I'm trading into a left-hand Model 70 .300 Win. Mag. I already have a Weatherby .300Wby., so this is going to be converted into either a .416 Taylor or a .458 Winchester Magnum.

I have hunted thick-skinned DG before, and will again.

Which of these two rounds is 'better', or is there another cartridge (that fits in this action) that would be better still?

George
P.S. I also already have a .338 Win. Mag., a .375H&H, and a .470 Capstick.

[ 09-24-2003, 23:51: Message edited by: GeorgeS ]

The .416 Taylor would be a nice 'in-between' round to fill the gap from your .375 to the .470. I had a Taylor for a while and in a weak moment I traded it off.....wish I hadn't done that!

375 + 470 = 845
845/2 = 422.5

Seems like the natural answer for you is the .425 WR. Failing that, I think the .416 would be great.

JohnTheGreek

GeorgeS-why not go for broke and build yourself a 585 Nyati, or you could stop at the 500 Jeffery! judy

George,
A .416 Taylor plus your .338 WinMag would make a nice second battery to your .375 H&H plus 470 Capstick. Both are nice pairs.

A .338 plus a .458 ain't bad either. But, if you built a .458 Winnie, you would probably turn it into a Lott before long.

The best use I have for .458 Winnie brass now, is to turn it into .416 Taylor brass with a simple pass through the Taylor die. Qualcart .416 Taylor headstamped is good stuff too.

Edit: After reading Paul's post, I see that I am as harsh as Ross Seyfried.

[ 09-25-2003, 03:20: Message edited by: DaggaRon ]

taylor, if the 416 remington wouldn't fit.. i think it will, just swap the mag box.

dont' bother with a 458, unless it's a lott, then the 416 rem is probably better...

jeffe

Paul H-with all due respect...you are wrong! The M70 can and has been chambered in both those cartridges. I believe that one of the regulars here at AR has a 585 Nyati built on a M70. judy

Just an FYI. I have a friend who is selling a custom made 416 lefty, I am not sure of the details only that he is recently divorced and needs the money. If you are at all interested drop me an email and I will get you the details.

Dave,

E-mail sent!

George

Paul H -"I thought that was only in the schizoid delusions of your alternate personalty, Axel?" Wrong again!!!

The long time poster at AR, that I am thinking of, is a gentleman from SLC, Utah. I have seen a 500 Jeffery made on a M70 for your information. It can be done. The Jeffery and Nyati were both designed to fit a military mauser action. The M70 action is actually longer than a military Mauser. The M70 bolt diameter is the same as a Mauser too smart guy. judy

<edited for political correctness>

Show us PROOF, Judy. Make one!

Jeffe

[ 10-07-2003, 01:05: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

Judy/ToddE/Axel/etc.,

Stay out of my threads.

George

Has anyone used a 416 Z-hat? It is based on the Remington Ultramag Brass necked to 416. This might be an option as Z-hat also sells the proper headstamped brass. I am assuming the action you have is a full magnum action. I am also left handed and have been looking loooong and hard at the Ultramag case as the base for a 416 or 458 as I simply can not afford the Big Dakota Lefty. Definitely more capacity than the standard belted mag. I have a 338 Stainless Ultra waiting for me to decide what new barrel is going on it.

[ 09-26-2003, 02:46: Message edited by: Old & Slow ]

Old & slow,

The problem, as I understand it, is that the .404J-based rounds a) are a little big for the action, and b) limit magazine capacity to two rounds in the M-70.

If I am mistaken, would someone other than Judy/ToddE/Axel/etc. please correct me?

George

That must be why USRAC is chambering the Remington Ultra mags clear through 375, George! Cause they won't fit!
George, I just realized that last comment may have been uncalled for. You do realize that the Remington Ultra magnums are based upon the 404 Jeffery case, don't you? You really need to invest in better magazines. The ones you are currently reading are sorely lacking in technical content.

Well I can see no one wants my input here <because I am right and they all know it> so I will borrow an old Steve Martin line and bow out with... EXCUSE ME...judy

Judy/TurdE/Axel,

Go back to the political forum, where your opinions are held in the low regard they deserve.

George

George, Paul, jeffeosso-can you explain this to me?
==================================================
500grains
One Of Us
Member # 8001

posted 02-04-2003 00:09
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I don't know exactly how many rounds I have fired in my 585 nyati based on a model 70, but it is well over 100 and maybe over 200 (definitely less than 300). My standard load is 130 gr. Re15 with a 750 grainer. I have pushed the 750 up to 2320 fps without difficulty.

The recoil is not bad in a 13.25 pound rifle, although to be honest it is easier to control from the bench than offhand.
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Posts: 3134 | From: Salt Lake City, Utah | Registered: Apr 2002 | IP: Logged
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He does say his 585 Nyati is based upon a M70, doesn't he? According to you learned gentlemen this is an impossibility! I am begging you to explain this to me, please! judy

[ 09-26-2003, 05:43: Message edited by: Judy ]

Perhaps if I type it in bold, it will register on that pea brain of yours:

FUCK OFF!

George

George, you seem to have the DG cartridges covered....however I'd ask if you would like to rebarrel the .300 Wby mag to 0.458 Lott.

It might have to be restocked due to lack of room in the barrel channel but that should be a small problem.

Vapodog,

The Weatherby is a push-feed.

George

George,

One of the virtues of the .404 Jeff is its ability to go into the M98 sized actions according to Mr. 404 (AKA Ray!). But Ray also says you are going to have to spring for new bottom metal to get the magazine capacity that you would want.

I would think about the Jeff or the .404 Dakota (my latest Hmmm Cartidge).

jim dodd

Jim,

I had inquired about a .404 Jeffery on the M-70, and John Ricks had explained that there was quite a bit of work (and expense) involved in getting a .404 Jeffery to feed properly in that action.

All things considered, the .416 Remington is a better choice for me (I'm not much of a nostalgia hound).

George

Nostalgia aside, the 416 Remington is one of the best balanced .416 rounds around! The stadard 375 H&H magazine will normally hold three rounds, and the feeding is very easy to make work properly! I like the old Rigby cased rounds,both 404 Jeffery, and 416 Rigby but the Rigby is a pain to load with the very sharp shoulder, as it is very easy to telescope the case when seating bullets useing the crimp! This, and the magazine capacity, are the two facts that caused George Hoffman to use the 375 H&H brass for his 416 Hoffman Magnum, instead of the Jeffery brass. The Mod 70 action is perfect for the Remington, or Hoffman 416s! The Jeffery will require some complex work, and bottom mettel to work best!

With all that said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the 416 TAYLOR, and the work involved in makeing it feed,are minimumal, as is the makeing of brass for the round! In fact, I have a very nice Mauser actioned 30-06 rifle, that I'm seriously thinking re-barreling,opening the bolt face, and building a 416 Taylor on, as we speak!

George,

Nothing wrong with the Taylor, but some terrific and overlooked chambers for your standard action are the 450 Howell (simply a 404 Jefferey case cut to 2.5", your bolt opened to .540", and your magazine lengthened to accept 3+1 instead if 2+1). A very easy conversion.

The 460 A-Square Short is another dandy, simply a 460 Wby case cut to 2.5", but the bolt face and feed rails would require more significant work because this is a Rigby derived case.

The Howell gets 2225 fps at the muzzle, while the A-Square Short turns in 2400 fps. One is on par with the full length Lott, the other the full length Dakota.

I really think the Capstick is an awesome bolt gun cartridge ahead of any .458 as a stopper or the older 470 Nitro Express.

Take Care,
rossi

[ 09-26-2003, 23:43: Message edited by: rossi ]

rossi, you better go back and read the previous posts! You CANNOT use a 404 Jeffery based cartridge in a tiny action like the M70 Winchester. You need a smaller action like a K98 Mauser, for that. Everyone knows that. So the Howell cartridges are out! I cannot imagine getting a 378 Weatherby mag case to work in a miniscule little M70. So that rules out the 460 short A-Square. <wonder how Art Alpin got a 495 A-Square to work on a M70>

What is the matter George, you upset because a girl knows more than you?

jeffeosso, can you build a 500 Jeffery on a K98 action? Be careful before you answer. You don't want to make a fool out of yourself, do you? judy

Doesn't lazzeroni make a line of cartridges that go up to 416 that will work in a standard length action? Don't know anything about them myself, just read an article on his Warbird cartridge once.

Red

George
Since you already have rifles suitable for anything you might hunt in the whole world I would respecfully suggest that you get whatever you want. I can't see how you can make much of a case for anything else being materially better than what you have already. ( I'd spend the money on another hunt personally!)

Mike,

I think you've hit on something!

George

George 500 grains has a .585 Nyati built on an m70 action.

In giving an opinion to your question, I would either opt for a .458 Lott or a .416 Remington.

Can I ask if you wanted to build a .416 why would you opt for the .416 Taylor over the .416 Remington , they will both fit into a m70 action is there an advantage to the .416 Taylor I am not aware of, is the .416 rem nearing obseletion ??

Geeeze George lighten up! I think you and Judy are ment for each other. How about an overnighter in Joberg just to compare ballistic coef.

Mamba,

You may be too much of a 'newbie' to know that Judy/ToddE/Axel/etc. is a troll who has cluttered up these forums for quite some time under many different names. He sometimes engages himself in arguments between several names.

I'll 'lighten up' when he drops dead.

George

PC,

I was just trying to make use of the two actions with cartridges that fit their respective magazines.

No particular 'need', just thinking I need to spend some discretionary income.

George

[ 09-27-2003, 09:19: Message edited by: GeorgeS ]

George, is it time for you to step up to a double rifle.....say in .416 Rigby?

Maybe you should ask how it'd look next to that great buffalo you got there.

George, let me get this straight. I am a 'troll' because...I answered your question in a sincere manner, and because the answer I gave was technically CORRECT!

So does that mean George, that if I desire not to be a 'troll' in your opinion, I need to answer questions in a insincere and incorrect manner? If that is the case, George, one of us has a major problem...and it isn't me!

jeffeosso, to help you out, check out www.bigbores.com. They make custom big bore rifles. The use K98 action <NOT magnum mausers> for the 500 Jeffery rifles they build. That is because the 500 Schuler/Jeffery was intentionally designed to work through the K98 action, and NOT require the difficult to obtain and extremely expensive magnum mauser action. Like George, you need to invest in better reference materials <magazines>. The reference materials <magazines> you currently read are sorely lacking in technical content. judy

PS I am not a troll. I am just:
1.) Smarter than some of the posters here so they hate me....and/or.....
2.) I am the direct opposite, of some posters here, on a few political issues so these same posters hate me.

MacD37-how was my first post on this thread 'troublemaking'? Both cartridges I suggested are viable alternatives to a 416 Taylor on a M70 action. Furthermore, I directly answered George's question! You just cannot accept the fact, that a woman knows, as much or more, about firearms than yourself! Admit it to yourself, at least, if you cannot admit it publically. Please do not go on living the lie. judy