Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen:

Please. I do appreciate the insight and responses to my original post. I think I said that. All I was trying to do was generate a responsible dialogue. I have moved on, and consider the matter closed. I wish you all good hunting.

TWL

China Sailor, you're wrong in assuming I want to know the name of the PH, I never said that so don't stick words in my mouth either. It's a two way street. Guess I wasn't clear enough, words you type don't always express your intent, either way . . . excuse me for typing.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:
Good Grief. Doesn't the term Suitcase Professionals ring any bells?
File an Ethics claim with SCI immediately. Don't threaten or bluster. Let them handle it .

Mickey: The first part of your statement is precisely why without a name this is a worthless thread.

You are painting all {sic} Suitcase Proffessionals with the same brush and that is not fair. In times past, we've seen skullduggery from "Big Name" Outfitters as well.

Speaking of "plucked chickens" after looking at some of the rates and charges one gets stuck with when it comes to "big name" Outfitters, I for one am perfectly content with my "Suitcase PH."

Your recommendation to register a complaint with SCI is a good one though. jorge

Jorge

I agree that not all 'suitcase PH's' are shady characters. Most are not, intentionally at least. However the vast majority are living on a shoe string and do not have any financial stability, let alone the assets to make up for a bad hunt, no matter the cause.

In order of importance their family, their concession holders, their equipment and their beer money all come before the client. Their seems to be an unending supply of clients foolish enough to deal with anyone who offers a good deal and shows some interest in being a 'friend'.

This particular PH evidently cannot afford a booth at SCI and is selling hunts off of the floor. (This is a violation of SCI rules by the way and is unfair to those who do purchase a booth.) He probably spent the profit for the hunt before he left the US as most of these guys are hand to mouth while over here and live on their deposits. It is doubtful he had any money to refund for the hunt no matter what his wishes would have been.

Similar to taking a phone number off of a telephone pole for a tile layer to put down your Italian marble.

Since both the client and the PH are members of SCI (as they were both at the convention) that is the place to go to work out the issue. The threat of not being admitted to the convention to market his hunts should be a sufficient reason for a satisfactory settlement. Since the process is secret, if the PH is found not to have violated the SCI Code of Ethics no wrong inference will be attached to his name and hopefully no loss of business will occur. If, on the other hand, he is found in violation he can be punished by up to permanent removal from SCI. For a small operator this can be a death knell.

Mickey's suggestion is a good one. Some of us lack complete confidence in SCI's procedures, however, due to the way SCI has protected Out of Africa Adventurous Safaris during the onging USFWS criminal investigation against them.

Another avenue is to submit a written report to the Hunting Report (Don Causey). Don gives the outfitter a chance to respond, and the response can be "Due to the extenuating circumstances, I refunded $4500 to the client."

quote:

Originally posted by Dom:
China Sailor, you're wrong in assuming I want to know the name of the PH, I never said that so don't stick words in my mouth either. It's a two way street. Guess I wasn't clear enough, words you type don't always express your intent, either way . . . excuse me for typing.

An ambiguous open ended statement like "I need more info to decide" is unclear and, ultimately, meaningless. Anybody, including the originator of this thread, would be forced to speculate about what you meant by that. Speculating isn't the same thing as putting words in your mouth. And If you read my post I you'll see that I raised the PH thing as an example of speculation.

quote:

Maybe I'm wrong about you wanting to know the names of the PH and outfitter. What information do you need to provide insight (he never asked for an answer, just insights and thoughts). You never say. It would have been "good manners" to ask a question . . .

If I overreacted to your post I apologize. As you say, our words can be unclear and sometimes our intent hard to determine in a post or an e-mail. I do think, though, you should give the same courtesy to others that you expect for yourself.

I heavily edited my previous post, so I'm editing this one so it'll make sense. These "I had a bad experience with a PH" threads tend to generate more heat than light. I expected that to happen here, but it didn't. Most of the posts are positive and helpful. I edited my previous post to DOM because in this case I realized my tone would fuel the fire. That doesn't add anything.