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Folks, I'm not a bowhunter nor do I have any desire to hunt DG with a bow but I find it pretty hard to argue with Ken's comments here. If a bowhunter realizes his limitation and a PH also realizes the limitations of archery tackle and is willing to accept the responsibility that comes with the hunt I see no problem with it. The Duckworth brothers in Zim, John DuPlooy in Zambia and Adam in Tanzania are all experienced PH's that have and are more than willing to take an archer on a DG hunt. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Why do hunting authorities in most African countries demand a minimum caliber of .375 for DG and some of the larger antelopes if a bow and arrow is just as adequate (as some imply)? Not saying and never said it can't be done - it is just a whim that some people have and entitled to but please don't give us the BS that a bow is as good as a rifle. | |||
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Mark, you are correct. I do believe that Adam has done quite a few bowhunts. When he was younger anyway :^) Why do they have a minimum of .375 for rifle? The same reason they have a minimum of a bow capable of generating 80 ft lbs of KE with a 750gr. projectile. That's the law. Yes, I am saying (not speculating) that a properly equipped, experienced bowhunter is just as deadly and efficient as any rifle hunter with any rifle. Range limitations, animal disposition, target angle, flight path, are all greatly exaggerated for the bowhunter but if all the proper conditions are met and the arrow stikes the kill zone it will be just as dead as if it were hit with a howitzer. Bullets and arrows kill by two totally different means so if you don't know anything about the subject why speculate and hypothesize? Listen, I'm not defending bowhunting but just telling you what is true and what is just hyperbole, myth, and outright wrong. If you want to know about the killing and penetrating abilities of broadheads I suggest you look at the Ashby study for a more definitive and conclusive study about their effectiveness on DG and not just post what you "feel." Broadheads are as diverse and different as bullets and different types, designs, blade bevels, etc. all work differently. | |||
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Come on, Ken, who's being silly now? It ain't about whether an arrow is "just as deadly" or can kill anything "just as dead" or that it will work like a champ under ideal textbook circumstances. It's about what kind of weapon can be relied upon to kill a big, adrenalized and dangerous animal, right there and right now, under SNAFU'ed circumstances, before that animal can manage to kill the hunter or someone else. Nice to know that the arrow-struck beast is dead but doesn't know it - I suppose - but that would not be much comfort to the survivors if it killed the hunter or one or more of his companions before it finally bled out and actually died. As I've said, I have no issues if others want to risk that fate for themselves, or even if they choose to subject willing companions to the same risks, but as long as a rifleman with a proper DG rifle is along, please don't call it "bowhunting." It ain't. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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The animal initially shot by bow hunter and finished by PH rifle, cannot make the record books, The animal initially shot by rifle hunter and finished by PH rifle, is permitted in the record books. ...makes one laugh, considering both hunters failed.
Yep, Its called DG hunting for good reason, so lets allow individuals to decide how potentially dangerous/challenging they prefer it to be. The hypocrisy that abounds in hunting is hilarious.... -don't shoot from a vehicle, [walk minimum 50 yd from it first], so one can tell the hunting fraternity that you were ethical and sporting.... - Wounded DG, its accepted that it can be a good idea to use a vehicle to chase it up, to make DG hunting safer for all involved.. -However use a helicopter to chase up wounded DG [that may prove even safer], and your considered by many as unsporting and unethical... -But bow hunting DG is not recommended because it too frought with risk /danger. So lets see,.....somethings are considered too safe/lazy by some and other things to dangerous/risky.....................oh brother...  If you feel bow hunting DG [with/without rifle backup] is for you, fine! If you feel it appropriate to persue wounded DG by foot, vehicle or Heli, fine! | |||
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Apparently hunting season is a loooonnnng way off. | |||
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Just help me out here Michael as I don't seem to understand. If the PH has n rifle in his hands when a bow hunter shoots a DG animal then it was not bow hunted. If the PH has a shotgun in his hands when hunting a Leopard - is it then a bird hunt? If a vehicle is used when following a Leopard in the Kalahari - is it then a roadkill? When the trackers carry spears, axes, knives etc and the PH a gun is it then a combination hunt? Please.....who is being silly now? What is wrong with a client shooting an animal with an arrow and it dies? Was it not the client that hunted it well? Can you say that he did not hunt it? By the way.... Who said that a bow and arrow can not stop a charge? IT CAN!! It is the hunter that can not shoot it so well that limits it. We have shot many Buffalo full frontal with an arrow and they seem to have died fast enough within sight. Any good setup will shoot through the vitals of any cat from the front. It is only the Phachyderms that is a problem. Saying that.....how many clients can really put a bullet into the vitals of a charging leopard at 5 meters with a rifle and do it consistently? I say again. The weapon that you carry is not the best one that you have. Your brain is and some seem to not to know that. Fritz Rabe Askari Adventures & Fritz Rabe Bow-hunting | |||
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 I think we now have our African version of Shootaway! | |||
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"Saying that.....how many clients can really put a bullet into the vitals of a charging leopard at 5 meters with a rifle and do it consistently?" Not many, if any, and a client should never be put in that situation either, for the PH who does would be brainless to do so and I am sure most clients would accept being kept out of harm's way. PS: A semi auto 10gauge loaded with buckshot is a good substitute for the brains you talk about - try one sometime - much better results than a rifle or a bow  | |||
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I would LOVE to have one. The problem with that gun in most African countries is the government. They think that we pose a threat to national security if we tote them so it is just about impossible to get a licence for one. So for now we have to make do with what they will allow us to have. Fritz Rabe Askari Adventures & Fritz Rabe Bow-hunting | |||
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Oh come on, Tarzan stops charges with a recurve.  ~Ann   | |||
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I think you are quite right Todd! Fairgame called it from the start, this guy is a poser. I think this guy Fritz Rabe and fujotupu are one and the same person, and I doubt Fritz and his alterego have ever hunted dangerous game with any weapon, because I suspect both are the same child! ....................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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There are quite a few PHs in Africa who say the only thing a 10 ga shotgun with buck shot i,s better than, is a smaller ga shotgun with buckshot! Buck shot is the most ineffective bullet type ever invented! They don't penetrate well at all! In Texas even most counties outlawed buck shot for little 80 pound whitetail deer because it wounds too many deer that escape and are found dead later. If a shotgun is used it must be loaded with slug ammo. Now if your shotgun is a leagle slide action loaded with Breneke 12 ga slugs you may have something. I certainly don't want to go against a 200 pound mad, wounded leopard with a shotgun, and don't even mention a lion, loaded with buckshot. There is a long time history in Africa that says a very large percentage of PHs who have been mauled by wounded lepopard during a follow-up were useing shotguns with buckshot! You will find that few PHs, who hunt a lot of leopard, use shotguns for follow-up. I cant think of even one who would attempt that with a bow. Most PHs, I know, are smarter than that. If you could own one, the best weapon for follow-up of leopard would be a simi-auto FN FAL .308 Nato with a 20 round magazine. With what you are allowed in most of Africa give me a 375 H&H flanged double rifle with a ghost ring sight, and/or a laser and light hanging under the barrel for night follow-up. However it wouldn't be a shotgun unless the only choice I had was that or a BOW! ..........................................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Michael, you can tit for tat all day long but yours is conjecture and not fact based. You seem to only have an argument regarding safety of the hunting party but as I said before and you seemed to ignore the safest guy in the hunting party will be the bowhunter. Rifle hunting clients have shot their PHs, that is fact. Rifle hunting clients have shot their trackers, that also is fact. Bowhunting clients have never done either. You can't pre-load a bow, you can't carry it loaded, you can't squeeze off a round in panic. It's far too methodical for any of that. I am sure you are F. Selous incarnate but most guys don't have any experience in such a situation and panic sets in. That's the simple truth. Your safety concerns are baseless in that regard but I will concede that two guns are certainly better than one provided both are toted by experienced, cool headed individuals. It is for this reason that any bowhunts for DG I offer are always conducted with a primary and backup PH. Finally, if the client is using a bow, has to get himself in position, wait for the shot, execute the shot then it is, obviously, bowhunting regardless of whether the PH or PHs have a rifle or a towed 105mm. If the rifle comes into play at any stage it is no longer a bowhunt. Everyone recognizes that. While I respect everyone's opinion on the subject the truth is that bowhunting DG is not for everyone, client or PH but it is legal, totally doable, and executed by many, many bowhunters annually. If it's not your cup of tea, sip from another cup but don't perpetuate myth and half-truths. | |||
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I thought I’d seen every idiotic response to the concept of stopping power of weapons, but this thread has taken the cake! Anyone with a brain cell that works knows the bow is a deadly weapon, but requires time to take effect! When stopping a charge by a wounded and Adeline soaked member of Africa’s dangerous big five, time is a commodity that one has little of. An arrow kills by loss of blood, and a cape buffalo with his heart torn to tatters can run hundreds of yards before dying. That is if he decides to run. If however he decides to take you on, you better have more that a stick and string to stop him. Anyone who believes a bow is enough to reliably stop a Cape buffalo charge is a sandwich short of a picnic, and has his head firmly planted in his butt! That is fine, however, because that way it take little time to kiss his ass goodby! ……………………………………………………….because here is his next residence!... ...........................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Ken and Fritz, Don't waste your time with these guys. A couple of them have influence in our sport and they are just alienating/condemning a large group of passionate hunters, and that's a shame. "If you are not working to protect hunting, then you are working to destroy it". Fred Bear | |||
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I think you are wrong about Fritz. He has a host of satisfied clients who speak very highly of him. If people stop not picking and take things in the spirit they were written there really is nothing to get worked up about. Dogman is right. Its time to simply put this one to bed. I for one know that Bowhunting of DG will continue regardless anyway so who gives a rats ass whats written on a forum | |||
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MacD37:
Really ? Why don't you put it on a poll to the PHs on the forum and see who prefers a 10 gauge semi auto loaded with 00 or LG versus a rifle on a wounded leopard, which by the way is tackled mostly in the dark as the highest percentage of leopards are shot in the late evening. Those few Phs that did get mauled probably botched the shot/s; were using a d/b shotgun; the quality of ammo was not of the recommended values (low brass). | |||
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Something like this can only happen in the internet  | |||
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....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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I do share your sentiment when applied literally. But I also feel that Fritz is communicating in his second language and may have expressed his thoughts in the wrong way. Either way, Happy New Year to all. | |||
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Good on you Mac, for someone who has had little or no experience with African DG hunting you sure profess to know a lot more than most of us who have had the misfortunes of being in certain situations with wounded leopards. I don't have a semi auto but so far have come out on top with my o/u on all the wounded leopards I have had to root out - as far as permits for semi autos are concerned, am not sure you are correct (most certainly not a problem in TZ). A pattern between 6-8 inches at 12 - 15 feet is a whole lot better than one of less than 1 inch at any distance and better to have 50%+ of those 40mm balls hitting their mark with every shot than non at all! Have a Happy 2012 | |||
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PS opinion revised: I have been told by Fujotupu that Fritz is the real thing so I must assume that he is simply a man of strong belief in the stopping power of a bow and arrow on dangerous game. I have no doubt about on the killing power, but I surly disagree with it being a stopper, and I believe it to be an almost certain cause of often follow-ups by the PH. ....................................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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What gives you the idea you know anything about me? It seems, FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS ABSOLUTELY NO KNOWLEDGE WHERE I'VE BEEN OR WHAT I'VE DONE,you assume a lot!
Well I know enough to know that a 40MM bullet will not fit in a 10 ga shotgun barrel but if it would it would certainly stop a leopard, and the guy who fired it as well! ..............................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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This you have repeatedly stated yourself more often than not. If I am wrong pray enlighten us on your African DG experiences, such as the ones being argued about. (Quote) 40MM bullet will not fit in a 10 ga shotgun barrel (Quote) Very true and my mistake for inadvertently typing 'mm' instead of 'cal' and in which case I correct to read as 7mm pellets to your 40 cal balls. Good Day Professor! | |||
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Fujotupu: Some people really do not need advive from a PH. I for one understood what you said RE: the shotgun pellets. Caracal: Before you throw your own name in the mud please contact SABA (South African Bowhunting Association) and PHASA (Professional Hunters Association of South Africa) and find out if I am who I say. (I do doubt that you have the balls to do so and to then post a reply of your findings here) Mac: Please re-read what I posted in context. I never said that I stopped or would try to stop any charge with a bow. I like to keep my life and license as a PH and therefore I (as stated in the beginning) carry my rifle with me on any follow-up. You seem to know what you are talking about when it comes to wounded DG. I have been around DG my whole life but seem to have it all wrong. Maybe you can help me out by coming over and presenting a course or something to us that do not know anything. Fritz Rabe Askari Adventures & Fritz Rabe Bow-hunting | |||
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After three extensive sets of bow hunting trials we legalised bow hunting in Zimbabwe- except for elephant, buff, hippo and croc- they require a special permit and are not regarded as a regular hunt. The reason was simple- we had too many failures. It is like folk using a .243 on elephant- Broadside at the right angle it works every time- frontal...it failes. I drafted the Zim law (SI 11) on bowhunting and have subsiquently guided several bow hunts for lion, elephant and buff...and I am happy that I made the right call. A bow is a marginal tool for the job and the PH needs to be aware of all the limitations- and preferably be a bow hunter himself. I have guided black powder and handgun hunts and I can assure you a .44mag or .30-30 from a TC is a far more effective anti Elephant/buff tool than any bow. As a by the by...for the film posted by Ann my dad was the stand in for the US moovie star on shooting an elephant with a bow. Ira Larivers, editor of African Hunter magazine has that bow now- I was never strong enough to string it let alone pull it. An 1800grn arrow at about 10 yards worked fine on the elephant for the film but I have seen arrows from modern compownd bows fail on broadside on both buff and ele (and yes, they made the minimum 100lb draw weight stipulated on the special permit) I doubt I will ever guide another bow hunt on DG- there are many more fun ways to hunt. | |||
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Fritz, There is a misunderstanding. I know that you have a name in the hunting industry and it can only happen in the internet that someone from texas tells a fulltime ph how to hunt DG. I just don't understand why every second thread has to end in a childish fight | |||
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If there was a misunderstanding from your part, then I apologise for jumping on you. It just seems odd to me that on this particular forum, every time I post something I have to prove myself. I do not and will not apologise for what I achieved in my hunting career. I devoted my life to the hunting of Big game with a Bow and Arrow and will continue to do so. Ganyana does not agree with me and that is his right in his experience. He however does not badmouth me like some on this forum. He has his views and I have mine. I believe that there is a place for DG bow hunting (if done correctly) and will keep on fighting for it. Fritz Rabe Askari Adventures & Fritz Rabe Bow-hunting | |||
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Clearly there are some guys that feel threatened by bow hunters!! Why not post the same post at the bow hunting forum Fairgame? Conservation through Hunting | |||
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Gentlemen I’d like to clear some things up for the rank and file here! First I apologies to Rabe for doubting his experience, that was a mistake that humans make on occasion, and I don’t think anyone here is immune to that failing! As someone told me, he is posting not in his first language, and may not have expressed himself well. I don’t know about that, but I certainly did not read it that way, maybe that is my mistake, if so I’m wrong. I was not trying to say bow hunting shouldn’t be done on any game! The only thing I was trying to get across, with little success it seems, was only to point out the draw backs to that activity on very tough and dangerous game animals like Buffalo, and elephant, exactly the same thing Ganyana said, the weapon is not only marginal for that use, but almost a pipedream to even consider it as a stopper. Rabe if you will read what you posted below the bold print passages are where I got the idea that you may advocate the bow as a stopper. Maybe I misread it, but if I didn’t you can see quite plainly why I took exception to your post. I see now that your meaning was that it is POSSIBLE under very slim circumstances, I’m sure a .22 lr would stop an buffalo on occasion, but I wouldn’t bet my life on that fact. The bold print ending in “IT CAN!!!” then followed by you on the frontal hit on buffalo having died “within sight” doesn’t seem much like a stop to me, but then what do I know because I live in Texas! What a ridiculous statement! I would say there are thousands of people in RSA, and all of Africa that have never even seen a cape buffalo outside a park or zoo. What in hell does it matter where a person lives to decide if he knows something about hunting dangerous game, or weapons used in that undertaking? All I’m saying now is, if this is a misunderstanding on my part than I apologies, But to assume I have no knowledge of dangerous game, and proper EFFECTIVE weapons for them, is an assumption exactly the same as that you accuse me of making with my opinion on you from what you wrote. So you see I’m not the only one making assumptions here!
….. AND I never said you tried to do a follow-up with a bow, and I never thought you would be that stupid. What I did say was the bow hunter by the simple fact that he is using marginal weapon, puts the PH at risk because he has to follow-up the buffalo or elephant the client wounds and allows him get into the bush, and the client can’t be involved in that follow-up with his bow! This leaves the PH alone without back-up from the client! That is FACT straight from TEXAS, and even DUMB TEXANS know it is so, and so do you!
Again folks I have zero problem with anyone who wants to hunt anything that walks, crawls, or flies with a bow, all I set out to do is shine the light of day on the draw-backs that comes along with that practice. I simply do not understand why anyone would take exception to that thought! In any event this DUMB TEXAN who has never been anyplace and knows absolutely nothing according to the fair-haired three here, is signing off on this one. The fact is I love Africa, and their dangerous game is my passion, and I have taken quite a bit of them, but at 75 yrs of age I doubt I’ll ever be back and that is very sad. All I can do now is sit in my trophy room and dream of times gone by and contact other African hunters on the internet, and that is becoming a chore it seems. My only regret is I didn’t go to Africa before the age of 45 years in 1982, and the first two animals I took were both of the dangerous type,and both one shot kills with a MARGENAL weapon a rifle, and I have never been on a safari where dangerous game was not on license ! I was most likely hunting dangerous game in Africa before some PHs got out of diapers. I wish you all long life and a happy new year in 2012!  Here's my next hunting field ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Ken and Fritz, Well put and I fully understand your passion and profession for the sport of bow hunting and I have hunted along side with the best of them. My point was simply that the bowhunter will miss out on the finale of the DG hunt if the animal is wounded, which is quite common. Therefore your bow hunt stops there. For the man with gun the real hunting has just started. There are very few PH's who will conclude a hunt and we will only intervene when necessary and often with the help of the paying hunter. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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You are quite correct in your last statement Andrew. That is the choice that the prospective client has to make before he hunts. As for the rest......No comment anymore. Fritz Rabe Askari Adventures & Fritz Rabe Bow-hunting | |||
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If I was after DG with a bow I would most certainly have my 458 with a gun bearer that were the opportunity to arise where things got ugly at the very least I could back the PH up. As per most of the guys I know who regularly shoot DG with the bow, there is seldom a charge straight after the shot. Normally on the follow up if you don't leave the animal in peace to die etc. As I always try to milk every drop out of a hunt, I would be in there making the follow up alongside the PH with my rifle. This is due to two ideals. 1. I clean up my own mess and 2. I don't like the idea of leaving an animal "to get sick". It simply does not gel with my conscience. It is important though that we embrace all who hunt and who take the time to come to Africa. So long as there is a PH out there who is happy to accompany them on the type of hunt they choose, there is no harm done and more importantly conservation is being paid for. Fritz, it will be good to meet you one day. If you are ever coming through Natal down the N2 please let me know, I would enjoy having you as a guest in my home. | |||
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Just for the record. I sent MacD37 a PM where I apologised to him if I said anything in an unapropriate way to him personally. My opinions RE Bow hunting is not just an opinion. It is from years of doing it and over 800 animals that I have hunted and guided with a bow. Therefore I sometimes come over strongly when discussing bow hunting related issues. AHQ: I shall gladly visit you when I head down East again. Send me and e-mail with your contacts and I shall make a plan. Fritz Rabe Askari Adventures & Fritz Rabe Bow-hunting | |||
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Something the gun hunters are missing is that the sound of the gun really puts an animal into overdrive. The fact that they often don't even know they have been hit calms things down a bit. Also knowing how arrows kill is important for the PH and must be communicated in advance. After a good hit you must leave the animal to bleed out plain and simple. Most of us bowhunters have learned that the hard way but I'd hate for the PH to be learning it on my hunt. I was talking to Monty Browning a few years back regarding his DG hunting and the rino he shot although mortally wounded was close to the park boundary and in danger of dying on the wrong side. Monty finished the hunt with the PH's gun and it was obviously the right choice. That animal isn't listed as a bowkill due to Monty's high ethical stance. A lot of other archery "greats" might not have the same moral fortitude. I'd love nothing more than to hunt DG with my bow but I can't draw enough weight so it's beyond me. It's important to realize ones' limitations and the limitations of a bow. | |||
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Very true words spoken. I am sure that you could draw enough bow for a Leopard or Lion hunt. Any new 60lb Compound with a good cut-on-impact broad head will be more than enough to shoot a relaxed cat. Fritz Rabe Askari Adventures & Fritz Rabe Bow-hunting | |||
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Fritz, I shoot a longbow so I'm at even more of a disadvantage than the wheelie guys. For some reason I've been thinking about this discussion a lot today. It saddens me to see hunters putting down others choice of hunting method and all the infighting that goes on. I think that archery hunters and double rifle afficionados have much in common. A hunter with a double rifle getting to within 12 yards of an elephant and shooting it with a gun that might easily be 100 years old? That's someone who likes to challenge himself in the same ways that a bowhunter does. They are both putting themselves and the PH in harms way in the pursuit of their sport. Both might also need the PH to sort things out in a hurry. It would be easier and safer to blast the elephant in the lungs from a couple hundred yards and why not? We have the modern equipment to do it, scopes, nice bolt actions, modern bullets etc. Why use a double rifle that is at its best at 25-50 yards? I think that because some of us have the genetic wiring that makes us want to do things in a way that make the process more important than the trophy. When we challenge ourselves it makes the hunt that much sweeter. I'd rather have one bowkilled animal than a truckload of rifle kills and when I look at my little trophy room I know I've truly earned every one of them. | |||
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Sir. Do not down-grade yourself because of the Trad-bow that you use. I guided two clients already that have hunted Lioness with recurve bows. If you have the will then you will practice and motivate yourself until a dream becomes reality. Regards Fritz Rabe Askari Adventures & Fritz Rabe Bow-hunting | |||
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Totally agree. I do not think that we rifle hunters are putting down your sport but rather questioning the final outcome of a DG hunt and the strong possibility of a follow up. If as some have stated the sportsman then swaps his tools in order to complete the hunt then that is fine with me. Wounding is a common trait in bowhunting and more so from those who are not expert. From my experience the distance ranged is critical and often this is where things go wrong. Unlike a bullet if the arrow does not quite find it's mark then the damage is negligible which is a concern especially when dealing with Lion or Buffalo, and not let us forget your bear. You have to have balls to take on those brown bears of yours, one on one, with only a bag of arrows. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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