One recurring point in many posts here, other sites, books, etc. is that American hunters take too long to shoot.

On a recent pig hunt with Kyler Hamann (a fine, competent and experienced fellow who posts here) he told me I had "wait-itis."

The problem was a series of little bushes, tufts of grass, etc. and the beast was moving right along. Range was close enough that leading the target wasn't much of an issue but I didn't want to have a bullet deflect somewhere bad. So I had to get up from sitting to kneeling for a clearer shot. It was the very end of the last day and I didn't want to take any chances.

I didn't and the meat arrived this week. (Had to wait until I could get a bigger fridge delivered.)Italian sausages on the grill for dinner tomorrow!

So, any tips or drills for learning to get the shot off quickly?

John

[ 05-25-2003, 16:27: Message edited by: John Frazer ]

It sounds as though you made the right decision. I like to make clean kills and if their is the chance that something might deflect the bullet I will not take the shot either. In regards to quicker shots I would take some time at the range and practice your bolt throws and with time you will get more accurate and quicker.

I don't think waiting is such a bad idea. When you have to pony up for any wounded game, it makes you more hesitant and should result in less wounded game.

I think a bigger problem is the tendency of Americanos, including me, of waiting to see what effect the first shot had, instead of continuing to blaze away as long as it is still on it's feet. Africa has helped me get over some of that.

When I go practicing with my friends, and if there is a wind blowing we often release balloons just the kind you get for the kids birthday, and practice shooting on them, its fun and builds up speed and will get you to mount the rifle like a shotgun and like everybody knows, practice makes perfect

[ 05-25-2003, 16:41: Message edited by: solvi ]

For what it's worth, that's one thing on every hunting show that runs me crazy. I don't know the number of these I have seen where someone takes aim for what seems like a minute, then pushes off the safety, does it all again, and finally declares that the animal "moved before I had a chance to shoot". I think a lot of this comes from the fact that most people really don't hunt a lot but spend unending hours at range on the benchrest. When I was a kid, I loved to shoot, so I did a lot of target practice. I was always amazed that my Dad and his friends almost never shot a gun unless they were hunting. A lot of it was economics, but a lot of it was due to the fact that they hunted something probably 50-60 days a year. Whether it was rabbit, squirrel, groundhogs, crows or anything else, they were always shooting at game. And they shot as soon as the sight picture was acquired; no waiting. And they were good.

I think you can train yourself to shoot quickly. I did it when young by what I consider simple plinking. You have to have a place to do it, of course, but you need to simply walk around and pick random targets an shoot. They can be rock chips, patches of dirt, tufts of grass or anything else that will record a visual hit. Remember, you are trying for hunting accuracy, not benchrest. This is only valid for short range (less than 150yd shooting). Anything longer obviously requires more care. If you do this regularly, you will be amazed how much faster you will be able to shoot. It will carry over to all your shooting form (prone, sitting etc). You will also find the practice becomes a lot of fun and much more of a stress reliever than constant bench shooting. It's sort of like "burning powder" with a purpose.

Art & Solvi,

All great advice. You can't learn to shoot fast at game by sitting at the target range.

I believe the idea of a quick shot is not the same as a quick aimed shot..The few seconds between a flushing pheasant and proper mounting the shotgun and a clean kill..I look back on on a trap range some shots seem like you have all the time in the world and others you are behind and timing off and you miss...
On my past trip to Africa sumnmer 02 I practiced every weekend form March till the end of June from 50yds 100, 200,& 300. From a bench to make sure where I was hitting and them moved to leaning against the benches and posts..Made shooting sticks and practiced with them...I made it a game I put up 6&8 inch pie plates. I would randomly shoot at them during the last month..Set the sticks and bring up the rifle and aim and fire in 5 to 10 seconds or I should say as smooth and fast as possible...Took a bushbuck at 300yds he made the mistake of stopping before he entered the bush and practice paid off..

Mike

Freedom is not Free

The ability to make a quick aimed shot depends on a number of factors: 1) a rifle that fits you; 2) the proper relationship between the heights of the comb and the scope so that a solid cheek weld to the comb reliably puts your eye behind the scope; 3) a consistent cheek weld; 4) a consistent shoulder mount; 5) a good trigger; 6) magnification of no more than 4X and probably closer to 3X; 7) keeping both eyes open and looking at your aiming point (not the whole animal) as you mount the rifle to your shoulder to improve the chances of having your crosshairs lined up immediately; 8) pushing the safety off as or before you mount the rifle; 9) touching the trigger with your trigger finger (and taking out the slack if a two-stage trigger) as your eye lines up with the scope; and 10) a surprise break of the trigger. When all of this is integrated into a single fluid motion, assuming a clear shot presents itself, it's possible for the shot to be made within a second after the buttstock is pulled into your shoulder.

here's a way to shoot faster... but, I still won't take a nonclean shot.

Place 2 2" bullseye targets ~8 feet away from each other, at 50 yards.

PRACTICE lifting the rifle (or pistol) with it EMPTY and your eyes CLOSED. When the Rifle hits your shoulder, you should be AT LEAST on paper. If not, the rifle doesn't fit you.

When the rifle does fit you. Aim at one target, take your sweet time getting the picture just right (sights or scope on lowest setting) and then, just before you think you should begin taking up the trigger, swing to the OTHER target, and shoot it as fast as you possibly(safely) can.

Sounds like a trival thing?

Try it this way. Take 5 aimed shots at one target, slow and steady, offhand. Then try the excercise above, and compare the groups.

In time, you'll find that
1: Your rifle should fit you
2: Your slow aimed shots will come faster
3: Snap shots will become easier.

Hope this helps
jeffe

I think you are 180 degrees off. The only complaints I've heard from guides, PHs and my own personal observations is that we Americans start throwing lead in the air before we know what part of the animal we're aiming at. Total lack of patience, or willingness (ability?) to move in and set up a higher percentage shot.

I've known more shoot-um-in-the-ass jump-shooters than I care to remember.

I love hunting with people that try to out-think the game rather than those that rely on shooting them somewhere with a premium bullet so they get maximum penetration, praying it reaches some vital organ on the other end of the animal.

Slingster has it all above, you just might need some training to get all that dialed in and available on demand.

Practice makes perfect only if the practice is perfect.

Such rifle handling is a learnable skill. I recommend going to a school like Gunsite to learn to be perfect.

jim dodd

I've fired on numerous military ranges where targets pop up at various ranges from 50-300 meters. You only have 3 seconds to observe the target, estimate range, aim and fire. Then the target disappears. A typical session would involve 40 targets. 10@ from the prone, sitting, kneeling and standing positions.

A civilian version using animal shaped targets would be worth going to. A great way to learn the art of the rifle.

In regard to the safety, it belongs on the left side of the bolt, where your thumb is. Fn and Brno had the best with their 45 degree low scope bolt safeties. The model 70 style looks nice, but isn't very practical.

Just an observation...we've found that quail hunters are the fastest shots. It's a fact.
Rich Elliott

Hi Folks,

I've just finished my 1st weeks hunting for the season; had a bunch of great guys from Europe who took a range of nice animals from Sable to Nyala.

On finding this topic and thought I'd add a few findings / frustrations that are not new.

The majority of the folk on this hunt could shoot very well however often took way to long to take the shot; the bush was very thick, the Impala are still in rut and everything is very active and does not stand still for too long. In most cases it is see the animal and it's like counting 1,2, 2 late!!!

We did a number of stalks where I had folk up nice a close on some excellent trophies, we took what we wanted but slipped up on a very very large kudu bull and 2 very nice Impala rams that simply did not wait around.

As Rich pointed out, the shotgunners in the group did well, instinctive and fast shooting in the specific circumtances we were hunting in made a difference, we did not use shooting sticks once.

Ironically, we did 3 great stalks on some Nyala bulls and they were in no rush or bothered to run off. In between choosing the best bull, we could have finished our sandwiches and tea before shooting

Did have a fun run-in with some buffalo that will be the subject of another post..was the cause for much mirth and merriment at my expense!!

Regards

Most people shoot off a bench all the time and all thats good for is sighting in and working up good loads....Off hand practice makes good shots and all the hoopla of how its done is just that..

Go to the range, throw the gun to your shoulder and whey the sights are on pull the trigger..If the gun doesn't fit you, then pretty quick you will adjust to it...shotgun or rifle...

I can shoot one gun as well as another off hand as long as the gun is properly sighted in....

The one thing about hunting is the hunter being able to take advantage of the shot when it is offered....Those are they guys who are consistently successful...I can recall a lot of hunts wherein I had only one oppertunity and sometimes it wasn't a very good one but I came home with the meat...

I also know a lot of guys who either missed or tarried too long and lost the opertunity...Good shooting is the key and you can be fast and good if you work at it..

John, if I may chime in here...

With an 8" dinner plate as your "kill zone" I suggest you start at 50 yards. Start with the rifle in field ready (buttstock at your hip, muzzle in line between your eyes and the target). Practice the following slowly and without ammo at first, then gradually pick up speed until you feel you've gotten five good "hits" before trying it with live ammo.

From the field ready, push the muzzle straight towards target as you pivot the rifle around the muzzle up to your shoulder (i.e., the muzzle is the pivot point and stays in line between your eyes and the target). You should push forward only enough to assure that the buttpad won't snag on your clothing. Take the safety off as you start the forward push but keep your finger off the trigger.

When the butt is level with your shoulder, pull it straight back into your shoulder at the same time you achieve your cheek weld to the stock. If you have been looking at your target with both eyes all the time you were performing these moves, and if the rifle fits you well, the scope should "blink" into view as soon as your cheek hits the stock with the crosshairs on or near the target. (At this point, if you have weak or cross-dominance in your eyes, you can dim your non-shooting eye, but not before.) Touch the trigger (and take out any slack) as you achieve your cheek weld.

Lean into and over the rifle a bit, shifting your weight more over your forward foot (but don't unweight your back foot! About 60% front, 40% back is good). This will help steady you and also tends to make the recoil come straight back rather than making the muzzle jump upwards. You could even bend your support side knee a little if that helps.

Follow-through and recovery are also important. Try to maintain your sight picture through the shot and beyond, and if it was disturbed, regain it as quickly as possible. Also, keep the buttstock firmly in your shoulder through and after the shot and work the bolt handle with alacrity to reload during recoil and recovery so that by the time you're back on target you've reloaded, regained your firing grip, and your trigger finger is back on the trigger, slack out if needed.

As with most of shooting, "smooth is fast" so don't rush and get jerky; rather, develop a rhythm and pacing that allow you to perform these actions without fumbling. A good standard is three seconds from when the muzzle starts forward to when the striker falls, but if you need a second more to do it reliably, take the extra second. As you get smoother, you'll get faster.

If you want to learn to shoot fast, hunt jackrabbits by walking through sagebrush. It's a game of shoot fast or don't shoot.

I have to admit this is one area Im lacking. I tend to be too deliberate and take too long some times. I know I need to practice more at this to get better. On the other hand I would rather loose some opportunities than take a rushed or unsure shot. I know there is a happy medium out there.

Slingster's most excellent post above is pure Cooper Doctrine as taught at Gunsite and other schools that follow the same.

If you think you can become a great field shot from reading an Internet post, by all means make it so.

Having been there, done that (and got several T-Shirts), I recommend the hands-on training with instructors who can diagnose what you are doing imprefectly and help you fix it.

The outfitters I hunt with all have complimented my on my shooting, and I know where the real credit belongs. The last time I talked with Jeff Cooper I thanked him for the doctrine and training. He was pleased by that.

jim

John,
I practice point shooting without using sights ast 25 and 50 yards at whatever...I shoot as fast and smooth as I can at 100, 200, and 300 yards all off hand...that way you know your true capabilities and with practice you might surprise youself...

I think the most important thing is don't aim to long or muscle fatigue will defeat your shot...The more magnification in your scope the worse you will shoot off hand as you will tend to grab at the trigger as it floats by...I do my best off hand shooting with iron sights, peep or shallow V and most any range, but a 2.5 or 3X scope is also quite effectiver off hand...

Trigger pull is nice but one can shoot a bad trigger if he knows its pull and what to expect. Too light a trigger is as bad as too hard a trigger to the beginner....I love the double set trigger for off hand running shots, but It took a lot of practice to conquer it, but once mastered the double set trigger is awesome on a running animal, that is what it was designed for BTW, a little known fact...

Once the fast off hand shot is mastered then the rest is a snap...Long range shooting is a whole new ball game with different rules but it too can be mastered..I shoot rockchucks in Idaho to keep a sharp edge on my long range shooting...

And last but not least is the gun must be properly sighted in and to be successfull you must be responsible for keeping it sighted in..

I sight my gun, and I record its sighting on my Bushnell bore sighter, I check that gun with the bore sighter each morning, or most mornings, to be sure its on the money BEFORE the hunt not AFTER the hunt...I learned this lesson the hard way many times and when I get careless or lazy I learn it all over again and again and again....

500 grains has it right. The best practice I have found is jump shooting jacks with a 22. You soon realize how much a limitation scopes are for short fast action.

One more thing that helps me is to limit my coffee intake on any morning I am hunting. I usually drink it all day while I am working and I found that it can really put a shake on my hand, something I really notice while trying to hold something in my scope.

Doug

dwhunter,
Sorry old boy, I cannot function without huge gigantic amounts of caffine, I'd rather miss the shot!!! albiet coffe steadies my aim, I go into chillblains, coldromes and collapsasides without it....

Ray,

I didn't say quit as I am like you, I drink the stuff all day long. Only when I go hunting I have one pot in the morning instead of two!!


Doug

Fast Shooting:

A few years ago in South-Africa, i did some very fast shots on running pigs. I got 2 warthogs.

The PH said that i shot very fast and asked me how i managed to do this.

My answer: practice, practice and practice...again!

I usualy go shooting 2 up to 3 times a month with my rifle. The good thing on the range is that it's a military range with almost no accomodation.
So you can practice every possible position.

My advice: shoot every day you can and try different positions

Faster and rushing musn't be confused.

All shots at game should be good enough. Cross hairs wavering around the chest take the shot, cross hairs wavering arse to chin take another breath and if that fails another position, get closer or allow the animal to walk.

Undisturbed game take your time and savour the moment. Something on it's way get on with it.

After a while most people can tell when something is going to stop and when something isn't.

Very good posts. I find dry firing practice very helpful to keep my shooting reflexs sharp. Put a picture on the wall and practice bringing the rifle up, releasing the safety as you do, getting on target quickly and pulling the trigger. Fast shooting like many athletic endevours involves muscle memory. The more you do it the more automatic it becomes. I like shooting station 8 skeet with a low gun as well.

Jeff

I use Jeff Cooper's TV dry practice as well. The object is to engage every letter "OH" or numeral zero that appears on the screen with your rifle.

When the target appears go from your ready position (usually sitting), mount and "fire", then run the bolt for a second shot.

This will show you how friendly your rifle is, as well as work you out too.

I tried this once upon a time with a 10.5 pound .450 Ackley, that I eventually sold because I found it "unhandy".

jim

For plenty of practice in offhand shooting and fast, aimed shots, compete in either NRA highpower sporting rifle with your hunting rifle, or in NRA conventional highpower with a bolt action match rifle.

You will learn to shoot offhand very precisely. Speed can then come as you learn the muscle memory to get a good offhand hold. You will also learn how quickly your hold deteriorates if you try to drag an offhand shot forever. Once you can shoot tens (2 MOA) on that small aiming black in 5 to 8 seconds at 200 yards, you will be amazed how fast you can do same on a much bigger deer.

Speed in getting off the first and follow up shots is also learned in sitting rapid fire. You have 60 seconds to get off ten well aimed shots with a reload in the middle. Thar means that your first two shots need to come within 2 to 3 second of sitting down to shoot, or you won't have time to finish the string.

You will also learn what it takes to shoot accurately at 300 and 600 yards, and you will quickly learn to distinguish the bullshit "I shot this buck at 500 yards" stories from the real deal.

Gunsite and all those other "tactical" schools are great, but can you do them every (or almost every) weekend? Highpower you can.

PS, I enjoy my trip to the local indoor rifle range to check zero on my hunting rifles the weeks prior to rifle season. I get a laugh from all the I-shoot-once-a-year and always-shoot-from-the-bench crowd. The best was some dude with a Marlin 30-30 with a huge scope on see-through mounts and a forend bipod. He was shooting paper at 25 yards.

Great posts!

Obvious that there are a few Obi Wan Kenobis here.
I must admit to being a Puke Skyshotter a time or two.

Low powered scopes and heavy duplexs have helped me big time. Practice and dryfiring around the house has helped me even more.

I also practice visualizing difficult shot angles on game while dry firing, and when looking at pictures of game. For me visualization of shot angles has added up to little or no hesitation when the shot came.

Just my thoughts
Jamie

dwhunter,
Your a GOOD Texan!! One pots OK..

To all,
I also might add that an off hand gun should have a 26" barrel and weigh in the 9 lb. catagory, particularly an iron sighted off hand gun, but also a scoped gun. Our forefathers knew from whence they came on this. No place for the light featherweight with short barrels here, they are hard to hold, especially after a short sprint...

I prefer iron sights to a scope for off hand shooting at 100 yards and under..A scope magnifies your wobble and that makes it harder to hit, you cannot see that all that wobble with irons and concentrate on trigger pull,and thats critical to good shooting of any kind..

A friend devised a little device to help us practice moving targets. He mounts 2 gallon milk jugs and a balloon on a sloping wire so that when the balloon is hit the first jug starts to slide down a wire about 60 yds long with the other jug trailing.(The balloon releases the jugs.) The object is of course to break all three before the jug gets to the end of the wire. WE usually do this starting at 50 yds and work back. It is good practice. It gives you a sense of security when you get all three with a 375 or 458 at 80+ yds.
The whole thing lasts about 5-6 seconds but it seems real fast.

If you want to shoot faster, go to your sporting clays range, and shoot the rabbit station at about 15 yards. Without pre-mounting your gun. Doubles, of course.

Shoot about 50 a week for a summer.

Even with a shotgun, your effective pattern is only about 8-10 inches at 15 yards, and those rabbits are moving right along.

My Phys. Ed. educated brother tells me it takes 3,000 repetitions before a movement is executed on "muscle memory". Cheaper and easier to get there with a shotgun than with a rifle! FWIW, Dutch.

On the run....I also practice live targets in Pa. in the summer.. I go and hunt groundhogs with high power rifles...I stalk up to 30yds or so jump them and start your swing and hit them before they make home ground and hit the burrow...
It makes for some very exciting stalking and hitting on the fly...

Mike

Freedom is not Free

I have to say for the bolt action shooters the most important "habit" to develop for accurate fast shooting is the habit of chambering a fresh round as soon as you can during the recoil/re-acquire sight picture phase of shooting.

That habit helped me nail a fast running western whitetail buck in El-Paso TX at 180 yards. Shot 1 went over the whithers and busted a rock turning the buck broad side (he was running at an angle away from me up the dry wash before the first shot) I had chambered a fresh round and nailed him with a perfect 1/3 chest shot (cleved the top of his heart clean off, pulverized the lungs and left a 4" exit wound - all that from a 257 WM and 100gr spire points - Speer!) I couldn't have made the shot without the "habit" I developed of chambering a fresh round "instantly" after the first shot. He ran behind some brush a couple of steps later so I had possibly another second - no time for hesitation. I didn't know I had "hit" cleanly until I went down and found his blood trail with lung tissue in it. He ran another 200 yards on the adrenalin and oxygen in his brain before toppling over. My dad was very proud of me that day (I was 13 years old!)!

Also, do alot of bird hunting with a pump shotgun, you really get in the habit of "jacking in" that next round instinctively. Also wing shooting is great practice for offhand rifle shots on running or walking plains game. It "taught" me to follow through and "track my target" until I could "verify the kill or it flew out of range. Of course growing up in Texas, we ALL (All of us kids) started Dove and Quail hunting early, if you can hit a dove flying with a 30mph tail wind (from a "Texas Norther") you can "hit anything"! IMHO

Just a .02 (USD - LOL) from a US Hunter.

Mike R. in TN

John Frazer
All the above posts are excellent advice.
The main thing you need to shoot fast is CONFIDENCE. As soon as the sights are aligned properly SHOOT. Science,art and witchcraft have to all come together. As Ray said, the only shot you get may not be perfect, but with practice experience and confidence it will be good enough.
You will know you are there when you start making shots and do not remember even looking at the sights, or "aiming in the scope". But you "know" you had to have "aimed" or you would have missed.
While I had killed game with iron sights with a handgun, when I got my double rifles about 5 years ago I had only killed two dear with iron sights on a rifle. I started using my doubles for everything. I used them at a place that had a problem with skunks and armidillos. Then started using them to hunt deer and pigs. I have since had several "doubles" on pigs, that is, sneak up on them and kill one with a right and one with a left. I have used my doubles and iron sights enough now that I have confidence in the fact that if I see the animal at the end of the rifle bbl and pull the trigger I better have a sharp knife.
John you just need to get over the "worry" of missing. Practice with your rifle and you will have CONFIDENCE.
USE THE FORCE.......... so to speak