I haven't shot any buff but I been up close and personal with some wounded bears.

As soon as I see them moving I shoot them. I been know to shoot them before they move.

Ammo is cheap stiches are not.

Personally I don't believe in giving any dangerous animal the chance once he been hit.

TO be honest, I did not know the PH was a young MS when I started the thread.

I do give MS due credit- purely for his fast close-in shooting abilities.

BUt his whole approach of intentionally 'instigating close in charges' basically goes against a PHs responsibilities & professional ethics.

As I understand it, a PH should be doing his best to despatch a clients wounded animal in a manner that;
- minimises/does not prolong suffering for the animal.
- mimimises any threat of risk/danger to the hunting party.

...and taking 14 seconds to reload ones SxS while a just recently charging Buff sits only a couple yds away,
is really slack-ass for ANY PH.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
TO be honest, I did not know the PH was a young MS when I started the thread.

I'm glad I'm not the only one, as said by me above.

Hmmm ... Something tells me that if he fails to stop that "dis-honest" charge, he will still honestly get "freight trained"! [/QUOTE]

Hey Todd,
Bad choice of words on my part I guess. You are correct that it was an honest charge in the sense that the buff WAS honestly trying to kill MS but I guess what I am trying to say is that MS induced that charge and was ready for it, as opposed to one of several PH's (Owain Wilson?) who were KILLED this year by ambush by a wounded buffalo when the PH wasn't ready or expecting it.

I think that it brings a bit of disrespect to the memory of those fallen PH's to call MS's antics in that video a "charge" in the same sense.

I hope that my thoughts are clearer now.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
TO be honest, I did not know the PH was a young MS when I started the thread.

I do give MS due credit- purely for his fast close-in shooting abilities.

BUt his whole approach of intentionally 'instigating close in charges' basically goes against a PHs responsibilities & professional ethics.

As I understand it, a PH should be doing his best to despatch a clients wounded animal in a manner that;
- minimises/does not prolong suffering for the animal.
- mimimises any threat of risk/danger to the hunting party.

...and taking 14 seconds to reload ones SxS while a just recently charging Buff sits only a couple yds away,
is really slack-ass for ANY PH.

I call Bu-l-Sh-t. You knew exactly who was the PH in the video, and you posted it just to stir up the type of crap you like to stir up. There is absoulutely no trust in your tactics, and I don't understand why you choose to use such ruthless tactics against our fellow hunters.

I find you to be the enemy. Prove me otherwise, and I will reverse my statement. Every time you post, it is in destruction of another hunter. Have you no honor amongst those of us who try to do the right things and further our hunting heritage?

quote:

Originally posted by Leopardtrack:
Hmmm ... Something tells me that if he fails to stop that "dis-honest" charge, he will still honestly get "freight trained"!

Hey Todd,
Bad choice of words on my part I guess. You are correct that it was an honest charge in the sense that the buff WAS honestly trying to kill MS but I guess what I am trying to say is that MS induced that charge and was ready for it, as opposed to one of several PH's (Owain Wilson?) who were KILLED this year by ambush by a wounded buffalo when the PH wasn't ready or expecting it.

I think that it brings a bit of disrespect to the memory of those fallen PH's to call MS's antics in that video a "charge" in the same sense.

I hope that my thoughts are clearer now.[/QUOTE]

Your thought are crystal clear.

There is an awful lot of differencfe between walking up to a buffalo in the open, than one hiding in thick bush.

One is called trying to finish a wounded buffalo, and the other is called Hollywood style grandstanding.

Just as if one is creaming "LOOK HOW BRAVE I AM!"

Comparing an honest PHs actions to this clown is just plain wrong!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Hmmm ... Something tells me that if he fails to stop that "dis-honest" charge, he will still honestly get "freight trained"!

quote:

Hey Todd,
Bad choice of words on my part I guess. You are correct that it was an honest charge in the sense that the buff WAS honestly trying to kill MS but I guess what I am trying to say is that MS induced that charge and was ready for it, as opposed to one of several PH's (Owain Wilson?) who were KILLED this year by ambush by a wounded buffalo when the PH wasn't ready or expecting it.

I think that it brings a bit of disrespect to the memory of those fallen PH's to call MS's antics in that video a "charge" in the same sense.

I hope that my thoughts are clearer now.

Actually, I was just yanking your chain a bit with some humor. But I certainly wasn't making light of the guys who suffered injury or death recently.

From my perspective, even a charge that is expected, as in Mark's videos, takes a certain amount of guts, or more accurately, a certain mindset, to stand there and deliver knowing that the slightest mistake is likely to spell disaster. A misfire, or if the animal jerks it's head slightly just prior to the shot, or any number of things, can result in a failed stop at ultra close range. I know there are guys here who claim that standing perfectly still and firing at close range on an expected charge is "no big deal". I'm not so sure about that however.

On my buffalo hunt from last October that I posted a video of here, I was using a 577NE. I had hit the bull a little far back on the first shot due to misjudging the angle he was standing. This resulted in taking out only one lung and him getting his adrenaline up. He ran us around the thick jesse for a little over an hour in ever tightening circles. I distinctively remember thinking, even with the 577 in hand, that should he charge us, I would need to handle it just right by waiting for the proper range and situation to shoot instead of just beginning to blast away from whatever range. Blasting away would be the natural, but entirely wrong reaction. It takes pre-thinking the situation through to bide your time for the best effect, knowing that last minute shot is all or nothing. Yeah, easy to pass it off now, here at home, behind the computer keyboard but I distinctly remember thinking about it differently in the jesse and on the blood trail, even while expecting trouble.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Leopardtrack:
Hmmm ... Something tells me that if he fails to stop that "dis-honest" charge, he will still honestly get "freight trained"!

Hey Todd,
Bad choice of words on my part I guess. You are correct that it was an honest charge in the sense that the buff WAS honestly trying to kill MS but I guess what I am trying to say is that MS induced that charge and was ready for it, as opposed to one of several PH's (Owain Wilson?) who were KILLED this year by ambush by a wounded buffalo when the PH wasn't ready or expecting it.

I think that it brings a bit of disrespect to the memory of those fallen PH's to call MS's antics in that video a "charge" in the same sense.

I hope that my thoughts are clearer now.

Your thought are crystal clear.

There is an awful lot of differencfe between walking up to a buffalo in the open, than one hiding in thick bush.

One is called trying to finish a wounded buffalo, and the other is called Hollywood style grandstanding.

Just as if one is creaming "LOOK HOW BRAVE I AM!"

Comparing an honest PHs actions to this clown is just plain wrong![/QUOTE]

I can't believe that we have respected members saying that it is a legit charge because the buffalo is intent on causing damage. MS had the cards stacked in his favor in EVERY way possible.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Leopardtrack:
Hmmm ... Something tells me that if he fails to stop that "dis-honest" charge, he will still honestly get "freight trained"!

Hey Todd,
Bad choice of words on my part I guess. You are correct that it was an honest charge in the sense that the buff WAS honestly trying to kill MS but I guess what I am trying to say is that MS induced that charge and was ready for it, as opposed to one of several PH's (Owain Wilson?) who were KILLED this year by ambush by a wounded buffalo when the PH wasn't ready or expecting it.

I think that it brings a bit of disrespect to the memory of those fallen PH's to call MS's antics in that video a "charge" in the same sense.

I hope that my thoughts are clearer now.

Your thought are crystal clear.

There is an awful lot of differencfe between walking up to a buffalo in the open, than one hiding in thick bush.

One is called trying to finish a wounded buffalo, and the other is called Hollywood style grandstanding.

Just as if one is creaming "LOOK HOW BRAVE I AM!"

Comparing an honest PHs actions to this clown is just plain wrong!

I can't believe that we have respected members saying that it is a legit charge because the buffalo is intent on causing damage. MS had the cards stacked in his favor in EVERY way possible.[/QUOTE]

"Legit" charge or not. Odds stacked in Mark's favor or not. A misfire or malfunction of any kind, or a slightly misplaced bullet, WILL result in Sullivan being hit by the buffalo with disastrous results. Again, it's really easy to say otherwise from home, behind a keyboard. I just know that from my experience, every time I've been on the trail of an animal that I just shot, and not knowing for sure if we'll find him down or not, I was not nearly as tall and bullet proof then as I am now typing this. I've not had to handle a buffalo charge to date, but I know I never took the follow up's lightly when actually in the field. Regardless of opinions on whether or not walking up to a wounded buff to incite a charge is ethical or not, that scenario does have the possibility of going wrong.

For example, I've told this story previously but in 06, while buffalo hunting, I had a bull walk across an opening at about 30 yards. I placed the sights on his shoulder and pulled the trigger. Nothing happened. The trigger was disconnected and just floating in the trigger guard assembly. This on my CZ 416 Rigby. Less than 24 hours earlier, I had just used that very rifle to kill a hippo on land. The very next time I loaded it and attempted to shoot it was this incident with the buff. Imagine for a second that the trigger failure had been offset by one round. In other words, the rifle had fired at the buff's shoulder, then on follow up, upon attempting to stop a charge, even if an expected charge ala Mark Sullivan, the trigger then disconnected. I would have been flattened. Of course this is one of the reasons I'm such a staunch double rifle supporter for DG now days. But the point is that anytime a buff is attempting to press home a charge at close range, even if you are expecting it, Mr. Murphy can pay you a visit at anytime, and if he does so at the wrong time, there can be hell to pay.

...another vote for a MS forum!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mdstewart:

I call Bu-l-Sh-t. You knew exactly who was the PH in the video,...

and for all we know CB could have had good reason to suspect the Banteng hunt was not legal from the start.

Have you no honor amongst those of us who try to do the right things and further our hunting heritage?

and the high profile name Boddington being embroiled in an illegal hunt accusation is good for huntings heritage?
[a Boddington did shoot a Banteng on the hunt in question, its just a question of whether it was legal or not]

Apparently You dont like people making those allegations/accusations,...yet you accuse me of knowing its was a M.Sullivan of 20yrs ago!

If I had a choice of being accused of an 'illegal hunt' or 'knowing it was MS of 20yrs ago'
..I prefer the trivial later accusation.

the interesting difference between Boddington & Sullivan;

is that in the case of Boddington, some prefer to blame the PH for any impropriety that may have taken place,
Yet when a PH like MS unecessarily prolongs an animals suffering & unnecessarily puts the hunting party at greater risk,
we are scolded for blaming the PH.

Why are some so accepting & defensive of Sullivans professional & ethical impropriety?
What does Craig Boddington actually respect him for?

Why would anyone respect someone who as a PH dangerously clowns around just in order to grandstand oneself?