

By all means, talk to Ray Atkinson, or one of the other agents/outfitters that post here about what you'll get and what to expect. Make your decision based on the best available information and your budget. But you will never be sorry if you decide to go to Tanzania with a reputable outfit. You'll make memories there like no where else. Tanzania is probably as close to what the "old Africa" used to be and the amount of game you will be exposed to is staggering. Admittedly, it ain't a zoo but you'll have to keep telling yourself that.

Good luck.

Bull1

jorge-
Not trying to be argumentative here but...
If you have never hunted in Tanzania, how can you say that Zimbabwe is every bit as good for buffalo? Isn't it hard to know a lot about a country and what it offers if you've not been there? I would agree that Zim has several outfitters that compare favorably to those in Tanzania. And I would also agree that if a hunter just wants to kill a buffalo it is likely as good. BUT, if you want to kill a really big buffalo, or two... there is nowhere, I repeat nowhere else even remotely as good, IMO. I've hunted in both countries and I can't seem to find anything about Zimbabwe that would make me want to go there again. Just my .02

Hi Guys:

I have hunted both Tanzania in the Selous with Adam Clemmens... had a great hunt and shot a 46 in. Buffalo that scored 115 SCI...also five other plains game.

I also hunted Zimbabwe last year, shot some really great Plains Game, but no Leopard and never even seen a Buffalo. Did get a Huge Black Bull Giraffe, 42 in Sable, 35 in Black Waterbuck and others.

For me, and just for Buff... I LOVE the Selous, and some day will be going back with Adam. Nothing beats a tented Safari along a wild African riverbank in the Selous.

Regards... Jim P.

To answer the original question: Yes.

Depends on what that $1800 per day includes, if it includes a 1x1 hunt, charter flights in and out of camp, One Buffalo Trophy fee, daily rates, Gov. conservation fees, hunting license, PH and staff, 4x4 vehicles, field prep and dip and pack of trophies, then yes your getting a good deal and its well worth the money...

Problem is most folks just see a monatary figure and have no clue what that figure means or what it encludes until they do the homework...

You get exactly what you pay for and you can hunt Buffalo in Tanzania as cheaply as anyplace else, not so on perhaps 16 and 21 day hunts, but tanzania is the last of the real Africa IMO... I have no ajenda in this as I book hunts in all the African countries, I just happen to think Tanzania is the place to hunt..

Why is Tanzania so expensive?

Because it's worth it.

Tanzania is expensive because of the logistics of setting up a camp for 4.5 months..Everything must be hauled in by truck across some very roughg terrian along with a staff of about 20 folks to feed 3 times a day, this takes about 6 weeks or more and the camps are luxury camps where clients are flown in on bush strips that have to be built and/or maintained, and that is just for starters....when torn down all the cement floors for instance must be broken up in quarter size pieces and the camp restored to is natural self...Fuel is extremely expensive and must be brought in in 55 gallon drums by truck across a no road area that takes up to 5 days in many instances...You have trackers, skinners, camp boys, cooks, dishwasher, wood gathers, drivers, cooks helpers and on and on..

IN other words the logistics nightmare of the hunting camp is just damn expensive to the PH and company, plus the hiring of extra PHs at $350 per day and two vehicles running every day and on an on....

As to the buffalo hunts they are just a fill in between the big hunts so the staff and PHs arn't just sitting around not earning their pay, but those hunts still have to be conducted on the same basis as a big hunt, and the clients are just as important and must be treated accordingly, but they don't make a lot of money on the 7 day hunts.....

Anyway thats enough to give you and idea of the reasoning behind tanzania hunting.

Daily fees on a 10 day hunt 18 000$? Even at 1300$ a day...I´ll stick to a) hunting plainsgame b) aiming at the neighbors cows (unloaded rifle ) and pretending they´re buff!

That's not the point right?
If you could afford $18K you would and you would feel it "was worth it"

As a resident, my average buff hunt costs me between $100 to $250 for 1 to 2 days of hunting. However, I have always wanted to be able to go on one of these $1,800 a day hunts and feel like a king

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
African hunting is the same as most other things in life......you get what you pay for.

Or you could just get overcharged.

The real issue is whether you can get the same thing elsewhere for less.

I guess I could afford it if I saved up for a couple of years, buff and maybe a sable. The question is if I´d rather hunt MORE ie spend more time in the field than go for a buff every second or third year. If money wasn´t n option AT ALL then I know what I´d be doing 200 days a year!

And it ain´t fishin´.

John S: No offense taken. I have spoken to people that have hunted Tanzania, and they do love it. They've also hunted Zimbabwe in places like Matetsi and Dande for a lot less than 1800 bucks per day and the buffalo are just as good.

Now like Ray says if that includes EVERYTHING. air charter, trophy fees, packing, dipping and all the other fees that Tanzania has, then it might be a different story. But I just don't see why places like Dande province in Zimbabwe or Mozambique aren't every bit as good for a whole lot less money.jorge

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
John S: No offense taken. I have spoken to people that have hunted Tanzania, and they do love it. They've also hunted Zimbabwe in places like Matetsi and Dande for a lot less than 1800 bucks per day and the buffalo are just as good.

Now like Ray says if that includes EVERYTHING. air charter, trophy fees, packing, dipping and all the other fees that Tanzania has, then it might be a different story. But I just don't see why places like Dande province in Zimbabwe or Mozambique aren't every bit as good for a w
hole lot less money.jorge

Jorge:

I have done a lot of digging around. I am probably going to book a hunt in Tanz that allows me to shoot all the plains game and 3 buffalo in 14 days. That includes a sable. For another 7500 I can shoot a leopard if I get a chance. So the total for this hunt is 44K. I shoot 3 buff, a sable, an eland, bushbuck, 2 reedbuck, a topi, oribi, hippo, and crocodile (I left out a zebra and kudu).

Compare that to a buff/sable/leopard in Zim. Cost fot that hunt is 28K incl charter. So for 15K more I get to shoot two more buffalo and perhaps a hippo or croc. If I don't shoot the hippo or croc, I am paying 41.5K for the hunt, or in other words, 13.5K for two more buffalo, which incidentally, from what I can tell, are much larger than those in Zim (I am not going to the Selous).

In the back of my mind there is also some risk that the US will put trade sanctions on Zim. And then guess what? You don't get your trophies.

I guess the reason I am considering going to Tanz is the quality of the game. There isn't a booking agent around who says you can count on shooting a sable over 40 inches or a buffalo over the same in Zim. Sure, you might get the chance at the buff, but the sable are not going to be huge. In tanz, both species are over 40 and the good thing with buff is you get two or three, not just one.

I would like to know who is this agent that guarantee's you a 40+ inch sable and buff in Tanzania and what area?

You are hunting from a 21 day license for eland, sable, 3rd buff, crocodile so why not hunt the other species like lion, roan, kudu, etc?

Does the $44K include trophy fees?

AZ: Trophy fees in Zim are 2k/buff and you can certainly contract for two. There are plenty of sable and Zim has some great kudu. I can hunt buff and leopard in Zim on a 14 day for about 16k and taht includes trophy fees. Air charter is 1200 bucks. Also, there is no hard evidence that buffalo are bigger in Tanz than Zim at least not according to Craig Boddington. Bottom line is 1800/day is Way out of line. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
I would like to know who is this agent that guarantee's you a 40+ inch sable and buff in Tanzania and what area?

You are hunting from a 21 day license for eland, sable, 3rd buff, crocodile so why not hunt the other species like lion, roan, kudu, etc?

Does the $44K include trophy fees?

No one guarantees anything. But I have been told by more than one that these numbers are what you can expect. I have been told the best areas in Zim produce bulls about 39 inches; in Masai and western Tanz, there are some outfits that didn't shoot anything less than 40 inches. Yes, that figure includes trophy fees. Why not lion? Because the deal is a 21 day license for plains game only, but the hunt is only 14 days. Why not roan, kudu, etc? You can shoot them on this deal if you want; I just think in 14 days you have to limit yourself.

Jorge: I agree Zim has good kudu, but the sable are not that great. If someone knows better, please let me know and maybe I will take a second look. The other issue is you can't hunt buff, sable and leopard in one area. If you could shoot a sable in Zim on a sable only hunt, you are still talking minimum of $7500.

I think that Tanzania is worth the money, especially if you're hunting with a good PH in a top area. Personally, I'd rather hunt Tanzania than any country I've been in so far. Three buffalo on a 21-day license, great lion, unique east African plainsgame animals, hippo, croc, huge leopard, reasonable elephant trophy fees, the mystique and feel of east Africa -- the Robert Ruark Africa we all grew up reading about -- the sound of Swahili in the morning, fine tented camps, white shirt/black tie debecked waiters at breakfast and dinner, camps that sing and celebrate when you bring in a big cat................

You might equal of exceed some of it in Botswana or Zambia, but you won't equal of exceed it anywhere else.

AD

I appreciate all the information..

The 1800 was just a number I pulled from a few of the net sites I had browsed.

Tanzania has always been on my list because of all I have read/heard about it. I would most likely be limited by finances to a 10-14 day hunt with the main objective being Buffalo.

John,

It is well worth the cost of admission. Kind of the Cadillac of Safaris imo. Go!

US$1800 I too rich for me, no matter how much I would like to do it.

Anyone need someone to carry their big heavy DG double for them while they carry the light plains rifle?

$1800/day doesn't seem totally unreasonable. I'm going in September @ 1700/day and I thought that was a good deal. That price includes everything except extra trophies above one Buff bull.
The charter flight alone from Dar to any camp can run over 2 grand.
Besides, after dreaming of hunting Cape Buffalo for 42 years, how do you put a dollar value on the dream of a lifetime?

quote:

Originally posted by almostacowboy:

Besides, after dreaming of hunting Cape Buffalo for 42 years, how do you put a dollar value on the dream of a lifetime?

I can certainly understand that point of view. But if you change perspective and think of an Afrian safari as a yearly necessity rather than a once in a lifetime event, price shopping becomes more important to some of us.

quote:

But if you change perspective and think of an Afrian safari as a yearly necessity rather than a once in a lifetime event, price shopping becomes more important to some of us.

That's almost counterintuitive, but I can see your point. Unless you were sufficiently affluent that once a year in Africa is peanuts.

Seems there are several thresholds that come into play WRT financial perspective on a $15,000 USD hunt.

Short of a windfall or changing careers, a buffalo hunt once (or maybe twice) a decade might be realistic for me. With significant sacrifices to boot. So, while its not necessarily a "once in a lifetime" opportunity, price shopping is very important to me. Every $500 I can save is a REALLY big deal at home.

Cheers,
Canuck

Personally I think Tanzania is worth what you pay, if you get a good P.H. and area. The reasons Ray mentions regarding the cost of setting up camps etc. are informative as well. However, I hunt there and do have a preference for the country I hunt.

I have some good areas, I am not cheap on my Lion hunts, but not $1800 per day either. Reasonable on Buffalo hunts.

I would be happy to discuss costs and areas with you.

Have a look at my site.
Best,
Phil
www.go-on-safari.com

I don't think the question is so much is "is it worth it" as it is "can you afford it". Kinda like is Russian caviar worth it, or is it worth it to drive a Hummer to work. Is it economical? Personally, I don't think so. If you are an average American working at an average job, the cost is probably going to be more than your annual disposable income, and you will have to save for a while to pay for it. If your real goal is to shot a buffalo, Zim is cheaper. If you just wanted a buffalo head to hang on the wall, you could go to an auction and buy one for $300 - $400. That said, if you can afford to spend the money to do it right, you will have a great time.

AZ:
Tell me which concession/area you will be hunting and I will tell you if your expectation at a 40" sable and buffalo are correct.

As far as those outfitters that claim they have not shot a buff under 40" in a whole season i have two comments to make:
1- they are "stretching" the tape
2- They shoot less than 5 buffalo a year (which should get you wondering)

All I can say is that it was well worth it for me. I needed a safe place to hunt, a good PH that would latch on to me in Dar give me a good Buffalo hunt, and guide me from then until I sat foot on the plane to leave. He did it all as promised on a very professional basis, getting me some fine animals. I now have my trophys at the Taxidermist and a very fine memory, with going back on my mind. I am sure there are other places that could have provided the same, but there is just something about Tanzania and the Selous. Good shooting.

Some need to get their pencil out and find out what is included and what is not in those cheap priced Zim hunts..I have no dog in the fight as I can send you to either place..

Zimbabwe 5 day buff average $8000. add a $2400 Bufflao to that, a second Buff at an additional $2400, then a 2% Gov. tax, dip and ship, transfers in and out of camp air or drive in, and hey its a horserace and the 7 day Tanzania at $10,500 2x1 to $12,500 1x1 hunt is definatly in the running...I believe the hunt is a better hunt by a long shot, and unless you have done both, you cannot make that judgment..I like the tented camps as opposed to the luxury lodges, and I like the weather in Tanzania, I like seeing the herds of Buffalo every day, perhaps as many as 300 a day as opposed to one or two or whatever that one normally sees in Zim and I say normally, some places have a lot of Buff in Zim but not like Tanzania...I like the idea that I will probably shoot a better bull in Tanzania and he will have bigger bosses and he could be 48 to as much as 50 inches if the Red Gods smile big time. Most of the worlds great Buffalo come out of Tanzania.

I know of some really cheap hunts, folks call me all the time when booking a hunt and tell me about them, and how they wished they had shopped around a bit more, its a tough world out there. But there is the 2 or 3rd timer to Africa who has it all figured out, then after 7 or 8 fiascos he gets the picture and his opinnion normally changes..

You get what you pay for, but still you need to put some effort in your choosing, and get all the facts, do your homework and go with your gut feeling.

Both countries have good hunting and both are doable for anyone than can afford a trip in the first place and may, who knows, one is a $1000 cheaper, but if your going half way around the world and spending a bucket of money, for goodness sake, don't let a $1000 bill ruin your hunt, wait a year to buy a new car or whatever, go close to first class on this trip, you may never get another chance...

Like I said I can send you to Zim, Mozambique, Botswana, Zambia, but I would rather send you to Tanzania, and you won't regret it, that's my only guarentee....

phurley:

You should go back soon!..When?

Ray:

I think your Tanzania prices also include Air Charter as well?

In general I agree with the concept of "you get what you pay for" with the possible exception being cancellations or special deals with reputatable agents and outfitters.

Relatively speaking I do not see a big difference in cost of DG hunting different parts of Africa, when "all costs" are figured in the equation...but all I care about hunting, at this stage is Buff and you can take two in Tanzania on a 7 or 10 day license.

My only complaint about Tanzania...I would really like to take a Waterbuck...something about them I guess...and that is not doable on a 7-10 day deal...wish it was! a third Buff would also be nice!

quote:

My only complaint about Tanzania...I would really like to take a Waterbuck...something about them I guess...and that is not doable on a 7-10 day deal...wish it was! a third Buff would also be nice!

It is possible on a 10-day hunt. I do it for those who want a "more complete" Tanzania experience on a short Buffalo hunt.

You pay the government fees for a 14-day license and a bit more on daily rate, and you can hunt all the animals on a 14-day license. For example in Western Tanz, you can shoot:

2 Buffalo, Hartebeest, Warthog, Topi, Waterbuck, Reedbuck, Bushbuck, Baboon, Jackal, Hyena, Duiker and Crocodile.

So, it is possible on a 10-day hunt.

It's easy to make promises of trophy quality - but a reputable safari company will only make promises they can keep.

A good way to tell the difference between truth & BS is to ask for photographs of animals of the quality you have been promised and contact details of the clients who took those animals.

I don't know of any true wilderness area in any African country that can honestly boast of never taking a Buffalo trophy under 40 inches.