Yeah Bill, I agree with you. All those things and more have happened in the past and I'm sure similar things will happen in the future.

Ah well, we ain't ever gonna change it!

I will probably get some flack for this.

I would put most of the blame on this holy grail of MINE IS BIGGER than yours on our own orgenization - SCI!

They glorified this.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I will probably get some flack for this.

I would put most of the blame on this holy grail of MINE IS BIGGER than yours on our own orgenization - SCI!

They glorified this.

Not from me. I think you're dead right!

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:
Steve/Johan:
... Or rushing to Africa to execute a particular farm-raised buffalo or white rhino bought after seeing photos of the live animal at a hunting convention?
Bill Quimby

Bill



This guy was for sale last year ... complete with measurements, pedigree - the works! Maybe he was bought by another buffalo farmer, but you'll probably never know.

Saeed

As long as there is an approved method for measuring flack ...

Wendell, I hate to agree with you but Well Said.
I do think it makes. a whole lot of difference in your choices if you have been over the pond a number of times. My trophies are my memories of the hunt. I liked your buff and nothing to be ashamed of there. I have a lesser kudu. When someone comes over that know what a lesser kudu should look like. I call him my "much Lesser Kudu"
PH said shoot, I shot, If I could put that one back I would.

Johan, Saeed, Bill, Shakari

GL - excellent topic

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:
I measure my trophies with memories, not tape measures. If someone feels my trophies don't meet his standards, then that's his problem.

Bill Quimby

+1

When someone asks me what a particular "trophy" of mine scores, I tell them the truth -- I have no damn idea because I don't give a rat's ass. Although I have a few critters that folks have told me that would make "the book," I have NEVER put a tape on any them for the purpose of scoring them. About the only measurements I ever do is to count points or maybe measure the spread or lenghts.

To me, a "mature" trophy is one that is a representative head for the species, not one that makes one of the ego-boosting record books.

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:
I measure my trophies with memories, not tape measures. If someone feels my trophies don't meet his standards, then that's his problem.

Bill Quimby

This thread seems to have transformed from a very tough topic - a discussion of the propriety of killing immature game animals - to an easy one - criticism of "book" hunters and cheaters.

Neither this thread nor mine on this forum on the same subject (which obviously comes from a different perspective) is fundamentally about "inches" or variations in "trophy" quality among specimens of mature animals.

They are fundamentally about the killing of immature vs. mature animals.

I thank you GL for bringing up the same topic I did from a different and very personal perspective. I don't think your post is a rant at all. It is very thoughtful and thought provoking - at least I can say that it has made me think.

I don't agree with you on many points, but I do agree with you on others, and in any case I certainly respect your viewpoint.

Well-said gentlemen, on both sides of this discussion! However, I think one factor has been overlooked here in the reasoning of taking trophies that seem to get larger as we grow older in our hunting experience! This is as natural as it is for anything in life! Take, for instance, another basic human instinct "sex"! The first few yrs almost any quality is jumped no readily. As we become older in age, or experience we become jaded at some point, and it takes ever more quality to get our urges up to a point that we become interested.

Hunting is no different, as it is also a human instinct, and when new to the game all hunting excites us, and it seems quantity is the trophy, while as we grow older, we seem to pass anything that isn't immediately exciting, waiting for the panicle, causes our juices to flow quickly. This has nothing to do with conservation, or record books but has only to do with our ego, and/or our boredom with the mediocre. Just hunting the animal has lost it's shine, and it comes down to finding the treasure among the average. That, again, has nothing to do with the animal but has everything to do with our PERSONAL CHOICE, EGO!

IMO, the most successful life of a hunter is to hunt, with the excitement of the hunt in mind, and leave the tape measure at home. Anyone who has been around Cape buffalo long will not need someone else to tell him if the animal in front of him is what he wants. When young, the excitement is being close to an animal that can, at will, re-arrange your anatomy, if you do not do your part properly. In the middle of you experience life with the buffalo; the danger excitement is enhanced by the quality of target, along with the stalk and the anticipation of what may happen at the end of that stalk. Then comes old age, like me! This phase of your hunting life is the best, because you quite caring what others think, and satisfy yourself. The trophy becomes a trophy because of many different things, none of which have anything to do with the age, or breading status of the animal you are about to shoot. They are how hard he was to get close to, how defiant he was when you did, and how close he got before you put him down. If he has a little skin between his bosses, has absolutely nothing to do with it. The know-it-all, who believes skin between the bosses always means the animal is immature, is simply not well informed. I have shot, and seen shot several that were as old as the hills but had fairly wide separations between the bosses. The more hair that is on that skin is some indication but not the skin's width between the bosses.

In all the responses that are staunchly PRO TROPHY BOOK criteria, notice all the sentences will have the word "I" in the first three words! That says volumes!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Take, for instance, another basic human instinct "sex"! The first few yrs almost any quality is jumped no readily. As we become older in age, or experience we become jaded at some point, and it takes ever more quality to get our urges up to a point that we become interested.

Speak for yourself on that one pal!

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Take, for instance, another basic human instinct "sex"! The first few yrs almost any quality is jumped no readily. As we become older in age, or experience we become jaded at some point, and it takes ever more quality to get our urges up to a point that we become interested.

Speak for yourself on that one pal!

Arizona, you just haven't gotten old enough to go through all the phases yet!

Fully agree with Krause, all these mature/ immature posts is starting to be a pain in the butt. And this passing up a 69" Kudu bull because the horns don't tip out what bull shoot who can afford to go to Africa every year??

Strange how these posts are mostly started by outfitters, me thinks they just want to show off and are looking for a couple more hunts to fill their season.