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Gents and ladies, Some camp rifles are junk but of late I think safari operators are upgrading their selection with some high quality firearms. Also you may be hunting with the PH's spare rifle that he may need to save his ass at some point. If I was a PH and a client wanted to use my rifles I'd without a doubt charge him just to let him know that I value the rifle and I don't expect him to abuse it. Not all hunters are rifleman such as you guys who appreciate rifles. Additionally as has been written, in today's climate a safari operator supplying rifles for hire is a necessary service not just a convenience. As long as the operator is up front about costs I don't see there's an issue. As for the airport pick up and drop off that can often kill a full day and in some cases more. You don't think the PH should get paid for that plus fuel? Seriously? When in a work situation did anyone you know of give up a day or two on each end of a work assignment for no pay? Guys these people are in business to make money like all of us. If you don't like what is offered don't book it. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Here in States, we take it for granted that guns are cheap and so is ammo Other places not so including government gun permits and so forth That being said, I can see couple hundred bucks for gun and buying box of ammo My humble opinion, every PH should have extra 375 with decent scope and iron sights on hand for client if needs arrive It is so simple and If I can figure it out, that’s something to say.... " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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OF course I've never been on an over seas hunt. To me, what hunting I've done in the states. I have my own rifles and make up my own ammo because that's what I intend to use when hunting. I wouldn't shoot factory ammo if I had to never fire another shot again. IF my health hadn't taken a dive in '12 I'd of been to OZ for a buff shoot by now. Yes, with my own rifle and ammo made specially for that trip. A friend has invited me several times to join him on a hunt in Africa too. I'm damned near as radical as Saeed about my guns and shells. They're made to fit me, other guys guns don't, or haven't yet. George "Gun Control is NOT about Guns' "It's about Control!!" Join the NRA today!" LM: NRA, DAV, George L. Dwight | |||
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I've got no issue with paying the outfitters time for pick up and delivery to the airport. But when every hunt requires a long transport or when you only have one real international airport (like Windhoek) why not include the transfer costs in the price of the hunt? Marketing wise it seems like a smarter idea. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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+1 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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It would indeed be wise and logical to roll the costs into a single figure but as has been the case in the past, there is no shortage of individuals who demand a breakdown of costs, which leads us back to square one.  | |||
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Guys, Also you have to consider that quite a few people will charter so it's really not fair to them to roll your road transfer cost into the daily rate. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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I think some Outfitters in order to market their hunts, advertise a really low daily rate in order to get clients to sign. They then charge for all the "extras" that are really required in order to complete the hunt. I prefer individuals that offer a set daily rate, and then include everything but hotel stays before and after the hunt, shipping and dipping of trophies, (and of course tips). At $1000.00 - $1800.00 USD a day for 10 days, you should expect a few perks thrown in. JMO BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
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Not bitching at all. I have always taken my rifle. As soon as I see road transfers and rifle charges I move onto considering other outfitters. | |||
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I think everyone should consider the cost of guns & ammo is not the same as it is here. If an outfitter purchases an expensive piece of equipment for use by some clients but not others, why shouldn't those using that piece if equipment pay more? It seems perfectly reasonable to me. I hate shooting someone else's guns. I have done it on extremely rare occasion. | |||
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Larry if the rental fee is $50 per day, advertised price I recently say for two outfitters as I scanned their page, and the hunt is 10 days you are willing to pay $500 for a rental fee? ZERO chance I would do that. I can understand maybe $10 or $20 a day but $50 is a joke! | |||
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As I said earlier, I hate using someone else's guns. I have done it on rare occasion. I might pay that much. It depends on many factors. For example, kind of rifle it was as well as the condition. How much time do I need, if any, getting the permit before I leave? How much time spent clearing my own gun in country both coming and going? How much grief returning to the US? What kind of cost is there in the country I would be travelling to for to for my hunt? I was just in Argentina for a duck hunt. It took days to get all of the paper work done in advance. In addition there were costs incurred BEFORE I ever left the US just to get the permit. I have to go through all of the BS with the airlines and TSA BEFORE I left. Once I got there, there is a tax they charge which I think is about $125 per gun. I can't remember. It costs $300 to have a responsible person to be responsible for the gun. I have to go through the inspection with RENAR which takes time and is stressful. The same thing upon return. Would I pay $500 to avoid this? Hell yes! I spent far more to use my own gun. | |||
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In talking to Doug Duckworth about the cost of ammo in Zimbabwe, he told me a single round of 30/06 is about $8.00, his 505 Gibbs about $35.00 for each pull of the trigger. We left an entire box of 30/06 ammo in camp and I think that was one of the things they were happiest to get. | |||
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I understand the costs and hassle. I would prefer to shoot my own rifle/shotgun as well. But at the same time if I have to pay $500 to rent one I will simply find another outfitter who doesn't charge it or charges less. Just a personal preference. | |||
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We have seen a lot of talk on ammo costs, but I don't believe anyone has posted what a rifle costs in say South Africa or Namibia. Maybe I missed it? I suspect some of the more obscure places are even more than those two countries but I would like to hear a cost of a certain make and model just out of curiosity. Everyone just keeps saying it is really expensive. Can anyone enlighten me on say like a Winchester Model 70 or other run of the mill type of rifle that could be readily available in both places? | |||
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Good question Mike I’d say at least twice as much as here or more on top of their government permits All I gotta say every time I get back state side “ God BLess America “ Most people have no idea how good we have it here " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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a quick look on internet: https://www.safarioutdoor.co.z...=Calibre-416%20RIGBY that give you some idea for RSa. | |||
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And some countries require a paid license to own a firearm too. | |||
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yes we pay for that in Canada every 5 years ... | |||
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Individual firearm license renewals in TZ are on an annual basis - did mine yesterday. Italy once every 5 years. | |||
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Having problems with the Queen's English up in Canada are we? "I'll quit" is future tense... USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Rifles are not necessarily that expensive in South Africa (still much more than the US), but they come with a lot of hassle in terms of licence application, etc. Ammo can be expensive though. Technically the rifle owner needs to be present when the rifle is borrowed, so this falls to the PH and not the outfitter. In this case the PH is encouraged to lend his rifle and then uses the rent to buy ammo and maybe a scope at the end of the season. He may own a beat-up rifle, but one thing for sure is that lending your firearm to multiple users increases the scratches and dings immensely! | |||
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I have used a camp rifle on several hunts. Doesn't bother to me and I don't care what the cost is. The operator is entitled to it. I check ahead of time to make sure it's not a piece of junk. I usually got a 7x64 Sako with a big 4X12 European scope. I felt like a real German. The last few times I have taken my own rifle. IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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Those "fun shoots" can get out of hand and heck, I know how much big bore ammo costs here and could well imagine tge cost and hassle of getting a seasons worth of ammo in places like Zim, Tanz, Moz or Zambia. | |||
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The proble is that it can't be guaranteed that someone will be driving in the day of your arrival. | |||
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I think outfitters should be paid for use of equipment unless it is of minimal quality. Rifles should be rented by level of quality and duty. I'm surprised that no African outfitters (or others) do that. At least I haven't seen any. Maybe others have. Choice matters? 1. Plains game light - Savage 11 or Ruger American bolt action fee. $15/day 2. Thick-skinned game - .375 H$H Sako 85 or CZ550. $20/day 3. Dangerous game bolt .404 Jeffery or larger caliber - $30/day. 4. Dangerous game SxS - .404 Jeffery or larger - $40/day. 5. Premium nostalgia - Original vintage Rigby, Verney-Carron premium double, etc $100/day. Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can. | |||
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By the time you have a rifle and ammo into cameroon you have paid the value twice in fees etc. On top of that comes all the hassles you have, which are even worse then spending the money. I have rented rifles on many occasions. I was often suprised how bad people treat the rifles (and other equipment). Scopes get destroyed, stocks get scratched. Rifles and other equipment I give to people end up getting damaged and often much more then it's necessary. I have never charged for a rifle, but it is certainly fair to do so if the price is not too high. | |||
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Why? Transparency frightens you? You think you aren’t paying for these services anyway? Would you rather they be hidden in the day rate? An outfitter who doesn’t make money can not provide good services. If he doesn’t charge you here, he has to skimp here. It’s simple business 101. If there is one thing I have learned in this business, it’s that sometimes the most expensive hunts can be the cheap ones. | |||
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I don't want to go with someone who is not profitable. Complaining about gun rentals. Complaining about transfer charges. Did I miss one? | |||
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Observer rate charges ___________________________________________________________________________________ Give me the simple life; an AK-47, a good guard dog and a nymphomaniac who owns a liquor store. | |||
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Yup. I knew there was another. | |||
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Yes you did. Let’s complain about add on charge for booze!  Some folks would complain if you hung em with new rope. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Most outfitters other than those with abnormally high rates charge for booze. I've been in the business long enough to have experienced the habits of some clients (not few either) who are very capable of sinking an entire bottle of the hard stuff during the course of the evening (every evening). If you have a group of hard-hitters in camp you can easily be looking at several bottles going down the hatch and 21 days down the road it isn't funny anymore. There is moderation and there is exaggeration.  I knew of one outfitter who charged for bottled water - when I told him he was overboard his answer was: "its free if you drink it but not if you are going to brush your teeth and attend to toiletries with it". I guess he had a point. | |||
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So by asking the thoughts of you guys I am complaining? I appreciate your comments they make me think about things. Some comments I agree with others I don’t but nice to hear others perspectives. I don’t expect anyone to break even or not be profitable. I paid a road transfer fee on my last trip and felt it was highway robbery for the cost. I don’t have a problem paying it. I have a problem paying a sky high amount that I don’t most of you would be happy with either. I don’t mind paying a small rifle fee but I think $50 a day is way to much. You think $500 for 10 hunting days is reasonable? I don’t. | |||
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No you are not. And I am glad you have asked it. It has been sore point with me since I heard some charge $250 per day for rental! That is just plain daytime robbery. On the other hand we have those who wish to have things offered to them for free. No matter what it is, rifle, booze, transport etc. When one goes to a restaurant one pays extra for drinks. When one takes a taxi from A to B he pays a fair. And as with any human activity, the larger the number of participants the larger the chance of finding the undesirables among us. And using the same formula, I can see why there are a larger number of crooked clients than crooked pros providing services for them. | |||
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Some of my Outfitters charge for rifle rental and ammo. Some of those are $50 per day for small caliber and $75 per day for .375 caliber. My top movers and shakers charge $0 for rifle and $0 for ammo. Those PH's generally get tipped well. I've used camp rifles before and fortunately they were decent models but the scopes were average. They do get beat to hell by many users, so taking that into consideration, I see why some charge, but myself, I wouldn't pay $50 per day. I usually take my own and will again. Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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Has anyone given any thought at the costs involved in giving a rifle (wooden stock) a facelift after a couple of seasons' worth of mishandling by clients? Rest assured that not all clients treat the camp rifle with the same respect they would their own and getting the dents, burrs and gouges out of a piece of walnut are not the easiest and cheapest items of maintenance on the gun market. Therefore, depending on the value of the "camp rifle" which may not just be the "village bike", the rental fee may have its price variations though $50/day does seem rather steep unless ammo (within reason) is thrown into the bargain (excluding DRs). A maximum 5 rounds for confirming accuracy (common bolt action calibers) should be considered free - the rest be paid for at the local market price. On occasion I have invited clients to bang the odd buffalo with my .500 FOC. Others have used my .300 (a lowly Rem-700) for the duration of their hunt FOC (just replace ammo used). | |||
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The more countries you travel to, the more you will appreciate outfitters who have high-quality rifles and shotguns for rent. Getting firearms into certain countries, like Cameroon, mentioned before, are next to impossible and very expensive. I don't mind paying the cost to rent rifles and pay for ammo used. mjines and I paid close to $2000 to finally get our guns to us in Cameroon... after I had killed my bongo with the outfitter's Blaser .416. I'll never make that mistake again. The silver lining. The outfitter paid me $200 per box for my unused .458 Lott ammo. Never say never. We all want to hunt with our own guns but shouldn't get too single-minded regarding same. The world, she is changing... Just got back from hunting musk ox and caribou in Greenland and used the outfitter's rifle , a Mauser MO3 in 7x64 topped with a Zeiss 3x12. Shot my caribou at 365 yards... great rig and made traveling easy! On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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