Spent thursday at sci reno and everybody seemed to be smiling and booking hunts. Prices even in Zim seemed higher then when I booked in 2003 for a 2004 hunt. Whats your take on it.??

One hunt for Caribou was booked full for 2005 and was priced 15% higher than last year.

Most everybody in the classic game areas is $2000 or E2000 a day now. What the hell is the deal with that?

I knew most of the Canook outfitters were going to raise because of the drop in the dollar. 15% was the standard across the board.

It also looked like Swanapol and Scandrol in Tanzania were 3000ish a day for classic safaris.

Certainly should have went five years ago instead of climbing K2, rather trying to climb K2.

If the dollar falls any more against the Rand, we will have to raise our prices even more. The Dollar started falling badly last year and doesn't seem to be catching up. Last year you could count on nearly or a little over R 7 or so to the Dollar, but right now if I have to exchange Dollars, I will barely get R5 50.

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It also looked like Swanapol and Scandrol in Tanzania were 3000ish a day for classic safaris.

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Prices like that are just plain crazy. Hopefully the market will let them know that by not booking.

two things... A weak dollar and

in Zim at any rate, most of the good hunting has condenced itself into the hands of perhaps a dozen or so good operators with their own concessions (lots of good smaller guys who buy off the big operators but they are a different issue), and a bunch of thieves selling stolen goods. The good operators all belong to the same association and the general agreement was, if your camps are up to standard, and you are offering the same average quality as Tanzania or Moz or Botswana do not charge less than a hunt there would cost.

This arrangement seems to be bearing fruit because all the guys are sold out on lion and buff, even at the new prices.

Ele are a different story because of the great variation in trophy quality.

So if you are getting a buff hunt in Zim for much below 8500 all in (trophy fees, insurance and road transfer) Why? Is the area not as good? Are the camps a bit tatty? is it stolen?

I did a hunt last year For an operator who shal remain nameless. Cold, greasy food every day for breakfast and dinner (hot when cooked but not when served). Chicory instead of coffee. I like coffee, can accept good instant but when the tin says Coffee Substitute and cost US 25c a lb you know its rough). Doors falling off the chalets etc. The client was a great guy and I was embarrased for him. Also the area was heavily poached and you had a choice of buff with a wire neck tie or buff with a snare round the leg...

The good camps in Zim are very good. Being perminant there has been much competition to bring them up to almost "five star" standard. Even the tented "fly" camps are usually superb.

At the end of the day you usually get what you pay for. That said, there are a few small operators in areas like the Save concervancy who's camps may not be up to scratch but the trophies are, and the odd other where you live in luxury but a 38" buff is quite good.

Why did'nt we get a discount in 2002 when it was 11:1? By the way the rate is now the same as it was in 2000.

The prices only ever go up with exchange rate mov'ts, never down with them.

I believe that at some point in time the prices will reach the level at which bookings will drop. Right now, they outfitters are able to raise prices and most are still booking nearly full. I must admit that I have started looking long and hard at what is included, what additional charges there are, and whether or not I really need to do the hunt. Of course, the answer to the third question always seems to be "yes."

Stone and Dall sheep hunts are the ultimate example of this price gouging. Very few outfitters in the Yukon and BC have Stone sheep hunts under $20,000 and most are gaining on $30,000.

Dall sheep were $5000 10 years ago in the Yukon now they are $12-16,000.

NONSENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

They are selling though.

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Originally posted by NitroX:
The prices only ever go up with exchange rate mov'ts, never down with them.

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Uhhhh, yep!! Funny how it works that way.

-Bob F.

I adjusted my prices for every single hunter when the rates were more then 9:1 you can ask anyone who hunted with me during that very short period how I correected the prices to fit the exchange rate.

One problem that is seen quite often is the outfitters website pricing does not closely follow the Exchange rates. Most outfitters and PH's Myself included do not run their own website nor do they have the time. So it's not easy to have it corrected on a frequent basis. This is the entire reason I do not list trophy fees on my site. It would just be a disaster because they would rarely be right on the money regarding the exchange rate.

Also with hunts booked a year in advance how can you know where the exchange will be? Do you price things so high you do not compete well? do you price them right at the rate so you lose if they drop? Over the last 10 years if the average is looked at the few times it has been strong was very very short, not even a full year, heck not even a 6 months. During that time the high point was in the middle of Summer (USA Winter) Nobody was hunting then anyway to take advantage of it!

I suppose this is more clear, and more painfull when your the one with the big losses to deal with. MAybe some of your outfitters did nothing to adjust the exchange but I know I did and plenty of guys who hunted with me from this site benifited from that.

Regarding Zimbabwe, a weak dollar is indeed one aspect, the other is increased demand. The fact that HHK (for example) sold out their considerable quota at a higher rate ($11K for a buffalo hunt) shows that apparently people are willing to pay this for a quality hunt. In this example the market dictates the price, and the prices went up because they could. Period.

I think even the prophets of doom-and-gloom will have to admit that this is a positive step for the safari industry in Zimbabwe.

However, it also means that deals will be harder to come by...and those that exist will need to be scrutinized closely as Ganyana points out. More of a level playing field now between Zim, Zambia, Tanz at least in regards to buffalo. Hopefully greed won't take over...

The good old days may have been last year!!!

It goes to show what a disservice Saeed is imposing on us old guys. Hunters that never knew how to spell buffalo are now booking hunts.

No wonder they are so expensive.

I have watched hunting prices for the past 18 years or so. When I first started hunting RSA, all prices were quoted in Rands. After the elections when the dollar was moving up and the Rand was dropping, all the land owners quickly switched to dollars to take advantage of the massive upside of Dollars over Rands. Then as the Dollar dropped against the Rand, the landowners demanded higher fees in order to maintain their profit margins.

In short, your getting screwed either way - smile and shoot and don’t believe the “I am taking care of you BSâ€...

Pricing goes up, Safaris are no different than gas or anything else..You can bet one thing for sure the prices run downhill to the consumer. I suspect that Safaris will continue to go up each year, particularly with the fuel situation, that relates to charter flights and the huge amounts of fuel it takes to operate a back country safari...

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Originally posted by Atkinson:
I suspect that Safaris will continue to go up each year, particularly with the fuel situation, that relates to charter flights and the huge amounts of fuel it takes to operate a back country safari...

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Well,
Time to consider a classic foot safari with "flying" bush camps

Cheers,
JOHAN

I don't have a problem with things getting mor expensive. I know I make a lot more money now than I did ten years ago.

I have a problem with the speed at which things have gone up.

I was wrong I earlier stated that Swanapol and Scandrol were $3000 a day it was $2000 a day. I got home and looked at the catalog again, and said "sheesh I screwed that up!"

Regardless of the point $2000 is a lot more than $1200 what the standard has been.

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I was wrong I earlier stated that Swanapol and Scandrol were $3000 a day it was $2000 a day. I got home and looked at the catalog again, and said "sheesh I screwed that up!"

Regardless of the point $2000 is a lot more than $1200 what the standard has been.

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Kokdyer,

I'm relieved to see it was $2000 and not $3000 per day. But US$2000 per day is still absurdly high IMO. Regardless of how strong the dollar is or isn't at the moment. I'm a little astonished that the market will bear such high daily rates...

And fuel situations in africa as Ray mentioned is no excuse for the large step up from US$1200 per day if you ask me.

As you mentioned, it's not that hunting is getting more expensive, it's like that with everything, but the "problem" is how quickly these prices are being raised. It's unreasonable.

I would think that many hunters will end up going only "once in a lifetime" instead of every few years. And this will obviously not be good for the safari business in the long run.

Will thr prices drop when the dollar is strong again? No matter how ridicuous 2k a day is if people are booking hunts the price will never drop..

Rope Will Prices drop again? No. Christmas 2003 I cashed US$200 (then Zim 110,000) to travel home, Buy presents and treat the fiance. Christmas 2004 cost me US$2k (Zim 1.4 million)and I din't have to buy Gold earings for a weding (we are now married whats wrong with the bottle of bubble bath?).

Our cost of living in US $ terms has jumped at least 8 fold in the last 18 months, and much the same actually applies to Africa north of the Limpopo. When Zim Sneezes, Central Africa catches cold. Actual food prices in Moz and Zambia have been pushed up 10x by the situation in Zim and it ain't going to improve.

I don't know what you guys are bleating about!

Sure you're spending a shed load of money but you're getting experiences that will live in your memories and your hearts forever .......when you're lying there on your deathbeds you'll still be thinking of Africa and saying to yourself "Hell, it was the best investment of my life!"

Steve,

I understand what you and Ganyana are saying, but wouldn't you think that customers returning over and over every couple of years would better than it ending up with the majority just doing it once because they can't afford more than "once in a lifetime"? The really rich will of course always have the money to do it, but lots of "little guys" add up in the end too I would think?

The last fifteen years have been an aberration. The confluence of increased RSA game farming, economic displacement from the end of apartheid, cheap fuel, low air fares, rising incomes and a strong currency in the U.S. served to provide the “Average Joe†with an opportunity to go on safari. Previously, Africa was never a place for the “AJâ€. It was always expensive in relative terms, and it took much longer to do a trip.

I’m friends with an older guy who hunted Africa and India in the 60’s and early 70’s. He tells me that in the “old days†travel expenses were at least as much as the safari, and travel was a luxury item. It was not a case of spending $1,500 on airfare and $10,000 on the safari like it is today. How many of your Dads and Granddads took off for a month from work in one stretch? Darn few I’ll bet. There was no such thing as a 7 or 10 day buffalo hunt where you were in the bush, rifle in hand, 36 hours after you left your house.

Unfortunate as it is, it seems to me that things are just getting back to normal. I’m one of those already pining about the good ol’ days of the late 1990’s.

Prices are higher. So are wages, so are the prices for a car or a college education. My vacation rent house is up to $6000 per week on the beach now versus $4000 per week 5 years ago.

Go if you can afford to - I doubt things will get cheaper.

I have always regretted the "best deal" and did not mind paying a little extra to be sure I got what I was paying for. Same goes in this business of safari-ing.

If you are paying a lot, expect a lot - these guys will usually deliver. Do not expect world class treatment at Mexico prices.

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Go if you can afford to - I doubt things will get cheaper.

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I just got the latest brochure from the booking agent, and the lion/buffelow hunt that I booked last year for Zambia before the 2004 show season and went on in Sept, increased by $12,000

(edit) Lion/Buffalo/Plainsgame Hunt:
- 21 Days; $37,800
- $1000 D/P, TF for lion & buffalo $5500

That's all supply-and-demand...and reflects that they have been 10/10 on lion. There's no way I could ever afford [justify] this hunt now. Wait till I tell my dear wife that I saved us $12K!

I agree, prices keep going up, hunt now if you can. I can only imagine what they'll be like in another ~25-years when I'm Will's age.

I HAVE ALWAYS WONDERED HOW THE $2000.00 PER DAY IS ALLOCATED. WHAT PERCENTAGE GOES TO THE GOVERNMENT FOR THE CONCESSION LEASE, TO THE PH, TRACKERS, SKINNERS, CAMP STAFF, CAMP AND EQUIPMENT UPKEEP ETC. CAN ANYONE, WHO IS ACTUALLY IN THE BUSINESS, SHED SOME LIGHT ON THIS?

DETCORD,

Please stop typing in CAPITAL LETTERS, it is the equivalent to SHOUTING. Not getting on your case, just passing along some internet etiquette.

Regards,

Terry

SORRY ABOUT THE CAP'S, BUT MY COMPUTER WILL NOT SHIFT TO LOWER CASE. I HAVE TRIED EVERYTHING, AND IT IS "STUCK" I WILL STOP POSTING.

No need to stop posting. Might I suggest buying a new keyboard? They are relatively inexpensive or maybe you can contact the manufacturer of your computer to see if they have another suggestion.

Regards,

Terry

Thank You for the clarification. It is the trend world over as I suspected. Regardless of prices I will hunt when I can, but I would guess that sooner or later it will slow down..

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Originally posted by Ganyana:
Rope Will Prices drop again? No. Christmas 2003 I cashed US$200 (then Zim 110,000) to travel home, Buy presents and treat the fiance. Christmas 2004 cost me US$2k (Zim 1.4 million)and I din't have to buy Gold earings for a weding (we are now married whats wrong with the bottle of bubble bath?).

Our cost of living in US $ terms has jumped at least 8 fold in the last 18 months, and much the same actually applies to Africa north of the Limpopo. When Zim Sneezes, Central Africa catches cold. Actual food prices in Moz and Zambia have been pushed up 10x by the situation in Zim and it ain't going to improve.

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Originally posted by Ganyana:
and I din't have to buy Gold earings for a weding (we are now married whats wrong with the bottle of bubble bath?).

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Ganyana

Give it a few years and the gold earings will be back in line again.

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With US$2000 per day safari rates and many outfitters still expect you to pay exhorbitant "tips" to their staff (ie read "tips" as 'cash wages').

I can't wait to see the next thread bragging about how much you guys tip the PHs and staff with daily cash stipends.

Hey the DIY safari route is looking more and more attractive every day!

Erik,

My post was a little tongue in cheek, but Dogcat had it right when he said it's never a good idea to buy the cheapest deal.....as it never works out that way.

Generally:-

The costs of setting up a safari differ from country to country and area to area, but believe me it's only the very biggest names in the industry that make serious money.....the rest of us earn a living and have a lot of fun along the way and that's it.

PH's only get paid when they work (most don't even get paid travelling time)and few earn more than US$100 per day (no matter where you hunt in Africa) and sometimes by the time insurances and all other expenses are paid outfitters don't earn a hell of a lot more than that. Some agents can expect to be paid outragously - I recently has one suggest I pay him 20% of the hunt cost! (needless to say, I refused) so that also will have an effect on total cost.

Ask yourself how much you pay a garage per hour to service your car and then you'll realise how good a deal you're getting when you book a safari.

As Dogcat also say's.....it ain't gonna get any cheaper.

.......But as I said, it's still the best investment most people will ever make.

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Originally posted by shakari:

.......But as I said, it's still the best investment most people will ever make.

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Even I don't try to convince myself of that one. Let's agree to call it the best money most people will ever spend.

Detcord

All you need to do is go out and get another keyboard and software that is packaged with it so that the computer will recognize it.

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Originally posted by DETCORD:
I HAVE ALWAYS WONDERED HOW THE $2000.00 PER DAY IS ALLOCATED. WHAT PERCENTAGE GOES TO THE GOVERNMENT FOR THE CONCESSION LEASE, TO THE PH, TRACKERS, SKINNERS, CAMP STAFF, CAMP AND EQUIPMENT UPKEEP ETC. CAN ANYONE, WHO IS ACTUALLY IN THE BUSINESS, SHED SOME LIGHT ON THIS?

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I'm not in the business, but here's a breakdown from a booking agents brochure for Tanzania:

- # Days = 21
- 1x1 Rate = $33,600 ($1600/d)
- Wildlife Conservation fees = $2100 ($100/d)
- Hunting License = $600
- Area fees = $2100 ($100/d)
- Trophy Dip & Pack = $2400
- Trophy Fees = Extra ($15000 deposit collected)

- Optional Observer = $5250 rate + $1050 Gov't Fee

I don't think anybody who is "in the business" is going to provide a description of "costs". Local camp staff compensation is insignificant, and includes benefits (meat).

Email me your address and tell me what the cable that plugs into the PC looks like (how many pins and the size) and I'll be happy to send you a keyboard, we have plenty laying around the shop.

WOW!!!! With your figures, Bill, I come up with something over $70,000. I consider myself to be relatively well off, but there is no way I could blow that one past the significant other (LOL). She choked a bit when I told her that our trip to RSA in May would cost a bit over $20,000. No big and dangerous stuff on the agenda.

Bill C,

There's a few charges you've missed out there such as:- rifle import, 10% of trophy fees for Community development fees & charters etc.

Tanzania is notorious for it's plethora of additional charges, so we simply include them all in one price and then simply add on the trophy fees......which are inclusive of the 10% CDF.

I won't waste anyone's time posting all the prices, but they're all on my website.

In 2003 I went on an elk hunt. Shot a very good elk. 245 pounds of meat. $9000 plus transportation. Add $$$ for trophy prep, shipment, taxidermy. One animal.

In 1968, my father suggested we go on a safari in Tanzania (never did, though). He said I'd have to come up with $15,000. US$15,000 in 1968 money is about $40,000 in 1980 money (even more in 1968 money but my inflation tables don't go back that far).