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I just had the misfortune to see some woman shoot a lioness out of a tree with a crossbow on Safari Hunters Journal. The woman "chased" the the lion around all afternoon until like they were stalking the thing. They even pulled a tree branch behind a vehicle to "find" the tracks of the cat. I wonder why they just didn't just throw out some Purina Kitty Chow. The woman was disgusting after she shot the lion in the tree. She kept on saying "Don't shoot it!" to the "P.H." for some reason. She wanted the lion to be all hers, I guess or better yet, not to ruin the illusion that a hunt was really taking place. Vomit. I wonder who the hell the producer thought he was fooling. After puking, I wrote Excalibur Crossbows (the sponsor) and begged them not to do that crap again. If you see it and agree with me, here is Excalibur's contact info: Toll Free: 800-463-1817 Phone: 519-743-6890 Fax: 519-743-6964 Email: Customer Service: service@excaliburcrossbow.com JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | ||
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Concur and email sent. The only thing I shoot out of trees are squirrels anyway...jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Let me guess .... South Africa? | |||
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Jorge: I'd shoot a wild-assed Zim leopard out of a tree in an Orange Park minute, but this episode of Safari Hunters Journal was more like shooting someones house cat (which isn't always a bad idea, come to think of it  ).After seeing this tripe, it makes me realize that Tracks Across Africa and Boddington should be again complimented on the hard work they do to show, pretty darn well, the real African experience. I know it cost them lots of money to produce Tracks (instead of just buying a canned lion), but the effort pays off in an enjoyable and informative view instead of an execution. JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | |||
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Yep, Wendell. But the indictment isn't RSA, it is against the folks who attempt to pass off following around a released lioness as real hunting. I love to go to South Africa and hunt plains game, particularly with folks on their first safari. On a big enough ranch, the experience is just fine. As someone said, I doubt that the animals worry much about being "contained" on 15,000 hectares, but damn! The episode showed this morning was just poor. I knew I should have gone to Sunday School... I wouldn't have see the crap. JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | |||
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I believe she is the wife of the owner of Excalibur Crossbows. Her constantly saying don't shoot was her way of showing that Excalibur Crossbows are so deadly that a back-up shot isn't needed. The hunt sucked, she was annoying and Safari Hunter's Jounrnal is usually a better show than that. | |||
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She is indeed co-owner of Excalibur an as such has hunted world wide with her husband using a crossbow. It was a poor portrayal of a lion hunt indeed though I saw nowhere in the showing that the producer was trying to portray a free range hunt. My problem is not with shooting a lion out of a tree as I have killed all sorts of free range game after being treeded by hounds, squirrels, racoons, puma, black bears come quickly to mind as do hogs and rabbits on the ground. Nor do I have a problem shooting lion in an enclosure if done under sporting enough conditions. Those conditions if legal are mine alone to decide acceptable or not.I personally see little difference in killing a buff inside wire or lion (neither of which I've done to this point). Later this spring while in south Africa I have such a hunt on the slate. I will be hunting PG in Namibia and RSA the ranch in RSA offers lion as well and I have discussed with the owner my interest. I will decide upon seeing the setup if I wish to go thru with the lion or not. I'll post a picture of him here on AR if I do. Do I give a red rat's ass what some web poster whom has never hunter lion in any venue thinks of it.....you be the judge. | |||
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Have not seen the TV show, but a lioness hiding in a tree - must be under extreme stress! Poor thing, being harassed by humans, with no pride members, and particularly no pride male, to turn to for protection, and then attempt to get away by climbing a tree!
Thanks JudgeG for accurately placing the blame where due: Not "South Africa", but certain individuals, and companies. So continue placing the blame where due; amongst other the sponsors of such shows that show TV of what is judged to be a canned hunt. Follow the suggestion and send them an e-mailbomb of discontent with the show. Part, and IMHO a large part, of the blame should be placed at the doors of all the Hunting Outfitters who from pure financial greed considerations in some manner or other take part and promote canned lion hunting that is somehow masquerading as an ethical hunt. Don't book any hunt with them and "name & shame" them! But let me get out of ranting mode and enjoy reading some other informative posts. In good hunting. Andrew McLaren | |||
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A case where one almost wishes the tables were turned! Yes, and well said Judge - it is not South Africa in general, but certain individuals in South Africa. Similar to it not being Zimbabweans in general who have trashed Zim, but certain individuals... Dave | |||
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2th Doc: The name of the show is "Safari Hunters Journal". To each his own, but "hunter", at least in this particular episode, the lady was not! To portray her as such is just plain dishonest and unfair to those who watch and know no better. It is even worse a slap in the face to folks like Andrew who try their darn best to give folks a real African experience in RSA. More power to you RSA P.H.'s. Hang in there and I hope you don't mind my calling a spade, a spade, so to speak. You've got a great country and some wonderful and unique hunting opportunities, but damn the guy who set up that abortion. JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | |||
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It is incredible what rubbish they will show without thinking what dammage it might cause to the rest of the hunting nworld. Did anyone watch Global Pursuits on the Versus channel, now that was a show that did a whole lotta good for hunting. | |||
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I was going to post when this originally aired, just trying to figure out why a lioness would tree like that. Steve Scott posts here from time to time. Maybe he can explain it. ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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I watched and read as a kid,but now I do instead  .But seriously,when animals are not free in their natural habitat,and my hunting money does not go to wildlife conservation purposes,then it's a sad thing. | |||
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I saw the show as well. I am not a bow hunter and have lots of respect for those that do, however I am told some of these so called bow hunting ranches have lets say 4 water holes. Just before the hunter arrives they turn the 3 of the pumps off. Every animal has to come to the water hole where the hunter sit and waits. Not sure if that happened when she shot the eland or the kudu. I too find it disgusting to see a lion shoot. Much like the perserve bird shoots. This is not hunting. NRA LIFE MEMBER DU DIAMOND SPONSOR IN PERPETUITY DALLAS SAFARI CLUB LIFE MEMBER SCI FOUNDATION MEMBER | |||
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This was a publicity stunt for excalibur crossbows and was nothing else. It is a shame and a detriment to all hunting as far as I am concerned. Those who say hunters should not deride other hunters because it hurts us all; in my opinion this type of crap hurts us way more to the non-hunting majority. I also happen to think that most hunting shows do not belong on television because the experience and situation are so esoteric that it is not transferable to the viewer via a half hour television show and the shows are more likely used against hunters when shown to a non-hunting group. Any show that shows elephant being shot fit into this category. To most (even hunting sympathetic) people, watching a huge and majestic bull elephant drop to his knees or worse need a second shot while thrashing in the bush is not something one can watch and be sympathetic towards without a great deal of understanding of the entire process and knowing the situation on the ground in areas where elephant are hunted. It is hard to convey the work that goes into an elephant hunt when all that is shown is a bit of walking, talking, perhaps a short stalk and a kill. As hunters, we enjoy watching the experiences of others because we can remember our own hunts or perhaps live vicariously through the other hunter, but at the same time, leave ourselves wide open and even provide the fuel for attack. | |||
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Talk about hitting the nail dead center. I couldn't agree with you more. | |||
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JudgeG made a good point "....to each his own..." Alas this is not old east Africa nor is there much of old east Africa left today at all 'cept in memories or yellowing pages most of Africa is fenced. Rather this is 2009 where someone living in Texas whom regularly snipes genetically altered mega bucks from a box blind may look down upon someone doing the same across an ocean. I cannot help but wonder just how many with no possible future of taking a free range lion, due to the cost of it let their self pitty attempt to slander those whom have chose to take a capitve bred lion. To me a captive bred lion is no different than a captive kudu or anyother animal whom sole purpose for being born was to sold to someone. | |||
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Yes, but have you never watched the lion king? Seriously though, you are 100% - there is no difference between a lion and any other animal. The question is: why can't pumba enjoy the same standing amongst concrete jungle inhabitants as mustafa? | |||
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What about all of Tanzania? and it looks like Uganda will also soon be opened to hunting! As for most of Africa being fenced, what about the aforementioned east African countries plus Mozambique and most of Zimbabwe, Zambia and Namibia etc?
The difference is that the lions are captive bred in a pen and the kudu and other game are not. They breed in extremely large areas, sure they're fenced, but those fences certainly couldn't be construed as pens. | |||
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Ooops, I misspoke. Of COURSE I'd shoot a leopard off a tree! What I was trying to so clumsily convey was the practice of CHASING CATS up a tree THEN shooting them. Not something that I would want to do (unless it's the CATS that I see just posted here  ), but I'm ok with it if other folks choose to do so. jorgeUSN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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I haven't seen this show. But that reminds me of a other american hunting show i saw (hunting with the judge). A guy named Gracalone hunted lion with tamsafaris. What a shame. | |||
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Hunted might not be the most accurate phrase to use........ perhaps shot might be a more accurate and polite term.  | |||
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i saw that show too, it wasn't just the lion that make me sick. the whole show stunk. shows just what people do to feed their egos | |||
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Another interesting part of the show was when she shoots the eland. She immediately starts making excuses for the arrow not penetrating all the way through, as if it was supposed to on a bull eland. | |||
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The difference is that the lions are captive bred in a pen and the kudu and other game are not. They breed in extremely large areas, sure they're fenced, but those fences certainly couldn't be construed as pens.[/QUOTE] Then I assume you've had the pleasure of not seeing first hand what deer and elk breeding pens in so much of the world look like. For this I envy you. Doc | |||
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2thDoc, You'd be right, I know nothing about US hunting and freely admit it, but I have a great deal of experience of hunting in Africa, and as this is the African hunting forum and your comments were about lions and kudu etc in Africa, my comments were directed to that. | |||
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I saw the show as well and frankly loathed it. My wife who doesn't hunt but watches the shows and is supportive of my efforts immediately recognized that the hunt was bogus and she didn't like it at all. Too bad because I believe crossbows are legitimate hunting tools. Never worry about theory as long as the machinery does what it's supposed to do. | |||
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I haven't seen the video, but seems a bit strange to be going after a lone lioness, not the most common situation I would have thought, unless she moved out of the pride to have cubs if she were pregnant, but it is not unheard of to encounter lone females from time to time. However, to actually tree the animal, that sounds a bit odd to me, lion are not really arboreal, and does sound a bit artificial, and that certainly rings alarm bells. It definately hints towards a stressed and confused animal. I just don't see an un-habituated lioness climbing up a tree on it's home turf to escape some humans on it's trail, a leopard maybe, but a lion? I am not saying that this was a canned hunt, but from what I have read this could easily have been a candidate for one. If she happened to be a lone, completely wild lioness with young cubs, I bet she would not have been climbing trees when approached... | |||
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I believe that bow/crossbow hunting is a totally legitmate form of hunting but too often these stunt hunts come with the caveat of "dont back me up...I HAVE to prove that my excalibur (or what ever) is up to the task..." Egoism and product endorsement before hunting norms, not my scene to say the least... | |||
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 Here's a lioness in the Serengeti chillin in a tree. Not saying it's common, just that it does happen. Haven't seen the show yet but seems like SHJ has been going down hill somewhat lately. I don't enjoy watching bowhunting TV shows for the reasons stated by someone already. Sitting at a waterhole is not my cup of tea no matter what you are using for a weapon. If that's your bag, then have at it. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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I think that if a video of a hunt makes other real hunters cringe and complain, then there is probably something wrong, and certainly does not help with advertising or popularity to sport hunting. I know each to their own, but am afraid that I get a bit peeved with canned lion hunting. Everyone has their own set of ethics, it becomes a bit grey as to what is ethical or not, for instance calling/luring wild lions outside of national parks by using hyena feeding or wildebeest calf distress calls or whatever seems unethical to me, but may be acceptable to others. However the idea of canned hunting in its purest form is just totally unnacceptable to me. Unfortunately if there was not a demand for it, it would not exist. | |||
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I agree, she would more likely have done something like this. Thatwould have been interesting, with the crossbow and all!     | |||
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David, judging by the photo evidence it seems you were an uninvited guest to that tea-party! There appears to be some dissapproval... | |||
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Actually it looks as though she's trying to shoo you away, "Hey... Hey...!" If you notice her tail in the last pic, she's doing the old Ivan Carter trick of hoisting something above her head... | |||
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That's exactly what she was trying to do and she didn't have to try for long - we shooed and fast! She actually charged (bluffed)twice, stopping just before us each time. That was the invisible boundary - come no closer she was saying. She didn't have to say it a third time! Here is a link to some more of the sequence... http://forums.accuratereloadin...=197102927#197102927 Sorry Judge, not trying to hijack your thread. Let's get back to condemning the crossbow lady! Dave | |||
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Don't anyone get uptight about my statement. When this type of crap happens it is almost exclusively in SA. But hey, I am a part time hunting outfitter in Texas, and I know some pretty ridiculous stuff happens here too. That doesn't mean I participate or condone it, just like it doesn't mean if you are South African you participate or condone this kind of activity in your country. Just to be clear, it is not a criticism of South African hunting operators, just a criticism of the activity that occasionally happens there. And Judge, some more Sunday school might help us all! | |||
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there is a big difference between captive predator and captive prey species. one is used to being hunted and therefore genetically programed to flee- the other one, well you figure it out. if you seriously think hunting a pen raised lion is real hunting, good for you. i happen to believe that a lioness hunt in RSA where the animal trees just says canned, especially given the circumstances of this hunt. but it is obviously legal and different strokes for different folks. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Thank you for the post. I agree and filed greivance. | |||
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Personally I dont like shooting any animal out of a tree when it's been chased up the tree and surrounded by dogs. I don't care how tough it is to run 10,000 miles after it. If thats your claim to fame then take up cross country running and more power to you. I will probably never shoot a mtn. lion for this very reason, but thats ok. | |||
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Yep you should have gone to Sunday School instead of sitting home and watch that dribble on TV and thinking those "sinful" thoughts  Global Sportsmen Outfitters, LLC Bob Cunningham 404-802-2500  | |||
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