Cape Buff,
First let me clear up your sarcastic reprisal of my post questioning my reference to re: Blackpowder, I used the term to "refer" to all of the old black powder calibers as that is what they were in the beginning, therefore I would not have to name them all, but to satisfy your need I will set forth them as the 40-65, 45-70,45-90, a host of 50 calibers up to the 50-120, at which point the nature of the beast changes as the 50-140 just may almost qualify as a near legal Cape Buff caliber....

I refer to any of these old "blackpowder calibers" to be reckoned with for all practical purposes, in their smokeless form with today hottest loads....I hope this clears up your misunderstanding of the post that no one else misunderstood...

With a honicker like Cape Buffalo I would think that you would be better informed, but this is the internet and one can attach himself to any name he pleases without the slightest amount of knowledge to the subject at hand I suppose....

Since you are of the opine that the 45-70 is a fine and capable Buffalo caliber, then I suggest that you use it to hunt them with, with my blessing, but to recommend the caliber to someone that is less "experienced" as you incinuate that you are and surely must be, is highly irresponsible on your part or so it seems to me...

I have no doubt it will kill a Buffalo as I have been told on one incident wherein a child killed one with a 22 Hornet by shooting it in the ear while it sept..I have shot them with the 7x57, 8x57 with military ball, and could kill one with a 45-70 of course, but I do not think I could even come close to stoping a charge with such a mild caliber. Common since prevails on that of which IMO you sir are certainly lacking...

Yup! and there have been times when it woulda been nice to have some sand to pee in. Walex bashfull, uncomplicated shy and retiring Noth Pacific Fisherman.

Ray---you might as well save your breath, don't confuse people with the facts,they already have their mind made up!

I've told them 45-70 guys over and over that you need as minimun a 444Marlin for cape buff. They just won't listen!

Still trolling I see.

When will you turn 18?

Ray;

As usual you really sum up the argument. I,too, have wondered if some people have ever translated their arguments from paper to a real live Cape buffalo at say, 35 yards distance. (I recall an old joke from when the 600 Nitro was the largest commercially available cartridge and the old timer being asked why he carried it -"because I can't get anything bigger". The 7x57 Mauser has a deserved reputation for penetration I shot a 315 lb black bear at about 80 yards where the bullet smashed a shoulder,a largely intact bullet went into the lung, broke a rib on exit and buried itself in a mud bank. We retrieved about 60% of bullet weight of 154gr. My guide who had worried because I was carrying such a "light" caliber was dumbfounded. I told him that hunters in my US state {we were in Canada}regularly shot black bear with 30-30s and 35Rem. I have also read that a legendary PH used a 7x57 on lion. Good for him. Me, I would like to use a 50 cal.MG if I have to face a Cape buffalo at close quarters again. Just kidding, but you get the point. There is a lot of difference between measuring the performance of a cartridge on a rifle range and using the cartridge in the field-and yes, "penetration" tests are no comparison as one poster has pointed out acutely. (hydrostatic shock to tissue can't be measured in any event and I'm not sure that hydrostatic shock will put down a Cape buffalo anyway.I heard horror stories of nyati being hit repeatedly in tissue and refusing to either go down or to stay down. My PH urged me the night before our first day out- "Break bones". I'm glad I listened to him) Here's my argument (for what it's worth) against using the 45-70. It's a cartridge that has been around for over a century. I just can't believe that over the years the people who regularly faced DG in Africa just didn't know how "good" it was. I mean, somebody came up with these rules about "minimum calibers" and those people couldn't have been fools or ignorant about this cartridge. So a bunch of real experts concluded that the 375 H&H was the minimum cartridge for use on most DG in Africa - and, I, coming to Africa, should ignore them? I would prefer to go with the experts. ( If the 45-70 supporters are wrong when nyati comes galloping over to discuss with me why I shot at him, I doubt that they would come to my funeral!

Capebuff,

Just a friendly question, Have you ever shot a cape buffalo?

Thanks

Mike