The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting What if a hunter does cancel due to the virus?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Gents: If a hunter cancels due to fear of the coronavirus what is the responsibility of the PH/outfitter/agent for a refund? Same question if the airline cancels a flight. (We all know what Bushwack would do). Thanks for you input. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | ||
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In my experience, airlines will offer some form of recompense if they cancel flights. The recompense can be far less than ideal however, as I have found. Best to book with reputable carriers. Many Outfitters have cancellation / refund policy details outlined in a hunt contract and these details can be obtained before hunts are booked. I think one would also need to enquire if Coronavirus related cancellations specifically are considered to be included. I'm sure with many outfitters if you have a track record some accommodation is possible for cancellation. Not Coronavirus related but I was booked to do a mountain hunt in 2019. Slow healing post knee surgery forced me to cancel. In discussuion with the outfitter he offered full deposit refund - no questions. I was afraid my deposit was gone. However my aim was to do the hunt and we just rebooked for this year. I think we both won and I couldn't be happier with this result. Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing. | |||
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Answer to your question. Non at all. Let us be realistic, take responsibility for our own actions. If a hunter cancels, for any reason, it is HIS responsibility. No one else’s. If the outfitter or PH he is hunting with can help in the refund, or re-book, it is entirely up to him. Remember that he also has responsibilities. He has to pay for all the arrangements he made on your behalf. And it is certainly not a pleasant thing for him to be left out of pocket. We have seen here where a client had to cancel for health reasons, and in most cases the ones he has booked with have been very kind in response. That is great, and tells you more about the character of the people involved. Here we have an entirely different situation. It is affecting everyone, and to try to put the onus on the other side is not fair at all. I won’t go to the Far East right now, but I have no problem flying anywhere else. In fact, I am going to the airport in about an hour. Schools brought forward the break, and we are heading out to the Alps. | |||
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I should have added. Different airlines have different rules. Some airlines have different rules regarding refunds depending on the type of ticket you hold. Look at the small print. I have seen very cheap tickets where basically if you do not show up at the gate at a specific time you are screwed. No refund. No re-book. That is why these tickets are heavily discounted. | |||
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I have to agree with Saeed. If the hunter cancels, it is the hunters issue. | |||
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Great post.  Tom Z NRA Life Member | |||
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Zaeed...hats of too you Sir!! one of the best answers and reply's I've seen on this forum! Of cause as an Outfitter we want the client to hunt and be in camp but cancelling a hunt on short notice about a virus that have almost the same mortality rate as regular flue is not going to be nice for the outfitter and his entire crew of people that sole income is generated from the success of a hunt Phillip du Plessis www.intrepidsafaris.com info@intrepidsafaris.co.za +27 83 633 5197 US cell 817 793 5168 | |||
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My view is that if the cancellation is due to events out of hunter's control then maybe the outfitter should accommodate. For me this means all flights to destination are cancelled. If I can't get there then I can't hunt. BTW, so far the mortality rate of Covid-19 is about 2-3% the common flu is 0.1% huge difference. Not to mention the mortality rate for those that are over 60 is close to 15%. Again, a huge difference. | |||
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Please stop quoting mortality figures. There is no way to calculate mortality without widespread testing which has not happened and likely will not in the foreseeable future. These folks who are putting those numbers out should be ashamed. How many thousands or hundreds of thousands have had the virus with very mid symptoms or asymptomatic? Had a pal in the insurance business look at a trip we are on through Dubai and on to the Seychelles in a couple of weeks. Executive Summary- Unless the outfitter accommodates there is no recourse. | |||
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I think a bigger problem is the likelihood of an involuntary two week vacation extension on your return i.e. quarantine. | |||
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Absolutely agree. I am not worried about getting the virus. I am not worried about traveling to the destination. I am absolutely worried about being delayed coming home. | |||
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Please use the only reliable data that we currently have available from the CDC, WHO, John's Hopkins etc. and STOP sharing speculation without any fact or data basis whatsoever. We should be helping each other. Italy just quarantined 16 Million people last night. There will be more quarantines going into effect in other countries to different extents and the consensus expert data and opinion from the CDC and WHO is that mortality rates are definitely significantly higher than influenza. | |||
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Yep, the percentages I used at an earlier post was from CDC. | |||
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A friend of mine works for a major news organization. She was just told this Friday that if she left NYC then after her return she'd have to work out of her home for the following two weeks. Also, no concerts, events etc. for employees. | |||
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How would the CDC, Hopkins, WHO, etc gather accurate stats without testing? The numbers being thrown around cause a sense of unease that is harmful. Have yet to see any media that leads with the fact that we just don't have any idea on numbers and severity. | |||
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Now's the time to go on a ten day cruise , have an outbreak , and get an extra 14 days of cruising for free ________________________ Old enough to know better | |||
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Well if one were to regard sitting in your cabin and having nowhere else to go, having food left outside your cabin door while you’re stranded outside a Port... “cruising”... then I guess this could be the ideal vacation for some... Not for me though... Regards, Chris Troskie Tel. +27 82 859-0771 email. chris@ct-safaris.com Sabrisa Ranch Ellisras RSA www.ct-safaris.com https://youtu.be/4usXceRdkH4 | |||
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If I cancel any trip, safari or otherwise because of concerns with this outbreak, that’s my responsibility alone. Why should someone else be expected to share in the financial consequences of a decision that is solely mine? | |||
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You are simply incorrect. I don't think any amount of data will change your denial. Here's another way to explain mortality rate: That's potentially 10x to 20x the death rate of the flu. Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/t...nation-march-8-2020/ | |||
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Question: how did northern Italy get so many cases, diagnose so many cases, and have so many deaths in such a short time? I haven’t seen a great report that explains what seems to be an anomaly. | |||
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I think that was due to the carnival that attracted thousands of people from around the world, most of them jam packed at events. | |||
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I completely agree. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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Lefty- So now we are talking semantics? Gottleib confirms my point. The number of cases is unknown. They( the medical community) are using as a point of reference their ability to diagnose the flu. Certainly not apples and apples. | |||
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I fail to see how anything you have posted here refutes Crane’s post. One must have both sides of the equation in order to have real results, anything else is simply speculation regardless of who is doing the speculating. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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We have booked and paid for a cruise in May. We planned on taking my son who is graduating from high school. Still planning on going but the odds are decreasing | |||
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Lhook, please see here: http://forums.accuratereloadin...1411043/m/2971078752 There is ample current and evolving data of the severity of Covid-19 vs. flu. | |||
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I also agree, unless the safari operator's country closes. If you had a March hunt in China, it would be nearly impossible to get there. Also if you were able to leave the foreign country, you would be quarantined for who knows how long. Go Duke!! | |||
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The “evolving data” you reference above is not helping your steadfast position. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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I keep an eye on the running tab from south China post https://www.scmp.com/news/chin...y-increase-new-cases The Chinese govt sucked at first but there were brutal and efficient afterwards. 110k infected 4K dead 62k recovered 44k infected right now - I expect this number to keep declining. Not sure how the rest of the world does. Mike | |||
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The only thing that I am steadfast about is keeping current with the latest DATA. This is a rapidly evolving crisis. Again, the most up to date data gathered from recognized institutions and world leading health experts (CDC, WHO etc.) have universally agreed that Covid-19 is significantly more deadly than the flu. | |||
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Yesterday I flew from Dubai to Geneva. A few passengers in Dubai airports had masks, but most did not. At Geneva airports immigration they had signs asking people not to stand too close together. That advice was very hard to follow, as the immigration hall was very small, and packed. One Indian passenger, wearing a mask and busy on his phone, kept bumping onto me. I told him to stay away from me, pointing to the signs. He stayed about a meter behind me after that. | |||
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I got a message asking what I would do. So instead of answering in a message I will post my answer here. I am in a bit of a special relationship with my PH. I have known him and his family for many years. We never had any written agreements. We never discussed or argued about price or payments. I go and hunt with him. He sends me a bill whenever he feels like it. I pay it the same day. Our hunts are booked face to face or on the phone. Neither of us has any doubts about the other. If I have to cancel for any reason, I expect to pay any bill he sends me. No questions asked. | |||
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All of this should be addressed in the hunting agreement. The fees and deposits surrendered due to client cancellation is a basic part of any hunting agreement regardless of the reason. Outside of this, it really becomes the operator's prerogative how much further they wish to go. The hysteria surrounding the Coronavirus is far worse than the actual virus. But we live in a new world of mass hysteria powered by the meia who has no other fake new stories to hype at the moment. But for realists, it seems there will be lots of hunt cancellations this year (shocker) so lots of cheaper hunts coming up. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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I also have been watching the China numbers from the WHO situation report. It seems that the new case reports have all but stopped considering there are so many still infected. WHO reported only 46 new cases yesterday, seems that number should be higher based on the number infected? | |||
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And I do not believe there is enough data to make any such judgements with any real reliability. It could turn out to be 100 times more deadly than the flu, it could just as easily turn out to be 100 times less deadly. All the misinformed panic in the world is not going to change how simple math works. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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Just got back from a couple of weeks hunting Uganda. Flew Qatar through Doha - route IAH-DOH-ENT. No issues other than about of a third of people in the Hammad Airport were wearing masks. Like Ebola, (which when the outbreak was on I flew to safari in Cameroon) your chance of contracting COVID-19 are slight. Certainly chances are next to nil if you stay at home, but that is always the case in life. Go on safari. If all airports close and the world ends and you can't get there certainly you are due a refund. If not, don't let the media and the widespread panic scare you away from a good time. A safari and a cruise are two very different trips, you will be in a concession with few people and have a greater chance of contracting malaria than COVID-19. In a month or so this will blow over, don't postpone your life based on fear... On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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Good stuff. How did you get on in Uganda? ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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You won’t catch me dead on a cruise ship! Being stuck on a floating coffin with 7000 soles is not my idea of fun. | |||
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Great Andrew... hunted with 3 other guys in the Karamojo North concession of Uganda Wildlife Safaris. We shot 12 buffalo on that trip. I shot a Nile Buffalo, Cape Buffalo and a very nice old scrum cap! Also took Guenther's Dik Dik and a huge bodied Uganda warthog, weighed at 100 kilos even! Spent a few days in Aswa Lolim then I headed back. Rest of the guys are on to the Kafu River Basin. I've "been there, done that" so I just got home after a couple of weeks. On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting What if a hunter does cancel due to the virus?
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