Roger,

I am going to gracefull state that I did my day in the barrel, along with Rusty and Jeff....



I am more than happy to buy a ticket, though



I am going to have a 45/70 double built by then.. but would greatly prefer to field test the 550 express!!



jeffe

Rick,

If we can get another 499 like yourself, it's a go.HI

Roger QSL

Thanks George.

Gentlemen



I think that the following rules should apply:



�1 Free choice of rifle



�2 PH should be a poster on the forum or related



�3 Booking agent should also be a poster on the forum or related



�4 Members applying should have more then 200 poste from the moment that this thread was strated.

This is to ensure that the hunt does not go to a non active member.



The reason for �� 2 and 3 is that this will make the buffalo hunt raffle more related to AR and the feed-back would be more intense and truthfull .

I furthermore se no reason for why the money $$ should leave the family



Cheers,



Andr�

All good points, Andre.
- mike

Lets have a poll! Please!

The most important things are of course when? and how much? Then we have camp facilities and caliber of rifle (handguns too?). Not much more to it.

Poll, poll!

The hunt happened, yes with a second outfitter, however I was seriously ill before leaving for Africa and never should have gone. I went because I had two other people going over, one of which was my A-R partner Mike Dettorre. I got sick after tickets had been arranged, etc.

I don't know if I should take some of these posts as sour grapes, or what, but I spent a lot of time in a hospital before going and went back in as soon as I got home. I was only able to do three days on the buff hunt. We never got close to a shooter bull in that short time but were too damn close to a couple of cows. Nothing like seeing eyelashes that close.

It took just over a year now for me to make it back to full strength. However, my medical issue remains chronic but now under control, so far. I have every intention of completing the hunt and hope to do so in late 2005.

I believe my post after the hunt and after getting back out of the hospital a second time explained all of this.

I hope something can be agreed on for a second A-R buff hunt as I had a short but great time. I really wish I could have completed it and enjoyed it with good health at the chosen time. To be fair, I will not participate in another raffle here. But well wishes to those who decide to carry on.

One more time, what happened on Buff Hunt Raffle I ????????

Gentlemen,

Wouldn't be nice if some sort of terms are set for this raffle?

They can be changed as recommendation come from the members of course, as required. But we should have at least something to start with.

A few simple facts would help, like when this going to happen, how much will it cost, what does this coast includes and excludes, whether the use of a 45/70 is mandatory or not etc.

So far all I can see is us going in no certain direction at all.

Saeed and members,

From the responses so far, most are agreeable to the 45/70 lever gun idea. This will be the platform from which to continue. Costing is not yet determined as the type and style of the hunt is yet to be selected. This is where the members should voice some thought as to what they want to spend on the hunt. A basic hunt, or something more comfortable. My personal choice, down and dirty. The getting of the buff the priority, as costs are going to be a major factor in this raffle.

From Ganyana:
Hi Rog

May I sugest...
1) Get hold of Ingwe safaris and book the hunt. Tell them that this is part of a raffel and the winner may want me as the PH.

Ingwe run the best camps in zim and have some of the best buff hunting. That way if the winner looks like mitchalin man and cannot walk three paces we might still get him a reasonable buff! If he can walk we may get him a great one!

A buff hunt all in including imported scotch, hot and cold running women, air transfer to camp from Harare, dip and pack of trophies, Medical air rescue insurance et al cost 9500. if you opt for a drive in, drop the insurance, don't include the dip and pack of trophies you might get the price down to arround the 7500 mark.

2) Don't be too dogmatic that I MUST be the PH. Different people need different PH's if they are going to get maximum enjoyment out of their safari. They come home with a black eye because they couldn't shoot, couldn't walk and anoyed me to the point where they got clupped isn't my idea of a great hunt and surely not the winners!

Bill Befords regular PH's are amongst the top guys in Africa. Depending on who the winner is and his likes in talking hunting/firearms how fit/old he/she is, Bill can match the winner up with the right PH. If the winner wants me, that is fine - more than happy to do the hunt - but my vehicle, attitudes etc are not what everybody wants.

3) Any of Bills PH's will take you out with a .45 - 70 or just about whatever else you want to bring.

Had lunch with Bill and his Ops manager Chaarl yesterday, and bounced the idea off them.

Dates are always a problem, especially with a top operator. Inwe are already nearly sold out for 2005

Ingwe can be contacted on 263-4-860292 or ingwew@mweb.co.zw



Alternatively go to Graham Hingiston at HHK. They are a huge operation so the winner will probably find it easier to get dates that suit and they have a wide veriety of camps to cater for every tast. They also have some superb areas. They still have a reasonable number of buff for 2005, and Graham is happy enough for me to take the hunt if that is what the winner wants. Again Graham has 23 full time PH's - all top hands- so we could find someone else very easily - like if Will wins it or something

HHK are on hhk@mweb.co.zw

Feel free to post this mail - or parts of it as you see fit, but feel if you are too dogmatic on caliber/PH operator you are limmiting yourselves and potentially limmiting the winners enjoyment. Take Not of Saeeds post. In Chete, Roy Vincent typically had ten hunters go home without a buff each year! Not because there were no buff - chete has thousands - but because they couldn't walk 15 miles a day - in 120 degree heat and 95% humidity. Saeed can and he he shot every left over buff every year that Roy had the place.



If no booking agents from AR choose to be involved, then Ganyana's suggested companies should be contacted. WE MUST HAVE AN IDEA OF WHAT WE WANT TO SPEND. This is what the members need to address. Again I say, stay cheap so we can sell the necessary entries.

Roger QSL

I'm in



Hope to be able to put to use that good looking 10,75 x 68 Mauser on the bigger game.

Gents,

Hereeeeeeee we go again.

Read through the following posts, and let us know your thought�s.

Roger,

You are welcome to post your raffle.

And I really cannot see what all the fuss is about in using the 45/70 for
buffalo. I will be happy to use it any day.

Best regards

Saeed


At 04:01 PM 12/6/2004, you wrote:
>Saeed,
>
>As per many times in the past, I am seeking your permission to put out to
>the Members, a Buff Hunt Raffle. This would be a feeling out post, and if
>there appears to be any interest, would procede as in the past.
>
>This hopefully will be the 45/70 hunt that never got realized in the first
>raffle. Never was advised as to the problems that occured on the first
>hunt as Ann wanted to wait for her trophies to be dealt with from that hunt.
>
>If this raffle comes to frutation, then you can surley expect some wild
>and informitive posts. A lot of cursing and I'm sure name calling.HI
>
>If you don't object, E-me.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Roger QSL

Rog - You have been at the baboon cabage again - wanting to do a hunt with ME

Of cource a hunt can be put together for a buff in Zim with just about whatever rifle you/the client wishes to bring. I have shot both ele and buff with 7.62 nato rounds and would happily take out a client after ele with one - Provided they could shoot like a dream, didn't get buck fever and were prepared to accept that there are some situations when there is no shot, when if they were armed with a .375 that ele would be tusks on the wall. (I wouldn't let a client try a .308 on buff). The same rules apply to taking a buff with a .45-70.

If you are not going to be demanding about the trophy (because murphy dictates that the only 40+" bull we'll see will be at 100 yards) or present a quatering shot with the vitals covered by the horn etc), and accept that if you bungle the shot that the buff is going to run away and then I want you with something more effective for the follow up.

As a general rule I do not believe in backing up clients - you shoot your animals and you wound it an loose it thats hunting. I find the animal but only shoot if somebody is likely to get stood on (principally me).

Having used a Martini Henry for much of my early hunting I am well aware of what a large lump of lead moving at moderate velocities can achieve. I also know the limitations. A good , classic heart/lung shot at under 40 yards and a .44 mag revolver or Martini is fine. As the angle changes or you are pushed into a frontal shot situation - no way. The .45-70 with modern loads in a marlin or 1886 is way better than a Martini and the margins increase appropriatly. I suspect that it would actually be fine for a frontal on a buff but not having tried it...

Read Taylors comments on the 10.75 Mauser and you will understand why the .45-70 cannot be considered an "all Round" african rifle. It cannot stop an ele/hippo/rhino on frontal and might be marginal on buff.

Also though - book for July/August. I cannot understand why, but english rifles always shoot 6" high when they arrive here and many American loads are way OTT pressure wise in the hot season. Southern Deserts of the USA must get as hot as here but I see too many factory standard rounds that give problems - all Weatherby .460 factory ammo, Horniday heavy magnum ammo in .458 Win, Some "sledgehammer"? 45-70 loads that wouldn't extract in a Ruger No 1 that a client had this year...

Now that you�ve read these posts, would like your thought�s as to doing another 45/70 Buff Hunt Raffle.

Ganyana, will gladly PH the hunt, through a booking agent, and states the 45/70 can be used with limited rules. What we need, is someone to put this package together, using Ganyana as the PH. He is very well educated in the use of lever action rifles, and this should aid in the success of taking a Buff with a 45/70, lever gun.

If this advances further, we would like to put together a team to handle the Raffle package.

Let me know your thoughts.

Roger QSL

Are we required to just hunt the buffalo with a 45-70, or do we also have to shoot it with a 45-70?

I don't understand the fascination with hunting buff with a 45-70, especially when there are so many better guns sitting in my safe. I hate to see an animal suffer to prove a point, but I gess if you don't screw it up, it'll work.

What the heck, I'm in.

Are you suggesting we hold another buff raffle?

I'm in... be it 45/70, any-gun-you-want-- spears.... botox...

jeffe

Anyone know how the guy who won the first buff raffle did?

500grains,

Well, if you carry it, I think you might want to use it.IMO

Gents, this is a feel out post. If enough members are interested, then more will be done. Personally, if it goes, and I win, I will DO THE BUFF with the 45/70. If this is not workable for the majority, then it can be discussed and things can change. Was hoping this time, that the hunt with go through as designed, and the we would all hear the results.
I believe if the Administrator would do it, the rest of the members would give it a try.

Roger QSL

Why not just raffle a buffalo hunt with no strings attached? It may draw a wider audience and therefore sell out more easily.

Just a thought.

and states the 45/70 can be used with limited rules. What we need, is someone to put this package together, using Ganyana as the PH. He is very well educated in the use of lever action rifles, and this should aid in the success of taking a Buff with a 45/70, lever gun.


All boils down to the same thing, stunts, marginal, limited circumstances. I wonder why that is?

I'm in but strongly prefer it having no requirement to use a bloody .45/70. I really don't see the silly fascination some have and demand others have for that calibre.

Why not let the winner choose their own rifle, will save money too as I'm not buying one with my own funds.



Here's a vote for a buffalo hunt raffle, no calibre requirement except the countries' legal requirements.

Depending on the cost of the raffle ticket I would be in for a gimmick hunt. if it is a steal I would do it with a sling and pocket full of smooth stones I have a number 3 that I could load up or I could borrow my stepfather's lever gun. but when I did the write up for it I would be honest and say the only reason I used a less suitable rifle was that it was part of the raffle.

I agree with the PH that he shouldn't have to do a kill for the client because they are shooting a less than ideal cartridge, but would try to take my shot in a reasonable distance and I am sure that loaded right it would do the job, if I did my part on the aiming. I wonder what the chances are my gunsmith would build me a bolt action 45/70?

Red

Jeffe,


Yesssssssssssss,

Nitro,

Fine by me on caliber choice. However, Ganyana must be in the equation. He will PH with the client using the 45/70. You can read some of his post's here at the lever gun threads.

Jeffe, as you have in the past, would you be willing to be active in this endevour?

Roger QSL

Why not, who wants to live forever anyway? Im in.

So are we agreed that there will NOT be a caliber choice limitation?

Using Ganyana as the PH is an excellent idea.

Andre.

That's the funniest GIF I'ver ever seen! Thanks!

Count me in again. .45-70 or not.

Was the first raffle hunt ever taken? I'd like to know before throwing more money down a dark hole?

I've got a .470 Searcy that REALLY, REALLY, REALLY wants to go to Africa!

I'm game. If I had the money, I'd go hunt a buffalo with a .45-70 just for the sheer joy of watching everyone on this forum but Saeed have a conniption over it.

Yep, I'll be in for sure - esp. if it's a .45-70 only. And I don't even own a .45-70, yet.

Brent

I'd be glad to partake, why I even have a 45-70 and I would not consider it a stunt hunt...........Bob

Yeah, I'll use my "special" 45-70. It's a rare factory prototype, something from the "custom shop"....it says "458 Lott" on the barrel. Trust me. No shit. Once upon a time.

I think the PH should also use a lever-action 45/70 as his back-up weapon.