Guys, firstly I'd like to say that I see LOTS of clients from all over the world shoot everything from duiker to Buffalo and up, and quite honestly the best shots tend to be the Americans. I hate to say it, (being a Brit myself) but with a few exceptions, many Brits (probably over 50%) can't shoot for shit.....especially at anything over 100 yards!

Secondly, Ray started his post with the words "I practice" and that's the key. You need to get out there and practice your shooting at varying ranges and varying shooting positions.

Thirdly, don't just practice with your rifle, play with it as well. You need to be as familiar with your rifle as a lady is with her handbag.

Hope I haven't stated the obvious.

Gday guys,

Over here in Australia I have the luck of shooting a lot of Kangaroo's on permits for farmers, as they compete with cattle for pasture, I dont use a spotlight as most Roo shooters do, I go chasing them on foot in the thick coastal scrub of my area, the action is fast and furious and excellent for keeping your eye in, the "hopping action" makes for a very keen target, and it doesnt take long to become a good shot, I use a peep sighted lever gun and you couldnt ask for better practice for the bigger stuff.

What is also needed is to start at point blank range like in P.O.S.T. Qualifications. When your shots are small enough to give you confidence then step back 5-10 paces and shoot until your groups at the further distance is at least close to your point blank groups. Then go further back again. Do this at your leisure as good practice makes goods shots and don't push it. Like the master shooter from Idaho says "I Practice". All this sounds like a big mountain to climb but we all have to crawl before we can walk.

Now, please don't laugh, , but I practice in the house with a BB gun and targets are magazine and outdoor catalog covers. It doesn't take much time and builds "muscle memory." Trouble is, the grandkids visit and want to shoot up all my best target material!
Range time is, of course, necessary with the particular rifle to be used on a hunt, but the cheap practice seems to make everything easier.

My feeling on shooting in the field particularly offhand is that most people waste too much time. I learned to lock on the target, both eyes open, bring the gun up, and use a quick smooth pull of the trigger as soon as the sights are on. I don't know the scientific aspects of it, but I think or it as being like holding a bow at full draw for a minute before shooting. Does anyone here shoot better after holding a draw for a minute or two? When I was teaching my son to shoot offhand, I taught him to use this method, locking on, bringing the rifle up, fire as quickly as you're on target, after the first session, he was shooting shotgun shells at 35 yards with a 7x57, then I had him shooting two of them in a couple of seconds. A lot of shooters waste a lot of time shooting groups from a bench because at the range it's all they can do, to do this offhand practice your own range is almost necessary. I switched this method over from shooting bowling pins with a .45 to a rifle, simply locking on bringing up the pistol, fire when it's on, and I could take the sights off of the .45 for all I care. Another thing I've noticed is I shoot everything with both eyes open, no matter what power the scope is, although I keep hearing people repeating something like it can't be done with over 4x. When shooting offhand, if I wander off the target, instead of keeping the gun up and watching it wobble around, I'll pull the butt back down, under my arm and start the process over again quickly.

On another angle Ray Atkinson is right, heavy guns and long barrels are for shooting, light guns are for carrying around, not for hitting offhand. Pick up a traditional muzzleloading rifle, not a modern one that's been ruined, a real piece or a close copy. then you'll know what the term 'hang' means when shooting offhand. A pound of rifle weight doesn't mean much to me, I'd rather carry one I can shoot and leave some of the other bullshit items in the truck or in camp.

Practice your wingshooting. The best rifle shots I know are also great shotgunners.

Orion,

2" groups at 200 yards off hand, man that is pretty good shooting...I'd like to get you on the range and watch that...better yet, being a sporting gent, I'd like to put up $100.00 a shot.

Ray and Orion
I'd like to see that as well. I get about 10" to 12" offhand at 200 yards and I don't think I'm the worst shot out there.

Damn! At 200 yds. I use shooting sticks or solid sitting with the adjusted shooting sticks. I know I can't shoot worth a shit at 200 yds offhand. The best I can do is about 18"-20" and that's only if I try the "snap shot" as I wander so much nowadays that I will limit my offhand shots at 150 yds. Something about getting old and having multiple injuries where you never get as limber as when you were in your 20's. I'm a wuss.

How about pratising at the range like the test we have here at the Ph courses !

All offhand the more off hand you shoot the more comfortable you get with your gun like mr Atkinson said. Most of the time the taking too long is not waiting for the right shot but not knowing your gun well enough to be confident on offhand shooting. Finding a rest always takes time in thick bushvled you are not that far away from the animals so practising off hand will give you a better chance.

Setup 3 targets each at 30, 20 and 10 yards have a 4" circle on it. Get someone to time you keep your rifle on safe and get the person to time you to shout start with your rifle in your hands not on your shoulder start with the 30 yard target and you have 10 seconds. Get that right and any hog that comes your way is going to have a nightmare of a day

Then setup a target at 60 yards preferably a life size target if you can get hold of one. Draw your own vital circle inside the vital circle smaller only 6". At your own time see if you can hit the target 3 times in a row. Do the same with another target at 40 yards but with a 5" vital circle. Enjoy and practise you could then also end up getting timed on how long you take on the shots. And see how your confidence grows as you practise more and more.

Hi
If you can't break 3 of 4 claybirds with your hunting rifle and good opensight(experess sight),then you need to practice a lot before you go and wound a lot of animals or get killed by a lion or buffalu. In sweden in order to have your hunting certificat you have to put 4 rapid shots in the heart of a runinig deer(20 miles per hour) at 100 yds and it is the minimal requirment and it is off hand.
regards
danny

Danny,
What your calling a deer is what we call a moose I believe...that would make the target a little easier to qualify, but not a lot...Correct me if I'm mistaken...

In the interest of accuracy (no pun intended), the SR military target used @ 200 yards for both offhand slow fire and sitting rapid fire* has a 3" X ring, 7" ten ring and a 13" aiming black (the 9 ring).

{*Rule 4.3 NRA Highpower Rifle Rule book}

Have never shot the hunter rifle matches, but IIRC, the same target is used as for NRA HP.
The difference between NRA HP and Hunting Rifle competition is mainly sights (NRA mandates metalic sights, SR allows scope) and number of rounds fired (NRA course of fire is 10 shots per rapid fire string, requiring a magazine reload, IIRC SR course is only 5 rounds to conform to most sporting rifle magazines).

As Orion stated, either of these matches improve shooting skills as does any quality position shooting practice. Trigger time builds confidence and familiarity with the rifle.

Regards,
hm

Edit to include: Been shooting NRA HP many years and would be thrilled to keep all my shots in the 10 ring offhand.

[ 07-26-2003, 22:15: Message edited by: hm1996 ]

Had some very interesting comments on this one.

What I've been doing lately is bringing several rifles to the range -- on any given range trip I will have some to test loads in, others for field practice. Lets the barrels cool.

For field practice I put a paper plate or two above my sight-in targets at 100 yds. I shoot them offhand and am trying to speed it up. I've gotten pretty good at calling my shots.

If I have the time I also shoot a few at 50 and try to hammer them *fast*.

The other night I hauled a bunch of rifles out of the safe and tried them dry fire, one after the other. I used an electronic timer from my serious pistol shooting phase set for a random start and par time of 3 seconds.

I'd start with the safety on, buttpad against my hip, push start and at the beep, aim at a particular half brick on a wall outside, about 30 yds away. If the firing pin didn't click before the 3-second beep, I'd count it as a miss. (The 3-second time came from a Dave Petzal article in the latest Field & Stream -- Petzal says he's comfortable with his shooting when he can hit an 8" bullseye in 3 seconds at 100 yds offhand, 18 out of 20 times.)

I made a few observations from the exercise:

The rifle I actually shoot best, dry or live, is a Ruger 77 MK II .280 Rem. in a Boyd's laminate stock. At the range I can usually shoot 4-6" groups with it (100 yds, offhand). However, starting with the safety on is a handicap -- there's not much to push against, and pushing straight forward does nothing. (Does anyone do a modification to deal with this?)

Two others I shoot pretty well that don't have that problem are my Beretta Mato .338 and Whitworth .375 H&H. Both have Model 70-type safeties that work very well for me. The .375 is no lightweight and is therefore particularly steady.

I was interested that the "lever lock" safety on my Savage 99 doesn't slow me down much. It's so different from everything else I shoot that I thought it would be a handicap. At the range, though, I tend to pull my shots low with this rifle--maybe because it's lighter in the muzzle than my others.

John

Hi guys
I meant moose which is called �lg in swedish which is a kind of deer All right somwhat bigger but the herat area is not bigger than 4-6 inches in diameter and it is on runing target and off-hand. do not understimate swedish hunters
regards
danny

i forgot to mention PMC cowboy rounds in 30-30 and 170 gr lead they clock at 420 m/s in my son's 24 nch blld win 94 are excellent for clay bird shooting and the best way to learn shooting fast is concidering your rifle as a shotgun . I mean to point it instead of aiming carefully'
danny

John Frazier-

What you're talking about on the Ruger MkII safety is a common complaint, it just needs a 1/4 inch wing on it and it's fixed. On mine however, I've never seen a problem carrying it with the safety in the middle position when close to game, it's just as safe to me, only the bolt isn't locked down, when on the sling, etc, I lock it back. If the rifle is in my hands getting ready for a shot, this seems perfectly safe and is very quick to take off safety. I can't figure out why they wouldn't have done it right when the action was redesigned to start with.

I go along with Orion. NRA competetive shooting teaches you how to mount the rifle, stare at a front sight, and squeeeezzzzzeee the trigger, real fast!

Secondly a pistol timer is great to really measure how quick you get your shots off. Smooth is fast! I started out with 9" paper plates at 25 yds. Once I got my shots off in 1.5 seconds, I then went to 50 yds., etc.

500grain and I are lucky because we live where there a bunches of jackrabbits. I went this week end and used my pre-'64 Model 70, '06 with 3X9 Leupold. I shot 132 rds. all at running jacks over 100 yds. Yeah, more of the escaped then got hit, but each week end my hit ratio goes up. I'm getting in shape both walking and lifting that heavy rifle up several hundred times.

I survived Vietnam as a Marine grunt because of the NRA and jack rabbits!

HI,

Once again I found myself agreeing with MR. Atkinson, I see everyone at the range using the bench and thing that there groups are so tight it will work when hunting. I try to sight in from the bench then shoot in field postions, as no hunter will have a bench in the field. And by doing so a person will know his limitations for distance. Kev