The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting "Outfitters- Offered and Discounted Hunts Forum" getting more trafficGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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The Outfitters Offered and Discounted Hunts forum is quickly getting filled with most posts lasting less than a week before ending up on page 2. What is the feeling out there? Is 2015 a bad year for bookings? How was the DSC and SCI shows? Prices seem to be coming down based on the advertising here, or is it just because this forum is becoming so popular that it is filling up? | ||
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Oil and energy prices should have an impact on hunting - especially in Africa and other high dollar hunts. 50 percent drop in commodity prices and 75 percent drop in equity prices will have an impact. On top of that Russian decimated. Euro in the dumps. Far more oil guys hunt than Sillicon valley and Wall Street guys. I expect the discounted cancelled hunt section to be busy. Mike | |||
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Group hunts in wild Africa are always a bargain. Sharing a hunt with a buddy is also an option. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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+1 If that damn Biebs can organize something - I look forward to hubting this year with you. Mike | |||
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Mike that Biebs has Blaser fever mate. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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All that German precision engineering is wasted on his poor shooting abilities. Hunting with him I can't even use a fine double cause I am always backing him up with way too much ammo. Do an ar group hunt - all I want shoot is a bush pig. Mike | |||
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Well safaris priced in dollars just got what...10-15% more expensive for Europeans and 100% more expensive for Russians over the last four or five years? Granted, I suspect both of these customer bases didn't historically amount to anywhere near the American safari demand, but there are some indicators even right here on AR that might seem to indicate that the US demand isn't close to it's pre-financial crisis levels either! What's interesting to me is that some of the postings on the "discounted hunt" forum lately seem to have prices HIGHER than one might expect. Are outfitters irrationally trying to make up lost revenue when demand is down? Personally, I don't see a lot of call for $30,000 leopard hunts or $15,000 buffalo hunts these days...but it could be just me. | |||
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The U.S. base is core and oil and energy vol will impact it far more than anything else. When an all in buffalo hunt (in zim prime areas) w/ taxidermy and everything approaches the price off a f-150 it's has gone to far in my opinion. This hunting activity is high discretionary and high elastic regardless of what people say - no one needs to hunt Africa or other high dollar price hunts to fullfill life's basic and core necessities. Mike | |||
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HAHAHA1 "precision German engineering"?? Blaser?? I bet Paul Mauser is rolling in his grave, that his country is actually offering such a piece of junk as a firearm!  | |||
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Two sides to that coin, of course. The big dollar hunter working in the oil sector sees his income decline but the average consumer in America, with lower prices at the pump, sees more money in his pocket. I wonder then if the demand for premium hunts might fall and budget hunts actually increase a bit? Of course the other argument is "premium hunts will always sell because rich is always rich to one degree or another". The cancellation $4000 a day Tanz hunt being advertised on the forum right now might provide imply otherwise.  | |||
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I think the savings for the average consumer is great in a macro economic sense but irrelevant to African and high dollar price hunting. The decimation in the energy sector and some emerging markets (russia) is relevant. For all the really rich self made people I know in the US - they still value the dollar. They worked pretty damn hard to earn it. Why I think the $15K charters in TZ rubs people the wrong way. My view is beneath Tanzania high dollar price image is a lot of weakness and business model fragility. I think Zim will have the same issues in a few years. The prices (mainly due to predatory taxes by local governments/politicians) have gone up too much. The discounted hunt section will be show if I am right or the good times are still going strong. Mike | |||
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You got that one right Mike Right on the money Most of the African governments forget that customer is the king and if they go after the golden goose they will have no more golden eggs I agree with the notion of $ 15,000 for buff hunt is overboard $ 50,000 for elephant seems rather steep, but then I only look at it from consumers point of view " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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What hunts are not priced in US dollars these days? | |||
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IMO,the economy has been getting worst and worst for years.It is just simply getting very difficult to part with money.Also I find that people are getting smarter and smarter with how they spend it.Businesses have to be in top shape to survive.IMO putting up the price on something because you had a slow year or years does not work for very long and there is a back lash. | |||
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On the African continent, and when booking direct obviously, I have seen several Central African hunts priced in Euros. Given that, there are probably decent opportunities to be had these days for those of us earning in dollars. | |||
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Booking a hunt in the francophone African states would likely get you a quote in EURO. | |||
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Ouch - Tendrams beat me to it.  | |||
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I've noticed on the discount/offered hunt forum that there are quite a few new African operators posting hunts. It seems to me that they have heard about the free advertising available on AR. I think the ever increasing price of African hunts has also had an effect. Wasn't too long ago that South African buffalo hunts were very expensive compared to other countries. Now they seem to be less. I've shot two Cape Buffalo and I'd like to do another such hunt. One of my cousins has also expressed an interest in such a hunt. However, the prices for such hunts are simply too high. A decent Buff hunt in Zim or Moz will cost at least $15K. Combined with airfare, road transfer/charter flight, dip & pack, tips etc. you're looking at $20K easy and that doesn't include taxidermy & shipping. Tanzania prices are just plain crazy. Could I afford such a hunt - YES, will I pay that much just to shoot another Buff - NO. To me it's way overpriced. Tom Z NRA Life Member | |||
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I couldn`t agree more with some of the comments on here regarding overpriced hunts but perhaps these same USA clientele have been partly to blame for this? It seems to me the Safari business has largely been influenced by USA clientele willing to step up to the trough and pay threw the nose no matter what, heck , for a large part they have and are to blame! On top of that it has now become expected to pay huge tips on top of overprices rates! Nothing bothers me more than when an outfitter places in his not included ``tips`` implying that that are expected, what nerve I say. As a Canadian I am having to pay 10 -30% more on Safari costs as those rates are in USD, so I can hardly feel bad for the others that make American dollars, your already receiving a 10-30% discount in my books. How about an offer in Canadian rates for even say an elephant hunt which we can import, but all I hear is USA can`t import tears. I hope the new trend is to get back to the Safari roots of old. Not having to do group hunts just to go on Safari but rather reasonable rates so more family or father son hunts are possible. It was our own Fairgame who enlightened us to the 7 day buff and letchwe all inclusive hunt for 7500USD. a FAR CRY FROM THE 15K GOUGING. Good hunting | |||
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The Russian market is significant especially in Mozambique. | |||
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I think it was that wise old philospher pogo who once said "we have met the enemy and they is us". Tom Z NRA Life Member | |||
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Interesting discussion thanks for the replies What kind of margin are in some of these hunts? Zim? Mozambique? Plains game to Buffalo? Any more colour on some of the operating costs of these hunts? Obviously there would be differences but have the costs come down too with the price of oil etc? | |||
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What I noticed is buff/sable hunts went down some in SA It seemed to switch with Zim Used to be cheaper to hunt in Zim for Buff,, now looks like SA might be cheaper. Of course Zim is Wild Buff and SA is mix of wild and ranch hunts That's the advantage of SA, which can adapt readily in hunting industry because politically is a ton more stable then any other African nation " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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With the exception of Zambia. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Dead Eye, The price of oil does not effect costs here. It might on your flights. In Zambia we share incomes with attached rural communities and me more so. In free range concessions I would say that anti poaching and the maintenance of vehicles and equipment is a major cost. My quotas are small and I am restricted to the safaris I can sell. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I don't know anything about Zambia Andrew I might have to study a bit African hunting finances is just as hard on clientele as it is on operators, I'm sure. " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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Look at it this way. No safari operator has ever become rich. Those in the business for years are in it because that's what they know best, to earn a living at. Governments have become greedy, they want more money from the safari business, but are unwilling to do anything to protect it. Rampant poaching we see all over the place is the result. Add to that the increasing number of crooks sprouting up as safari operators, which all adds up to us having to pay dearly for a safari, and make sure we hunt with someone who will deliver, rather than pick the cheapest and suffer the consequences. | |||
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Absolutely and it is paramount that the likes of your selves are provided with the very best safari experience for your hard earned. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I think Saeed has it right. There is little doubt in my mind that oil prices are affecting hunting. I have friends who are beneficiaries in trusts that are largely funded by oil royalties. Their income is WAY down. Are there hunting plans changing? Yes, absolutely. One friend has cancelled plans for a full bag safari and changed to a 3 day dove hunting Argentina. Yes, some hunts are expensive. I suppose that depends on how one looks at it. Is it too expensive because it is out of ones budget even if the operator is barely making a living? I think age, economic uncertainty, ISIS, and the Russian situation all combine to make some think twice about highly discretionary spending. I also think some of the costs associated with hunting put off people. I am referring to charters and air fares. I just got back from Argentina. My airfare was $12,000! The cost of the air charter was astronomical. It is easy to have $20,000- $25,000 in travel costs before a trigger is pulled. I had a long conversation with a Tanzanian PH at SCI. I have known him for 9 years. He was pressing me to hunt with him . My reply caught him off guard. I told him I was permanently pissed off with the Tanzanian government for the 2006 lion hunting closure and the 2007 price change debacle. How much of the high base costs are government fees? He was shocked. Then I dropped the air charter bomb on him. I flatly refused to pay $16,000 for a round trip charter whether I could afford it or not. He is scrambling now. | |||
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16.000 us dollars for a round trip charter ? This is completely nuts ! Is this an around the world airticket ?? Can someone explain the calculation of such a charter trip ? Honestly I do not understand a shit of it - neiher that someone obviously is willing to pay ! Larry refused - but someone else is probably willing ! Morten The more I know, the less I wonder ! | |||
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The $15,000 Charter Flights are EXACTLY why I will not hunt Tanzania. I just cannot abide by getting screwed like that no matter what the excuse. Jeff | |||
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Tanzania is special....as in "short bus" special. Ever since I started hunting in Africa some 15 years ago I have always been amazed that people bother to go there. When it comes to hunting the Big 5, one can hunt them in other countries much cheaper and almost certainly get better results in the aggregate. That means that the advantage of Tanzania is to be found in certain species. On that front, I realized a long time ago that I just don't need a Lesser Kudu or Gerenuk that bad! | |||
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I can't help but to agree with the notion of most African governments adding to to safari price burden which ultimately is passed down to the clientele so answer me this. A place such as Zambia that has had a walk up entry fee of either 2500 - 5000USD for a GMA hunt with a Classic or Midi hunting licenses so who recieves this money and were or what is it spent on? A 5000USD entry fee is the price of some free range 1 million acre package hunts in Namibia, albeit not for glamour game such as lion,sable or roan? The only other question I have is if one is paying in USD but the currency differs of that country ie, rand at 10-1 ratio how does an operator not have a good chance to make a fair living, does one not pay for things in stores restraunts in rand ect? Good hunting! | |||
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Haven't you read? Generally, the PH is losing money by taking you hunting: In fact, most take the money their wife uses to buy food for their kids just so you can have gas in the Land Cruiser. If it weren't for your tip, they would starve. Next week in fact.   Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
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The Concession fee or "Entry fee" for GMA's are paid to the Wildlife department and they are supposed to pay 30% of that to the community (CRB's) But it rarely gets there. If you though $2500- $5000 was a lot before, then wait and see when the concessions are allocated again. Next round will be way higher. Very good reason to choose the private areas over the GMA's Thor Kirchner Munyamadzi Game Ranch +260 978157643 P.O. Box 570049 Nyimba, Zambia www.thorwildlifesafaris.com munyamadzi@live.com | |||
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That's the problem with free advertising, anyone can jump in and offer something. I know most of the guys that post their hunts their, all of them with good rep's apart from Juan Pace that made a comeback under a different name. I think the guys that has been the longest on AR books the most hunts. I personally hosted maybe 20 guys from AR (or more) over the last 10 (?) years. As far as SCI goes. It rocked. We nearly sold out on all Buffalo and Sable. Two BIG Bucket List hunts. Some folks booked their hunts for next year. It was a buyers market for sure. NO one EVER mentioned Ebola. Our Moz. hunts was slow, but it is simply because we are still building on a name there. Some folks are going to pick up screaming deals from me for Buff hunts later in the year, cause I can see us having open quota still..... Missed a bunch of you though because we were just mopped the whole time! Charl van Rooyen Owner Infinito Travel Group www.infinito-safaris.com charl@infinito-safaris.com Cell: +27 78 444 7661 Tel: +27 13 262 4077 Fax:+27 13 262 3845 Hereford Street 28A Groblersdal 0470 Limpopo R.S.A. "For the Infinite adventure" Plains Game Dangerous Game Bucket List Specialists Wing-Shooting In House Taxidermy Studio In House Dip and Pack Facility In House Shipping Service Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris Flight bookings "I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?" South Africa Tanzania Uganda | |||
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I agree with Saeed, you gotta love your job to stay in it. As long as person makes living it's all good. I also agree with larry, charters are way out of line in Tanz, besides their prices. I hope SA, Zim, Namib, Zam and Moz give them run for the money You can buy decent little plane in States for $ 30,000.00 that will last you long time. Ask Alaska guys, they use them every day and if they asked for what Tanz charters ask, they would be willified, crucified, hell probably shot at on sight. Ultimately market will take care of things as it always did. Very nice talk Charl. " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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Thor - thanks for the clarity on my questions as I wondered if any of the fee's ever trickled down as they should. At the end of the day I hope all can make an honest living and provide many hunters with dreams fulfilled. If it wasn't for you guys there would be nothing left and I thank you for your efforts! Good hunting | |||
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Thor and I are designing a Group hunt as we speak and he has kindly reserved some very desirable animals for this late season hunt. Including Roan mate. Food for thought? ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I think people vastly underestimate how difficult and expensive it is to operate a business in Tanzania, or any third world country. These difficulties and expenses are amplified by the more complex and technical the business. A $15,000 charter is expensive, no doubt, but that is 2 round trip flights, then you need to consider cost of getting a plane in country, fuel, qualified people to fly and fix the plane, parts, the list goes on and on. There is nothing cheap about doing business or living in Tanzania. The cost of renting a place has gone down over the past few years here, but it is still easy to pay $3000+ a month for a rather unremarkable place to stay. The only thing cheap here is unskilled labor. ----------------------------------------- "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. -Henry David Thoreau, Walden | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting "Outfitters- Offered and Discounted Hunts Forum" getting more traffic
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