quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Just like flu or cold
Not everyone gets it even when they are around sick people
Nothing is 100% and we all fell for the panic

quote:

Originally posted by Alfredo C:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Just like flu or cold
Not everyone gets it even when they are around sick people
Nothing is 100% and we all fell for the panic

I agree BK. Something isn't right about the response...essentially, we shut down the WORLD.
Thousands of people in NYC have died but how many would have died anyway. There was a homicide the other night in the Bronx where the person was shot twice in the head and the police were joking that the Medical Examiner was probably told to list cause of death as "gunshot wounds complicated by coronavirus." I'm starting to think that it might be true.

There is NO WAY that I wasn't FULLY EXPOSED to the CV...2 weeks of living in a shoebox sized house with 2 confirmed positive people.

And I am negative??

quote:

For those who might be interested, Quest has a test for the anti-bodies. You have the results in 2 days. I don't remember the exact cost. it is around $120.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Alfredo C:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Just like flu or cold
Not everyone gets it even when they are around sick people
Nothing is 100% and we all fell for the panic

I agree BK. Something isn't right about the response...essentially, we shut down the WORLD.
Thousands of people in NYC have died but how many would have died anyway. There was a homicide the other night in the Bronx where the person was shot twice in the head and the police were joking that the Medical Examiner was probably told to list cause of death as "gunshot wounds complicated by coronavirus." I'm starting to think that it might be true.

There is NO WAY that I wasn't FULLY EXPOSED to the CV...2 weeks of living in a shoebox sized house with 2 confirmed positive people.

And I am negative??

It’s called fallacy of composition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_composition

The world does not revolve around one event. Everything has outliers. You are just the outlier or the person getting the infection is the outlier but there is nothing really special about you. Every doctor treating covid patients does not get covid but some do.

If they injected you with covid and your body rejected the infection then you may be a special case and useful to the science of stopping covid. But I seriously doubt you have some special immune system. You just did not catch it - it’s not like you are special and immune to covid.

https://www.who.int/emergencie...vid-19-and-influenza

Even Unprotected sex with hiv positive person does not have 100 percent transmission risk. But it is a damn risky activity. Just as covid is risky for certain age groups and certain individuals but even in those groups there may be exceptions.

Glad your son and girlfriend are doing fine. I have lived in some new York city apartments that were small so I know how tight space can be.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by KMG Hunting Safaris:
This will go down as one of the biggest overreactions in history.

quote:

Originally posted by KMG Hunting Safaris:
This will go down as one of the biggest overreactions in history.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Alfredo C:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Just like flu or cold
Not everyone gets it even when they are around sick people
Nothing is 100% and we all fell for the panic

I agree BK. Something isn't right about the response...essentially, we shut down the WORLD.
Thousands of people in NYC have died but how many would have died anyway. There was a homicide the other night in the Bronx where the person was shot twice in the head and the police were joking that the Medical Examiner was probably told to list cause of death as "gunshot wounds complicated by coronavirus." I'm starting to think that it might be true.

There is NO WAY that I wasn't FULLY EXPOSED to the CV...2 weeks of living in a shoebox sized house with 2 confirmed positive people.

And I am negative??

It’s called fallacy of composition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_composition

The world does not revolve around one event. Everything has outliers. You are just the outlier or the person getting the infection is the outlier but there is nothing really special about you. Every doctor treating covid patients does not get covid but some do.

If they injected you with covid and your body rejected the infection then you may be a special case and useful to the science of stopping covid. But I seriously doubt you have some special immune system. You just did not catch it - it’s not like you are special and immune to covid.

https://www.who.int/emergencie...vid-19-and-influenza

Even Unprotected sex with hiv positive person does not have 100 percent transmission risk. But it is a damn risky activity. Just as covid is risky for certain age groups and certain individuals but even in those groups there may be exceptions.

Glad your son and girlfriend are doing fine. I have lived in some new York city apartments that were small so I know how tight space can be.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Alfredo C:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Just like flu or cold
Not everyone gets it even when they are around sick people
Nothing is 100% and we all fell for the panic

I agree BK. Something isn't right about the response...essentially, we shut down the WORLD.
Thousands of people in NYC have died but how many would have died anyway. There was a homicide the other night in the Bronx where the person was shot twice in the head and the police were joking that the Medical Examiner was probably told to list cause of death as "gunshot wounds complicated by coronavirus." I'm starting to think that it might be true.

There is NO WAY that I wasn't FULLY EXPOSED to the CV...2 weeks of living in a shoebox sized house with 2 confirmed positive people.

And I am negative??

It’s called fallacy of composition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_composition

The world does not revolve around one event. Everything has outliers. You are just the outlier or the person getting the infection is the outlier but there is nothing really special about you. Every doctor treating covid patients does not get covid but some do.

If they injected you with covid and your body rejected the infection then you may be a special case and useful to the science of stopping covid. But I seriously doubt you have some special immune system. You just did not catch it - it’s not like you are special and immune to covid.

https://www.who.int/emergencie...vid-19-and-influenza

Even Unprotected sex with hiv positive person does not have 100 percent transmission risk. But it is a damn risky activity. Just as covid is risky for certain age groups and certain individuals but even in those groups there may be exceptions.

Glad your son and girlfriend are doing fine. I have lived in some new York city apartments that were small so I know how tight space can be.

Mike

While I agree an n of one (maybe an n=2 as I presume Alfredo’s wife didn’t contract either???) statistically means nothing...this is still interesting. Alfredo was guaranteed exposed to virus particle—regularly for 2 weeks...provided the diagnosis of the kids was accurate. This virus is being billed as highly...repeat HIGHLY contagious. The HIV virus like Rabies virus is actually hard to transmit...thus the comparison is apples to oranges.

As an investigator of infectious disease (albeit in horses) things across the board are not adding up for me.

As said above...history will reveal this to have been the most overblown reaction the world has ever seen.

quote:

Originally posted by GunsCore:
I took the test last week. Both my wife and daughter were sick in mid January (both recovered and are fine) so we thought they may have had Covid and if they had it then I was certainly exposed to it. I was hoping I had the anti-bodies but nope, nothing, all clean. Rather disappointing.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Truly odd. But in any case I'm glad you and your family are all healthy.

quote:

Originally posted by Moneypenny:

quote:

Originally posted by KMG Hunting Safaris:
This will go down as one of the biggest overreactions in history.

I totally agree, blown all out of proportion! Why? Because it supposedly started in China? The media as usual hyped it up for headlines? The government took note of the media’s reaction and the general public’s response to the media, then based all their actions regarding Covid on pleasing the people (who don’t actually have all the facts) and made a pigs ear of it, confusing everyone and themselves!

So the worldwide economy is ruined. Younger generations who were sitting important exams this year will forever be known as ‘the Covid Kids’ who didn’t really sit their exams and their results aren’t real!

Statistics can always be misleading and manipulated to swing towards the result you want.
I’d be interested to see figures for death and infection rates for common regular viruses and compare those to COVID-19. Those figures don’t seem to be banded about as much as death figures and infection rates of COVID 19. Reporting of death rates could also be misleading, as was said earlier on the thread “died of gun shot related to COVID” hence death most likely reported as died of COVID! As for the tests, can we be sure how precise they are testing for COVID-19 and not just a more common corona virus?

It’s all rather fishy to me how it’s all being handled and reported, and I’m keeping an open mind as to what this is really all about! I’m not liking the idea of an app that tracks your movements and contact with people who may have COVID, or a possible future vaccine! Seems to me like we are losing much of our Freedom.

One thing that really gets my goat is how Government in the U.K. can state that they will only lift restrictions for COVID based on sound science, but when it comes to hunting trophy importation bans they ignore science and listen to emotional anti-groups or ‘Sally’ from facebook who has many cats!!!

What strange and unbelievable times we are living in.

quote:

Originally posted by shoulderman:
There is so much about this that we don't know. This is definitely not the same as the flu. The flu does not kill the doctors and nurses that care for the flu infected patients. But, Covid has killed many health care workers, especially in Italy. I have friends in Seattle and New York who have lost healthy coworkers after extensive time on a ventilator. It is likely due to significant exposure possibly to multiple strains of the virus. We had a nurse in a neighboring hospital finish her shift, not feel well. She went to the ER and 2 days later dead of Covid with the classic lung changes on her Chest Xray and Ct scans. There are multiple strains of this thing, potentially up to 30 strains. My old med school roommate did his infection disease fellowship at the NIH and knows Faucci and the whole crew. He and I communicate daily. We simply know very little about what we are dealing with. You may get exposed and not get infected. You may get infected and have zero symptoms or a mild cold or you may die. That is what we are seeing. It seems to relate to genetics and your individual response to how your body reacts to the virus. To tell the parents of the children that have died from this thing, that we have all over reacted would be a mistake.

quote:

Originally posted by Alfredo C:

quote:

Originally posted by shoulderman:
There is so much about this that we don't know. This is definitely not the same as the flu. The flu does not kill the doctors and nurses that care for the flu infected patients. But, Covid has killed many health care workers, especially in Italy. I have friends in Seattle and New York who have lost healthy coworkers after extensive time on a ventilator. It is likely due to significant exposure possibly to multiple strains of the virus. We had a nurse in a neighboring hospital finish her shift, not feel well. She went to the ER and 2 days later dead of Covid with the classic lung changes on her Chest Xray and Ct scans. There are multiple strains of this thing, potentially up to 30 strains. My old med school roommate did his infection disease fellowship at the NIH and knows Faucci and the whole crew. He and I communicate daily. We simply know very little about what we are dealing with. You may get exposed and not get infected. You may get infected and have zero symptoms or a mild cold or you may die. That is what we are seeing. It seems to relate to genetics and your individual response to how your body reacts to the virus. To tell the parents of the children that have died from this thing, that we have all over reacted would be a mistake.

Good and thoughtful post shoulderman, and yes we would never want to say that this is an overreaction to someone who has lost a loved one BUT at some point we have to decide that we can no longer live this way and get back to normal and let the chips fall where they fall.

The response now has become oppressive, overbearing and is eroding our personal freedoms...what's next do we have to carry around a card to prove that we are negative and if we are not then the police can haul us off to an "Isolation Camp?" "Your Papers Please"

Sounds like this happened already 70 years ago in Germany....

I think that the bottom line is this: open the world back up. If one wants to stay home and in isolation then FINE it's their prerogative. Elderly, pre-conditions, overweight, etc great then YOU stay home....do whatever you want to do

Those of us who want to take a chance then it's up to THEM.

This is the USA....right??

PS: Shoulderman, this rant isn't to you or your post....I'm just on a roll and pissed-off that Gov. Cuomo has cancelled my Safari for me

quote:

Originally posted by shoulderman:
Alfredo,

I get it. We just don't know. The kicker is that if anyone wants to take their chances that is fine. If they don't worry about getting sick, no problem it is on them. However, they can be a symptom free vector and infect someone less fortunate. My analogy is the seatbelt law and motorcycle helmet law. I think they are bullshit laws. If you don't want to wear a seatbelt or wear a helmet that is on you as an adult, free to make your choices, and you are the only one who reaps the result of your choices. Covid is more like drunk driving. A drunk driver can hit a telephone pole and kill himself. Who gives a shit? It was on him. But, if he hits my wife and kids due to his selfish stupidity, then it now affects me. Statistics have shown that every case leads to multiple others. That is what is so hard to digest with this thing.

quote:

Originally posted by shoulderman:
Unfortunately, I don't have the answer. Not that smart. I think we have to open up with caution. I think air travel is the most dangerous thing we can do. The guy sitting in first class is breathing the same air as the guy in the coach shitter in the back. Masks won't help much at all in that situation. It is a closed system of recirculated air. The people who have been the sickest have had air travel exposures due to higher viral load exposures. Likely, planes will need to install UV light systems in the ventilation system to sterilize the air as it passes through the system. They are relatively cheap and incredibly effective at killing the virus and many other pathogens. Then masks would be effective to avoid exposing those close to us. Also likely, like Air Emirates has done on some flights, rapid Covid PCR tests for passengers before the flight. This is scary shit, but you are right, we have to try to move forward. As an orthopedic surgeon, I am currently doing 10% of the surgeries I used to and seeing 25% of the patients in the office I used to. That doesn't cover my overhead. 2020 won't be a banger year for any of us, but my family is healthy and my house and cars are paid for. So I count myself very fortunate.

quote:

Originally posted by Alfredo C:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Alfredo C:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Just like flu or cold
Not everyone gets it even when they are around sick people
Nothing is 100% and we all fell for the panic

I agree BK. Something isn't right about the response...essentially, we shut down the WORLD.
Thousands of people in NYC have died but how many would have died anyway. There was a homicide the other night in the Bronx where the person was shot twice in the head and the police were joking that the Medical Examiner was probably told to list cause of death as "gunshot wounds complicated by coronavirus." I'm starting to think that it might be true.

There is NO WAY that I wasn't FULLY EXPOSED to the CV...2 weeks of living in a shoebox sized house with 2 confirmed positive people.

And I am negative??

It’s called fallacy of composition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_composition

The world does not revolve around one event. Everything has outliers. You are just the outlier or the person getting the infection is the outlier but there is nothing really special about you. Every doctor treating covid patients does not get covid but some do.

If they injected you with covid and your body rejected the infection then you may be a special case and useful to the science of stopping covid. But I seriously doubt you have some special immune system. You just did not catch it - it’s not like you are special and immune to covid.

https://www.who.int/emergencie...vid-19-and-influenza

Even Unprotected sex with hiv positive person does not have 100 percent transmission risk. But it is a damn risky activity. Just as covid is risky for certain age groups and certain individuals but even in those groups there may be exceptions.

Glad your son and girlfriend are doing fine. I have lived in some new York city apartments that were small so I know how tight space can be.

Mike

While I agree an n of one (maybe an n=2 as I presume Alfredo’s wife didn’t contract either???) statistically means nothing...this is still interesting. Alfredo was guaranteed exposed to virus particle—regularly for 2 weeks...provided the diagnosis of the kids was accurate. This virus is being billed as highly...repeat HIGHLY contagious. The HIV virus like Rabies virus is actually hard to transmit...thus the comparison is apples to oranges.

As an investigator of infectious disease (albeit in horses) things across the board are not adding up for me.

As said above...history will reveal this to have been the most overblown reaction the world has ever seen.

Doc, I do realize that you are a Veterinarian but I'm sure that your opinion is worth more than anyone's here. In your opinion, do you think that my wife an I have some sort of an immunity for the CV, and/or do you have an opinion on why we didn't get it??

PS: I don't know if this matters but I never had the Flu in my entire life either

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Alfredo C:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Alfredo C:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Just like flu or cold
Not everyone gets it even when they are around sick people
Nothing is 100% and we all fell for the panic

I agree BK. Something isn't right about the response...essentially, we shut down the WORLD.
Thousands of people in NYC have died but how many would have died anyway. There was a homicide the other night in the Bronx where the person was shot twice in the head and the police were joking that the Medical Examiner was probably told to list cause of death as "gunshot wounds complicated by coronavirus." I'm starting to think that it might be true.

There is NO WAY that I wasn't FULLY EXPOSED to the CV...2 weeks of living in a shoebox sized house with 2 confirmed positive people.

And I am negative??

It’s called fallacy of composition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_composition

The world does not revolve around one event. Everything has outliers. You are just the outlier or the person getting the infection is the outlier but there is nothing really special about you. Every doctor treating covid patients does not get covid but some do.

If they injected you with covid and your body rejected the infection then you may be a special case and useful to the science of stopping covid. But I seriously doubt you have some special immune system. You just did not catch it - it’s not like you are special and immune to covid.

https://www.who.int/emergencie...vid-19-and-influenza

Even Unprotected sex with hiv positive person does not have 100 percent transmission risk. But it is a damn risky activity. Just as covid is risky for certain age groups and certain individuals but even in those groups there may be exceptions.

Glad your son and girlfriend are doing fine. I have lived in some new York city apartments that were small so I know how tight space can be.

Mike

While I agree an n of one (maybe an n=2 as I presume Alfredo’s wife didn’t contract either???) statistically means nothing...this is still interesting. Alfredo was guaranteed exposed to virus particle—regularly for 2 weeks...provided the diagnosis of the kids was accurate. This virus is being billed as highly...repeat HIGHLY contagious. The HIV virus like Rabies virus is actually hard to transmit...thus the comparison is apples to oranges.

As an investigator of infectious disease (albeit in horses) things across the board are not adding up for me.

As said above...history will reveal this to have been the most overblown reaction the world has ever seen.

Doc, I do realize that you are a Veterinarian but I'm sure that your opinion is worth more than anyone's here. In your opinion, do you think that my wife an I have some sort of an immunity for the CV, and/or do you have an opinion on why we didn't get it??

PS: I don't know if this matters but I never had the Flu in my entire life either

Alfredo,
Even if you were resistant/asymptomatic...I would expect you to seroconvert (develop antibodies) if you had been exposed. And living in an 800 square foot house with a positive person...almost no way you did not take in virus particle. Thus I definitely would NOT say you are likely resistant.

I find horses exposed to respiratory pathogens almost always seroconvert even if we never find antigen with PCR tests.

Two things that worry me:
1) Your son and son's girlfriend may have had a false positive...a) from an insensitive test or b) from cross reaction from another similar corona virus.

2) Maybe the antibody tests are still really poor...from still not fully understanding the immune response we make.

3) Possibly this virus (maybe at least some strains) is not nearly as transmissible as being billed.

If I were you...I would not get a false sense of security from the experience—yet.