>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6to3R4BFXeg ...

FRom what direction would you approach that downed Buff?

Once up close, at what point would you attempt to finish that initially downed Buff?

I'll give him his due, he stood his ground
and finished the job.

I'll comment on the rest later.

Granted, he stood his ground.

Took him 11 seconds from opening the action with spent cartridges....to having the action closed on two fresh rounds.{..rather slow dont ya think?}

Yes, He let the buffalo decide how he wanted to die.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6to3R4BFXeg ...

.....................

Old school MS

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:
Old school MS

Trax

I've looked at the video again.

He should have gone down with the charge, ass over tit,
picked up his double and dropped the Buffalo with a
Texas heart shot as it ran away.

Then back home for a drink, tea and medals


As for slow, no, he was just giving
the Buffalo a sporting chance !

Oh My! Here we go again.

I just received a nice email from Saeed about cold weather here in Alaska and a book, Mawson's Will. Now he's gonna call me an ass kisser again for my admiration of Mark. I'll work it out with my therapist.

This video clip showed a few things. First, it began Mark's career in stopping charges. Second, it showed the man can keep cool in the face of danger and possible death. Third it proved every hunter, writer, and combination thereof wrong when they stated the proper place to shoot a charging buffalo is between the eyes or in the nose. The other day I watched on old video (may have been The Macomber Affair) where the hunter suggested shoot for the nose. To add number four, note the muzzle rise on the .500 nitro rifle--it shows the facts of recoil of a big double has been stretched over the years. Muzzle rise is a few inches.

I think Mark is a right on gent and I'm working on a long article on his career to include his younger pre PH years.

Personally, to reply to the question, I would approach ANY downed animal from the rear (buffalo, bear, or plains game) and I probably would dispatch it as soon as possible as I don't have the man berries of MS. That said, I am working on a possible hunt with Mark in 2014 and maybe he can show me how to do it right!! (I just wrote this to piss off a few of the antis but no disrespect intended).

Cheers, gents. AR is getting more fun every day.
Cal

PS. I'm off to Zim and SA in a few days for a pair of buff and a hippo with my .600. Plains game, too. If any of you gents don't have my books on the .600 and the British bore rifles, you are missing a pair of good reads!

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:
As for slow, no, he was just giving
the Buffalo a sporting chance !

Well, I was just wondering why someone[a well versed PH] who uses a SxS design,supposedly for the advantage of its superior _'speed of fire,reload & fire'_ on close-in DG,
...takes 11 seconds from opening the action > to having the action closed on two fresh rounds [1.02 min - 1.13 min segment of video]
- all while a potentially dangerous BuFF is still just a few yards away.

After firing his last shot[2nd barrel], the PH then shortly retreats,..but then stops,turns and stands still facing the downed Buff.
From the point of first standing still & facing the downed buff just a few yards away,
..he then took 14 seconds to have his SxS closed on two fresh rounds.
[.59 min - 1.13 min. segment of the video]
Seems like an unecessarily hell of a long time, under those particular circumstances.


This client on DG ejects/clears a jammed BoltRifle and is rechambered about 1/3 time -that it took that PH to reload his SxS.... ...

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
I would approach ANY downed animal from the rear (buffalo, bear, or plains game) and I probably would dispatch it as soon as possible as I don't have the man berries of MS.

So he has the skill and guts to do it, but does that make it right?

The truth is: if he had done it the accepted way there would have been no charge. If there had been no charge few of us would know who MS is. The charges in those first few movies were the only interesting thing in the video. The videos were lackluster in every other aspect.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Oh My! Here we go again.

I just received a nice email from Saeed about cold weather here in Alaska and a book, Mawson's Will. Now he's gonna call me an ass kisser again for my admiration of Mark. I'll work it out with my therapist.

This video clip showed a few things. First, it began Mark's career in stopping charges. Second, it showed the man can keep cool in the face of danger and possible death. Third it proved every hunter, writer, and combination thereof wrong when they stated the proper place to shoot a charging buffalo is between the eyes or in the nose. The other day I watched on old video (may have been The Macomber Affair) where the hunter suggested shoot for the nose. To add number four, note the muzzle rise on the .500 nitro rifle--it shows the facts of recoil of a big double has been stretched over the years. Muzzle rise is a few inches.

I think Mark is a right on gent and I'm working on a long article on his career to include his younger pre PH years.

Personally, to reply to the question, I would approach ANY downed animal from the rear (buffalo, bear, or plains game) and I probably would dispatch it as soon as possible as I don't have the man berries of MS. That said, I am working on a possible hunt with Mark in 2014 and maybe he can show me how to do it right!! (I just wrote this to piss off a few of the antis but no disrespect intended).

Cheers, gents. AR is getting more fun every day.
Cal

PS. I'm off to Zim and SA in a few days for a pair of buff and a hippo with my .600. Plains game, too. If any of you gents don't have my books on the .600 and the British bore rifles, you are missing a pair of good reads!

....................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
I would approach ANY downed animal from the rear (buffalo, bear, or plains game) and I probably would dispatch it as soon as possible as I don't have the man berries of MS.

So he has the skill and guts to do it, but does that make it right?

The truth is: if he had done it the accepted way there would have been no charge. If there had been no charge few of us would know who MS is. The charges in those first few movies were the only interesting thing in the video. The videos were lackluster in every other aspect.

...................................................................

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cal pappas:
Oh My! Here we go again.

Just to repeat myself:
Here we go again.
Cheers to you all.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by cal pappas:
Oh My! Here we go again.

Just to repeat myself:
Here we go again.
Cheers to you all.
Cal

+1, Sometimes its better to go hunting than to be cynical about hunters.

When it comes to speed of bolt & double, I can say that I would have preferred my double for my last two Buffalo.

When you have clients who are incapable of killing their own animals.

This is what happens

Remember what I said in my message Cal?

Trax:

quote:

FRom what direction would you approach that downed Buff?
From its blind side

Once up close, at what point would you attempt to finish that initially downed Buff?

At the first opportunity of a clear shot at a vital area

Your post further down regarding the delay in reloading: blame it on the shooter - I must admit he was acting as though he was on a quail shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

...................................................................

Which part of my reply do you disagree with? As far as I am concerned there is very little there that anyone can fault.

Come on, guys. As soon as he gets to the animal and it shows signs of life he should put a couple in the CNS. This is about ending suffering, not a PH’s nut acreage.

Enough people who actually know him say what a great guy MS is so I assume he is exactly that. But by most accepted standards of behaviour he hunts like a prat.

Best just to actually go hunting buffalo, than sitting here moaning about how it should or should not be done. I couldn't find any on the weekend, and we busted the radiator on a termite mound. Not to worry. Hopefully next time, eh. Good luck, fellows!

quote:

Originally posted by BenKK:
Best just to actually go hunting buffalo, than sitting here moaning about how it should or should not be done. I couldn't find any on the weekend, and we busted the radiator on a termite mound. Not to worry. Hopefully next time, eh. Good luck, fellows!

Amen.

Apologise for my flippant posts before.

For me, as Milo said, as soon as it showed signs of life,
bang, CNS hit. I might even have put one into the CNS
before that in some cases.

What others do is what they decide to do.

That says alot about having a double!

That video clip is I believe 20 yrs old. For in close and life saving shooting MS is cool under fire and 'makes the shot'.

Mike

Footage was a little grainy . . . was that a banteng?

Old School MS. I believe this was the video where he "figured it out". People want drama and action in their videos.

I believe we may have discussed the ethics behind this? Maybe once or twice, so I'll leave it at that.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Footage was a little grainy . . . was that a banteng?

Now, now.

Once again like the water buffalo video it is a real hunting scenario. I don't think Mark was all that slow reloading considering he had his ammo in his coat pocket. If there was some error it was not shooting the buffalo when it first raised its head. He approached the buffalo from the back and had a perfect opportunity to end the affair before the buffalo got up.

As for the client not being able to kill his own game if I remember right the client had a severe heart condition and one prosthetic hand. They may also of had some type of rifle rest attached to the truck because he couldn't hold his rifle. I think the client did a heck of job considering all that.

Mark

I don't fault the clip . . . so if you shoot an animal and it runs off, and you wait a few minutes or half an hour before even going to look for it, just because you don't see it still alive no problem and all is fine . . . riiiggghhht. That don't pass my common sense test. What if he puts two in it while it's on the ground, and then it gets up . . . bet he'd reload just a tad faster

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

...................................................................

Which part of my reply do you disagree with? As far as I am concerned there is very little there that anyone can fault.

Jbrown, any answer to this thread is feeding a troll, no matter how you answer it will be nit picked it to death!

Again

As I recall, this is the first time I have ever commented here on AR regarding MS.

First, I would suggest to Trax to post his videos of his exploits so that we may all critique his techniques of shot selection, follow up shots, approach angles, and we can never forget, maturity of the animal. Post those so we can further cannibalize one another some more.

In March, I dicussed the MS controversy very briefly with CB due to the rants here on AR. My impression is that CB highly regards MS, but simply doesn't want to utilize the same tactics as MS. That's personal preference and maybe a higher regard for personal safety.

However, both CB and I agreed that MS is one of the finest shots with a double rifle alive today. I believe from the videos I've seen (I don't know MS) that he can stand calm in the face of danger better than anyone else I've seen.

We can debate hunting ethics forever, and we will always find areas of disagreement. Hell, I find it completely bizarre that someone would specifically hunt whitetail with a .223, but I will no longer criticize those that do successfully, as we are all hunters.

I have absolutely no hero-worship for either CB or MS, but I would gladly hunt with either one. I am sure I can learn a lot from both.

Most of us do the best we can out there in the hunting fields. Some are more experienced than others. Can we please stop criticizing one another for what one feels to be something important for them. It's easy to be a Monday quarterback, or a computer-based hunting critic.

There are always a few who intentionally stir up controversy, probably out of boredom. Those of you who are guilty, please, inspire me by teaching me something valuable and insightful.

I didn't even notice it was M in the video !


Of the last two shots at the charging buff,
where did his first shot go ?

Did he shoot over the top of it's back ?

The Buffalo didn't seem to react at all.

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:
I didn't even notice it was M in the video !


Of the last two shots at the charging buff,
where did his first shot go ?

Did he shoot over the top of it's back ?

The Buffalo didn't seem to react at all.

I believe Mark said the first shot went into the muzzle of the buff, and the second into the brain.

Amazing, from what I can see,
the buff didn't even react.

I know a Water Buffalo jaw can stop
a 570 RN SN out of a 500 Nitro
at 8 - 10 feet.

Stopped it dead in it's tracks
on the second jaw bone.

The hunter who shot that Buffalo was severely handicapped so considering, he made a pretty good shot I think. As some of you alluded, this was early Mark Sullivan and he admits he learned from that mistake by cutting it so close. He was shooting an Army & Navy (I think) 450/400. I'll add this, those of you who know me know my background and I have been in similar "high pucker" situations during my thirty year career in Naval Aviation and when the chips are down, I know I would feel extremely comfortable with him checking my "six". Have at it...

I am NOT a MS basher at all and I have allot of respect for his ball, but come on of course he provoked a charge for the camera! He allowed it to turn it's head and get on it's feet when he should have been shooting as soon as it twitched. He also got closer than he should have before he shot.

I have no problem with MS shooting his clients game either...hey it's their dime and their Safari.

I don't even have a problem with MS shooting a buffalo for the camera, but don't try to convince the rest of us that it was an honest charge.

Just my 2 cents.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Leopardtrack:
I am NOT a MS basher at all and I have allot of respect for his ball, but come on of course he provoked a charge for the camera! He allowed it to turn it's head and get on it's feet when he should have been shooting as soon as it twitched. He also got closer than he should have before he shot.

I have no problem with MS shooting his clients game either...hey it's their dime and their Safari.

I don't even have a problem with MS shooting a buffalo for the camera, but don't try to convince the rest of us that it was an honest charge.


Hmmm ... Something tells me that if he fails to stop that "dis-honest" charge, he will still honestly get "freight trained"!

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
Come on, guys. As soon as he gets to the animal and it shows signs of life he should put a couple in the CNS. This is about ending suffering, not a PH’s nut acreage.

Enough people who actually know him say what a great guy MS is so I assume he is exactly that. But by most accepted standards of behaviour he hunts like a prat.

Bravo sir, a spark of insight in a sea of testosterone.

quote:

He was shooting an Army & Navy (I think) 450/400

Jorge.

That is a .500 NE. Mark says so towards the end of the clip.

The client did a good job despite his condition, I do believe he could have dropped the bull the second he raised his head but then again that charge is what sparked his DG filming career and I must admit he did a good job stopping it (even though it was kind of unnecessary) remarkably and he was the only one at risk. He does hunts in its own polemic style and it is true most Phs would have either waited at a safe distance for the buffalo to below or asked his client for insurance rounds on the downed bull. I will just add how impressive that the seriously injured buffalo has enough heart to stand up and charge even when death is sure for him. I believe the rifle Mark used is his John Wilkes .500 NE, at that time he had not swtiched for a .577 or a .600.