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Just saw this movie yesterday afternoon and was wondering if any fellow AR members had seen the it and what they thought. I thought it was a good movie but wondered what some of the AR members from Africa thought.Granted I am not well versed in RSA history but wanted to ask the question anyway.How much was truthful and how much was hollywood add on.With Clint Eastwood directing I thought it was worth the look.I apoligize if this is not the right forum but thought I would get better feedback here than in other areas. Thanks Wesley | ||
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I can provide feedback after Friday night.... Apprently its very good? I hear Freeman was OK as Mandela but Damon was excellent? Cheers | |||
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I am planning to watch it...soon (babysitter permitting). I will be sure to post feedback once I have watched it. | |||
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Been wondering the same thing since its release last week. Ready for whatever spin hollywood puts on Freeman/Mandela but read a quote from Damon to the effect "I know nothing of rugby" I hope Eastwood made sure he LEARNED a bit before shooting progressed! An old man sleeps with his conscience, a young man sleeps with his dreams. | |||
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That ironic, I was just told by a Kiwi friend that Damon used to play rugby himslef, hence his suitability for the role..however i am not sure where he got that info! | |||
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Saw it over the weekend and thought they did a pretty good job for a movie. I thought Freeman did an excelent job, maybe not an Oscar, but one never knows. Saw a number of areas of Cape Town that I had visited, so that was a plus for me. Don Life Member SCI &, NRA | |||
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Tried to get some feedback here earlier -- see thread at the 'fire. http://www.24hourcampfire.com/...php/topics/3573436/1 _______________________ | |||
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I have not seen it yet but will. My RSA white friends tell me Mandela was nothing but a terrorist no different from those that downed the World Trade Center in NYC. They say he should have been hung and at any other time would have been. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I'd say your friends are very wrong indeed. If it hadn't been for Mandela, things would have been considerably worse when the time of change arrived as sooner or later, it had to. His 1st wife however, might be a very different story. Politics in Africa are never easy and are always complex but let's face it, there was more chance of pigs flying than thing continuing as they had done in the past. A good example of how he helped the change over of power is the truth and reconciliation commission..... without that, SA would have seen a blood bath and if anyone expects Africa to be like the western world, they're always gonna be sadly disappointed. FWIW, The movie hasn't arrived in my neck of the woods yet, but it's a helluva good book! | |||
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Not trying to nitpick, but Winnie was his second wife. STAY IN THE FIGHT! | |||
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Y'all will just have to disagree on that one. They are multi-generation RSA families and they feel the oposite from you! In fact talked to one today and he still feels Mandela should have been hanged and was a common terrorist. He set of bombs and killed folks didn't he? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Politics in Africa can be very cloudy. Seemingly good guys turn out to be the oposite and bad guys are often sponsored by foreign countries for wrong reasons. I am sure that there are claims pro and con Mandela that have validity. As for the movie... made me so homesick for a couple days, I bet it will fetch some awards. On another note I receintly got "faith like potatoes" and plan to watch it soon. It is a "faith film" about a guy in RSA. | |||
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Nonsense! He has his failings for sure and yes he did eventually feel the need for militant action but so do many of our so-called heroic world leaders. He is an astute and patient leader. I for one wish he was younger. Common terrorist...not at all, what on earth made them think that? I am NOT a bleeding heart and liked FW de Klerk as he had brains and accumen but PW Botha was a kiniving, lying, conceited bastard and was half the man Mandela is. Mandela is worthy of some criticism...of course, he is not an infallible god but as far as presidents/icons and leaders go is damn good! | |||
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Mandela has shortcomings and surely took part in "illegal acts" but in the end RSA for all her shortcomings is a much better place than most in Africa. Few would argue it! Whatever he may have been or done before, I think Mandela deserves most of the credit for this. At any rate it is good that a big budget international movie has FINALLY come out that does not villanize all white South Africans as opressors and bigots. Maybe we're turning a corner that will at last bring South Africa and South Africans - black, white and brown - the credit and acclaim they deserve in the international community. It is long overdue. An old man sleeps with his conscience, a young man sleeps with his dreams. | |||
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A more incorrect assessment of Mandela is hard to fathom. | |||
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I assume the title was stolen from William E. Henley's poem? | |||
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I think we're about to find out, if anyone can believe Holder... Story I heard was he got caught with bombs on the way to plant them. If that's incorrect, someone please correct me. | |||
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What a crock of shit!!! Have you any idea what it was like to live in South Africa as a non - white. You were treated as a 2nd class citizen in every respect!! Mandela was the face of change that eventually came and I'm concerened about your views considering the respect he gets globally from just about everybody!! He must be superhuman to accomodate all races once he came into power after the abuse he went through! Your friends are obviously racist scum or have had their land taken away from them!!! | |||
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This is from Wikipedia, so take it at face value:
One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. Call him what you will but one thing is certain; he changed the history of South Africa for the better. | |||
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No offense guys, this isn't a winnable arguement. Without a common ground, two parties won't be able to reach any agreement. On one side, you are a member of a repressed caste of people who only received relief from Mandela's efforts. On the other side, you have victims and the families of victims who suffered harm as Mandela's anti aparteid groups used violence to further their means. This is the problem of the politics where the ends justify the means. It is possible for one person to be both hero and villian. In the mean time, be good to your fellow man, especially in light of the holidays. John | |||
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Saw the movie last night and it was emotional for me. If it was not, your heart is not in the right place as a South African IMHO. Friend of a friend was one of those white bodyguards that were assigned from Special Branch to protect Madiba, and Clint Eastwood got most of it spot on. I got a phone call urging me to go and see it. The only thing that bugged me a bit was that they did not manage to capture the spirit of the game of Rugby. I have watched countless Baseball and American Football movies, and enjoyed them all, without exeption. They struggled a bit with getting it right with the rugby. Damon did his best as always, but Francois was a much more flamboyant and inspiring leader to his men. All in all a great story well told. I enjoyed it, and felt proud. Any South African that feels otherwise do not deserve to live in SA. So by the way, the little tittbits about how this "terrorist" interferred into his own party affairs to not allienate white South Africans, and keep the Springbok emblem.....IT's ALL TRUE, so you be the judge of that banner! Charl van Rooyen Owner Infinito Travel Group www.infinito-safaris.com charl@infinito-safaris.com Cell: +27 78 444 7661 Tel: +27 13 262 4077 Fax:+27 13 262 3845 Hereford Street 28A Groblersdal 0470 Limpopo R.S.A. "For the Infinite adventure" Plains Game Dangerous Game Bucket List Specialists Wing-Shooting In House Taxidermy Studio In House Dip and Pack Facility In House Shipping Service Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris Flight bookings "I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?" South Africa Tanzania Uganda | |||
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BigBoreCore, Yes, you're right he did have another wife that had slipped my mind. I was trying to differentiate between Winnie and his Mozambican wife. - Sorry for the confusion. Regarding the rest of it, as I said, African politics are always murky but let's face it, the old regime was flawed at the roots and history has proved that it was inevitable such a system would eventually fail..... and it did, as it has everywhere else in the world where such similar systems have existed. I don't think anyone would argue that if Mandela had not been there at the changeover of power, SA would have become a bloodbath. I'm helluva glad it didn't, because I was driving across Johannesburg at the time. A few years ago, slightly against my better judgement, I read his book 'A Long Walk To Freedom' and have to say, it suprised me. I guess it has a degree of image cleaning but I'd recommend it to anyone who wants to know more about the man and his activities. As for the current system, it's sure as hell not perfect but it's the one we have to live with now and I for one think it's a considerably fairer system than the previous one. Admittedly, it's a super mega bugly stuff up when it comes to organisation but hey, welcome to Africa! I do have hopes that things will improve for the next generation though. As has been said, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Interesting how most comments here from those who live in SA are reasonably pro Mandela and many of those from people who do not live in SA are anti Mandela. | |||
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The true hero in the changes that brought about the "new" South Africa was F.W. de Klerk. At least two years before Nelson Mandela was released, I had the opportunity to hunt pronghorn near Lander, Wyoming with a member of de Klerk's government, and was told that Apartheid could not continue and that Nelson Mandela from would be released from the prison on Robben Island and groomed so that he could run for president in the country's first multi-racial election. Everything that followed came to pass because de Kerk and his people carefully engineered it. Bill Quimby | |||
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Is that anything like the black racist scum in Zimbabwe who have murdered whites and driven them off their land? That would piss me off. It all depends on just whose ox is getting gored. Before you start screaming about racists, I would look north and east at Mad Bob's paradise in the sun. The jury's still out on South Africa. I wish everyone luck. It's going to take a lot of it. | |||
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One can certainly argue that he was a terrorist. Consider that the US Department of Defense defines terrorism as "the calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological". It is not in dispute that he committed himself to the violent overthrow of a standing government. Of course, the "he" in this case could stand for Mandela, who failed to effect the peaceful eradication of apartheid through political change; or it could be George Washington and his band of revolutionaries who used fear and violence to coerce the government of King George II into leaving the Colonies; or perhaps Menachem Begin (former Israeli Prime Minister) who, as leader of the Irgun, used bombings to intimidate the UK into retreating from Palestine. As to his imprisonment, Mandela was charged with the sabotage of government and military facilities - which he admitted - and plotting the invasion of South Africa by a foreign power - which he denied. He was opposed to the taking of lives, but in favor of attacking the instruments of apartheid. In his closing statement to the court Mandela said, "during my lifetime I have dedicated myself to the struggle of the African people. I have fought against white domination, and I have fought against black domination. I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony and with equal opportunities. It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to achieve. But if need be, it is an ideal for which I am prepared to die". If these are the principles of a terrorist, then Mandela has good company with the likes of John Jay, Alexander Hamilton, and the other rabble-rousing Founding Fathers. Mandela was certainly not perfect - how many politicians are - but he was the right man at the right time who, through his force of character, almost certainly kept South Africa from self-destructing when apartheid eventually collapsed. Kim Merkel Double .470 NE Whitworth Express .375 H&H Griffin & Howe .275 Rigby Winchester M70 (pre-64) .30-06 & .270 "Cogito ergo venor" René Descartes on African Safari | |||
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That was the exact reaction I expected! There is no way in hell that you can compare Bob to Mandela, in the same way that you can not compare Zim to SA. Zim is a sovereign state, and dont be mislead into thinking that the rest of Southern Africa operates like that! FYI our Botswana president is openly crtical of Mugabe as anyone in their right mind would be. What jury??? As Shakari has said, things are not perfect but SA is surely on the right path! Terrorist is a very strong word and I was merely showing my displeasure at the use of it. By the way, my farm in the Gwaai area of Zim was taken away 3 years ago and is currently occupied 'war vets', and when I stopped to have a look a couple months back it was just about ruined with the fences torn up and everything snared!!! So dont tell me about Mugabe, I know | |||
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I can't wait to see the movie. It was truly an inspiring day. I am a dispossessed white Zimbo. I also used to follow the line that Mandela was nothing more than a terrorist. I have had cause to eat those words a million times since he was released. He is probably the greatest man Africa has ever produced, and God knows I wish we had had someone of his calibre to take over in our country. | |||
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You might also watch the Movie "Mandela and DeKlerk" 1997 staring Sidney Poitier and Michal Cain. | |||
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Thanks Shakari(steve) and Infinito I knew your insight would be helpful.I am sure the arguement on Mandela has facts for both sides(pro and cons) and the truth is somewhere in the middle.Again I thought it was very good and would encourage anyone to go and watch it. Thanks Wesley | |||
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And it is OK to have had their land taken from them??? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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He changed the history all right...just as Mugabe has changed the history of Zim. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Perhaps you could tell us why you are of that opinion and what you base it on? | |||
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I hope you don't live in the same as I!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Anytime that a person's property is taken from them in the name of giving it back to it rightful owner or when one own's a business and he is forced to take on a 51% partner just because...that ain't right. And I don't care who calls me a racist or scum or whatever...in my book it is socialism and eventually it will go the same way as apartheid...which I too believe was wrong. Ian Smith and his parliment probably had it the most correct but they were never given the chance to play it out. Mostly due to our president Jimmie Carter and South Africa's post-apatheid government. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I don't completely understand that comment. Are you suggesting that Mugabe and Mandela have both pursued those same policies? Mugabe undoubtedly has pursued illegal land and property grabbing policies along with mass murder of the Matabele and many other people(s) and no end of other theft, corruption and innumerable human rights abuses etc. However, you appear to think that Mandela has pursued the same policies which isn't the case at all.
Rhodesia became Zimbabwe and Ian Smith retired some considerable years before SA had a post apartheid Government, not after and therefore SAs post apartheid Govt couldn't have had any bearing on Ian Smith and his parliament because it didn't exist at that time. | |||
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I know people in RSA in which had a black partner imposed into their businesses as a 51% partner. You tell me??? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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So in 1980 RSA had a pro apartheid government? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Apartheid ran from 1948 - 1994. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...rica_under_apartheid
Sorry, I missed this one. This doesn't apply to all companies and whilst I'm unsure of exact rules, I think you'll find it applies only to companies that want to tender for Govt contracts and even then, is not compulsory but those that do have a black partner get a degree of favourable treatment when it comes to Gvt contracts. I believe they score it on a points system of some kind. FWIW, I know an awful lot of guys who own their own companies here in SA and I don't know of any that have a black partner. | |||
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