I've been following the SCI summary threads and I am a bit disconcerted/taking it seriously that reputable hunting companies have a bad taste in their mouth with regard to the SCI International show. I'm starting this thread for EXHIBITORS to list grievances or things we need to work on as well as recommendations for SCI. I am not "the man", but I will do what I can to see that your feedback makes it up the chain. I am very involved in my SCI chapter as a board member and as the hunt co-ordinator for our Alaska fundraiser. I take this seriously and would like SCI to put its best foot forward. Thank you for your replies in advance.

Brett

For mine...

* Stop Chapters soliciting at the show
* Make a serious effort to stop the other assorted carpetbaggers walking the show floor
* Review, greater fairness and scrutiny in booth sharing arrangements
* Review those stupid, incessant PA announcements - NOBODY likes them!!
* Greater discount for the 'Classic' show passes.
* Create a 'Vendor Etiquette' handout or something ... (I know a lot of this stuff is in the rules AND mainly common sense but I doubt many vendors read the rules....or have common sense! Some of the things I see vendors doing never cease to amaze me, including practically dragging clients out of other vendors booths).

Thanks for the feedback Matt!

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
For mine...

* Stop Chapters soliciting at the show
* Make a serious effort to stop the other assorted carpetbaggers walking the show floor
* Review, greater fairness and scrutiny in booth sharing arrangements
* Review those stupid, incessant PA announcements - NOBODY likes them!!
* Greater discount for the 'Classic' show passes.
* Create a 'Vendor Etiquette' handout or something ... (I know a lot of this stuff is in the rules AND mainly common sense but I doubt many vendors read the rules....or have common sense! Some of the things I see vendors doing never cease to amaze me, including practically dragging clients out of other vendors booths).

Hi Matt!


With regard to chapters soliciting at the show:

Would you be all right with chapters contacting outfitters they have established relationships with? Are you more referring to "cold calls"? Or are you referring to all of the above? Thanks.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by BrettAKSCI:
Thanks for the feedback Matt!

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
For mine...

* Stop Chapters soliciting at the show
* Make a serious effort to stop the other assorted carpetbaggers walking the show floor
* Review, greater fairness and scrutiny in booth sharing arrangements
* Review those stupid, incessant PA announcements - NOBODY likes them!!
* Greater discount for the 'Classic' show passes.
* Create a 'Vendor Etiquette' handout or something ... (I know a lot of this stuff is in the rules AND mainly common sense but I doubt many vendors read the rules....or have common sense! Some of the things I see vendors doing never cease to amaze me, including practically dragging clients out of other vendors booths).

Hi Matt!


With regard to chapters soliciting at the show:

Would you be all right with chapters contacting outfitters they have established relationships with? Are you more referring to "cold calls"? Or are you referring to all of the above? Thanks.

Brett

Principally cold calls mate. It's actually not as bad as it used to be. I do donate to some chapters and have done at the show - but when the show is busy and chapters come knocking for donations its a wonder they dont get a boot up the arse IMO. Same goes with the booking agents/outfitters/guides walking the aisles. So many hunts and even merchandise are trading in the show aisles while us poor saps subsidise their activities.

The worst chapter abuse I have seen was a husband and wife who didnt identify themselves at first but sat down with me for about 15 minutes and discussed buffalo hunting... then they hit me up for a buffalo hunt donation for their chapter fundraiser!! I got rid of them pretty fast!

Thank you again for your perspective and thoughtful replies!

Brett

Brett - My friend, simply don't waste your time! SCI will NOT do anything to rectify any problems had by exhibitors, period.

At SCI 2012 in Vegas - our booth (Danny McCallum Safaris) was immediately next to Johan Calitz's booth. Both long time exhibitors, and substantial donators over the years - wouldn't you say.

We were placed right next to the live auction room, and it was VERY LOUD - to say the least. Complaints were made, numerous SCI officials came to both booths - including the SCI president. Both Johan & Danny were promised (numerous times) on the spot - compensation for the 2013 convention. I know for a fact, because I was helping Danny with it at the booth.

Over the next few months Johan's group and us too, emailed SCI, emailed eachother, etc, etc - all for nothing! It was simply lip service given to TWO long-time exhibitors, and respected members, who both have made substantial donations over the years - simply to shut them up for the time being!

Promises were made, I can attest to that myself. Were any of those promises upheld - NOPE!!!!!!! So I suggest saving your time/breath, JMO.

As for slow attendance, slow sales, etc. Reno is a BAD location, IMO. Secondly, as long as we have a socialist group running the country, money will be hard to come by. Again, JMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
For mine...

* Stop Chapters soliciting at the show
* Make a serious effort to stop the other assorted carpetbaggers walking the show floor
* Review, greater fairness and scrutiny in booth sharing arrangements
* Review those stupid, incessant PA announcements - NOBODY likes them!!
* Greater discount for the 'Classic' show passes.
* Create a 'Vendor Etiquette' handout or something ... (I know a lot of this stuff is in the rules AND mainly common sense but I doubt many vendors read the rules....or have common sense! Some of the things I see vendors doing never cease to amaze me, including practically dragging clients out of other vendors booths).

I agree wholeheartedly with at least 2 of your points:
1) We had several people come sit in the booth actually pretending they wanted to book a safari hunt. After 30 mins talking & handing out expensive brochures, it turned out they were only interested in trying to sell US something!!!! They had zero intention of booking anything. After finding out their true intention, we were still very courteous to them... but it is B.S. They should purchase & sit in a booth like everyone else. Yep, lots of "Carpetbaggers".
2) YES. The guy talking on the loud speaker was quite annoying & distracting!!
Other than that, the show was good.

I agree don't spend usless time with the exhibitors, if I don't want to hunt with them I just walk away even when they are holding onto my arm giving a longer sales pitch. Sellers can be just as bad as buyers.

I find the smallest chapter in Michigan, the SCI lakeshore chapter my favourite chapter.
1. The President and most of the commitee come and greet me personnaly and thank me for my donation. Sometimes they give the outfitters a small bag of goodies ,knives etc ( not important but makes you feel welcome)
2. They have a hospitality suit and a small bar tab for the outfitters ( other shows also do this )
3. they put us up for the night at the venue.

-Bigger chapters want $ 80 / day just to plug in your laptop.
-Force the outfitters who are donating hunts to still buy chapter membership on top of National.
- Dont know who the chairman or anybody is and you constantly walking around to find out whats going on and who you can talk to
- you get the feeling that you dont matter and neither does your $ 9-10 000 donated hunt.

But thats why we coming back to Alaska this year Brett ~ cos this is a great friendly chapter.
looking forward to finally meeting you.

Matt hit some of the points on the head, others are:

* Screen donations as they are overpriced just to get ' priority points'
* Cheaper beers $ 7 is a rip off I can buy a case in Bulawayo for $ 7!
* Better food with more reasonable prices.
* Freeman is a rip off!

Maybe take a feather out of DSC's cap!!

Cheers

Mart

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:
I find the smallest chapter in Michigan, the SCI lakeshore chapter my favourite chapter.
1. The President and most of the commitee come and greet me personnaly and thank me for my donation. Sometimes they give the outfitters a small bag of goodies ,knives etc ( not important but makes you feel welcome)
2. They have a hospitality suit and a small bar tab for the outfitters ( other shows also do this )
3. they put us up for the night at the venue.

-Bigger chapters want $ 80 / day just to plug in your laptop.
-Force the outfitters who are donating hunts to still buy chapter membership on top of National.
- Dont know who the chairman or anybody is and you constantly walking around to find out whats going on and who you can talk to
- you get the feeling that you dont matter and neither does your $ 9-10 000 donated hunt.

But thats why we coming back to Alaska this year Brett ~ cos this is a great friendly chapter.
looking forward to finally meeting you.

Thank you Dave! Look forward to meeting you as well!

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
don't waste your time

Brett
I was hunt Co-chair on my board (AZ chapter) for almost 4yrs. But I finally hit my wall with SCI and working my tail off for them when everything said or done fell on deaf ears across town at National.
I finally got sick of it and I stepped down just this past November.
They do not give a rat's ass what the local chapters say/do... so long as that 30% comes in.
What's sad is that being on the local BOD was alot of fun and a good bunch of guys, but National always had a way of ruining that.

I'm a life member of SCI, but I will not work my ass for them (for free) again. No return in it.

Good luck but don't get your hopes up. I know, I've tried.

Not an exhibitor at SCI but high food prices and getting high charges from Freeman is common at all shows.

BigB

quote:

Originally posted by BigB:
Not an exhibitor at SCI but high food prices and getting high charges from Freeman is common at all shows.

BigB

Can we please leave this thread just for the exhibitors?

Martin I agree 100% on FREEMAN!!! $200 TO RENT a CARPET! FOR ONE BOOTH.

1) Worst show I have ever been to
2) Donations should be limited.
3)All auctions for the donations should be held the day before the show starts,as they draw everyone off the floor to go to these stupid and forced donations!!!
4)Food is crap and overpriced at the show
4b) Drinks way overpriced
5)Reno a dump, Vegas,New Orleans or Atlantic city would be better
6)Agree with Matt, We don't need the PA announcements
7)Internet for the exhibitors should be free,does not cost that much to set it up,considering all the money they get from the booths and forced ( again, unfair donations )......
Guess you know how I feel....

Peter you are 100% on the donations, the hunter that bought our hunt did not even come by my booth before the Auction to discuss the hunt or open dates, just bought it becuase it was cheap! And then they want prime dates.

Well, excuse me!

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Well, excuse me!

I honestly don't see why you have to post anything on this thread.

I thought it was supposed to be feedback from exhibitors.

So, again, can we leave this thread for them?

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:
I find the smallest chapter in Michigan, the SCI lakeshore chapter my favourite chapter.
1. The President and most of the commitee come and greet me personnaly and thank me for my donation. Sometimes they give the outfitters a small bag of goodies ,knives etc ( not important but makes you feel welcome)
2. They have a hospitality suit and a small bar tab for the outfitters ( other shows also do this )
3. they put us up for the night at the venue.

-Bigger chapters want $ 80 / day just to plug in your laptop.
-Force the outfitters who are donating hunts to still buy chapter membership on top of National.
- Dont know who the chairman or anybody is and you constantly walking around to find out whats going on and who you can talk to
- you get the feeling that you dont matter and neither does your $ 9-10 000 donated hunt.

But thats why we coming back to Alaska this year Brett ~ cos this is a great friendly chapter.
looking forward to finally meeting you.

That's all cool but what does this have to do with the SCI convention?

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Barnard:
1) Worst show I have ever been to
2) Donations should be limited.
3)All auctions for the donations should be held the day before the show starts,as they draw everyone off the floor to go to these stupid and forced donations!!!
4)Food is crap and overpriced at the show
4b) Drinks way overpriced
5)Reno a dump, Vegas,New Orleans or Atlantic city would be better
6)Agree with Matt, We don't need the PA announcements
7)Internet for the exhibitors should be free,does not cost that much to set it up,considering all the money they get from the booths and forced ( again, unfair donations )......
Guess you know how I feel....

If all the auctions were held the day before there would be nobody there to bid on them, except poor outfitters.

Good idea about the Internet - that would be great but Im not sure how they would work it with so many people. Perhaps they should just put on free wifi for everybody inside. Would need to have some serious bandwidth through as it would get jammed pretty fast.

Comments on the food and drink - yes it is expensive but I just expect that kind of pricing at any such event. I dont eat lunch at the convention anyhow - just bring a snack with me.

My first SCI Show was in 1980, back when CJ ran SCI. I know that he was not very popular but the way he ran it had it's merits.

In those days it was a show that focused on outfitters. If you donated a hunt you were given complimentary rooms, a special meeting room, free show tickets etc etc. He also limited the number of handbag, Jewelry people, etc. Today you can buy anything from Fried Chicken to Rolex watches at SCI, and the Outfitters who are the main attraction at SCI are slowly getting pushed toward the Lemonade Stands and the Bathrooms.

I really think it is about time that SCI realised that the Convention is a way of Hunters getting together with Outfitters. Sure we all understand that we need some of the extras that the show has to offer, but if you look carefully all the large stands are owned by Artists, Jewellry Manufactureres, Clothing, Furers and Handbag Manufactures. I am willing to bet that if all the Outfitters pulled out there would be no show. The points rating system needs an overhaul and Outfitters need a little consideration. Some small Alaskan Bear Guide or a Zimbabwean Plainsgame Operator cannot come up with the funds to give Donations on the scale that the Art Galleries can, yet take away those people and no one would come to SCI just to buy Art.

It seems that more and more threads such as this one are popping up, a sign of discord among the ranks.

Excellent post Russ and very true!!!

I think they could easily leave the Points system 'as is' but designate certain areas or halls for the peripheral items - allowing more safari outfitters to take premium places.

Viewers can see the ranking list here...
http://www.showsci.org/docs/co...0Point%20Listing.pdf

Brett AKSCI

Great thread and while at I commend you that at least you will try and get this across to the hierarchy in SCI. How successful you will be in been persuading them to change anything remains to be seen BUT at least you are trying. From our side the followings

1/ FREEMANS is a TOTAL rip off. $150/day for a small plastic chair etc,
2/Exorbitant prices for internet
3/Way TOO many auctions which not only dilutes the prices on the actual auction but takes away potential clients from us. Several people that i know ONLY came for the auction and had NO intention of buying hunts on the floor.
4/ Screening process and a criteria for those that donate hunts. Arnold Payne is an embarrassment to not only Zim but to SCI as a whole. South Africans donating hunts in Zim in areas that are not even theirs. We all know that these will be disasters.
5/ Make exhibitors feel welcome. They are SCIs backbone after all. Despite donating 2 good hunts we never even got so much of a thank you or a free drink. Huge difference between SCI and DSC in this point. At DSC we had complimentary breakfast every day, a few dinners and had the organizers come by drop off snacks and personally thank us.
6/Stick to Vegas- it all round easier to get into, bigger show and offers non hunters something to do!
7/Food pretty gross and over priced
8/ More clarity on what exactly all the money generated by SCI is used on.
9/ Free beers or exhibitors would be welcomed!!!!

Having pointed out the above it is also I think important to state the following

1/ I think we as a whole we still believe in SCI and know that is important to our future. It just needs some redefining and restructuring so as to get back its credibility which has taken a severe knock of late as the posts above have indicated.
2/ The SCI show was run efficiently in that everything was on time , buses were efficient etc- credit is due to the organizers for that.


Cheers Buzz

Saeed, I apologize for posted on this as a non-exhibitor. However, I can speak for my good friends who did exhibit, but no longer will at SCI:
-Echo all the above from the exhibitors.
-The local chapter of SCI does all or a lot of the things people have mentioned "big" SCI is lacking, but is at a disadvantage due to locale and timing. Todd Williams is an officer/board member/stand-up guy with the local chapter and I think that speaks volumes.
-DSC booking for them has been great, plus repeat business.
-Caveats: I live less than five miles from the current and former DSC sites, plus I've never been to the "big" SCI.
This may sound stupid, but look at what happened with the Eastern Sportsman Show, or whatever it was called, when exhibitors disagreed with the policies. Granted, that was political. What if the big groups (PH assns., etc.) got together and wrote to SCI asking for changes? When in numbers, it seems to give more credence to the DSC endorsement of the definition of a mature lion.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
Saeed, I apologize for posted on this as a non-exhibitor. However, I can speak for my good friends who did exhibit, but no longer will at SCI:
-Echo all the above from the exhibitors.
-The local chapter of SCI does all or a lot of the things people have mentioned "big" SCI is lacking, but is at a disadvantage due to locale and timing. Todd Williams is an officer/board member/stand-up guy with the local chapter and I think that speaks volumes.
-DSC booking for them has been great, plus repeat business.
-Caveats: I live less than five miles from the current and former DSC sites, plus I've never been to the "big" SCI.
This may sound stupid, but look at what happened with the Eastern Sportsman Show, or whatever it was called, when exhibitors disagreed with the policies. Granted, that was political. What if the big groups (PH assns., etc.) got together and wrote to SCI asking for changes? When in numbers, it seems to give more credence to the DSC endorsement of the definition of a mature lion.

If you are going to post something on behalf of your friends, please name them, otherwise your post become irrelevant.

It's irrelevant if he hasn't even been to the SCI show. I dont see what this has to do with DSC anyhow.

I doubt there are more than a couple of outfitters who actually had their own booth at SCI but now only go to DSC instead.

Marina Lamprecht is one now of course... although Jofie was at the SCI show in an agents booth.

Russ / Buzz , correct on every point, it also amuses me that this is the first time I have confirmed and paid my DSC booth fee for 2014 and I have not yet done it for SCI, usually the other way around, may even miss SCI altogether next year !!

Mart

Ok slaughter me but here is my opinion

1. THE Points and ranking system is bullshit

I have been ehibiting a couple of years now, this was my 7th or 8th Our ranking and points are higher than at least 3 or 4 outfitters that I know, at the show that were placed in the Main Hall, and guys we all know which is the main hall now dont we

went to sci to discuss what should I now do, seeing as the merits dont work, could not get a answer from Angie, or Karen was told Mike Wirth would come and see me and discuss, I went in every morning to find out from the girls, no luck and GUESS WHAT no Mike either

So I drove down from Reno to Tucson, after phoning and being told Mike would be in the office wednesday, so there I was NO MIKE, and he could not be reached either !!!!!!!!!!! we're living in the goddamn 21 century and it is the USA does he not have a cellphone

So gave them,my mobile number, oh he will call me when he comes in, GUESSS WHAT ??


2. The whole ripoff with Freeman, re tables carpets shite that I buy and leave at show for cheaper than I can rent ?? there is soemthing wrong then

3. Carpetbaggers, briefcase salesmen call them what you want, I am most propably the smallest outfit there, it costs us a fortune, and they walk the aisles, bars everywhere ??? thats bullshite

4. Attendance records, what a frigging joke, I counted sheep as a youngster, and do the same with show goers, there was not 7000 people going past us where we were, just before the frigging thrashcans

5. Small things, internet, breakfast, etc, guys SCI is all about the money, the goals of the founders have been lost,

Question , I have been informed by one of my clients, when you resign out of sci, all your regeistered trophies gets deleted, when you die, your trophies gets deleted ?? can someone verify this as false or true for me

quote:

Originally posted by Kwan:
Ok slaughter me but here is my opinion

1. THE Points and ranking system is bullshit

I have been ehibiting a couple of years now, this was my 7th or 8th Our ranking and points are higher than at least 3 or 4 outfitters that I know, at the show that were placed in the Main Hall, and guys we all know which is the main hall now dont we

If you are talking about the centre hall then I think I may have the answer to this. I dropped off one of my booths, that I didnt need, very late in the game and that action gave a small company a free ride to the centre hall. That does not mean they will ever have that opportunity again. If I did this then there is no reason to think that other companies didnt do it - and this may explain why it looked like that?

The points system is fair (except the inflated auction values) - no vendor placed lower than you can CHOOSE a booth space in front of you. When you do your booth placement - I assume you are looking at the 'real time' image of who has already selected their booths? It is very easy to check if it is all kosher.

quote:

Originally posted by Kwan:

Question , I have been informed by one of my clients, when you resign out of sci, all your regeistered trophies gets deleted, when you die, your trophies gets deleted ?? can someone verify this as false or true for me

No mate - that is bollocks.

Freeman is a ripoff - no question. I buy or own all of my stuff and keep a storage unit in Reno for $650pa. Fuck Freeman... I don't use them for anything...

Great feedback guys! Keep it coming!

Brett

I agree with Buzz 100% on his quote below

quote:

Screening process and a criteria for those that donate hunts. Arnold Payne is an embarrassment to not only Zim but to SCI as a whole. South Africans donating hunts in Zim in areas that are not even theirs. We all know that these will be disasters.

Buzz, Pete, Matt, Kwan and others - Guys look, obviously all of your points/critiques are spot on. As a fellow exhibitor, I totally agree with most all of them. Like others too, I feel like I "must" be at SCI, not that I "want" to be at SCI.

However, I think it would be best suited to getting real action - if a concensus of "important" problems were laid out to Brett/SCI, and see if any headway could be made.

For example, as Buzz mentioned - the vetting process for the auctions/donations is a joke. The auctions/donations are a major part of the show, and can effect the buyers on the floor, etc. This needs to be fixed.

But, complaining about the petty stuff, that's NEVER gonna change, is simply gonna bog down the process and fall on DEAF EARS. Nobody at SCI gives a damn about how much you pay for a beer, what it costs to rent your table (Freeman does DSC too - and they are just as expensive there as well) or whether or not your booth is adjacent to the bathroom, etc, etc. I too have a petty complaint - the guy over the loud speaker/PA system is the most annoying damn thing I have ever heard at a show

IMO, focus on a few of the major issues - and see if someone like Brett can help get somewhere. But if Brett goes to them with a list a mile long of petty issues, NOTHING will ever get done. I for one think a good place to start is the donation/auction hunts?

And yes, I too agree with Kwan - the priority points system is a bit wrong. I get the "point per dollar" thing, but that's the ONLY way an exhibitor gains points. Exhibitors should also get some points for longevity, not just because others can donate bigger dollar items!

Anyway - JMO.

I totally agree Aaron - the auction items and the carpet baggers are the biggest issues - all the other stuff is mostly just fluff.

Good feedback Aaron!

Brett

I am a life member of SCI and have been an exhibitor at the SCI convention since '96. Same problems then, same now. I concur with all stated above however, SCI has a standing waiting list of companies that want to exhibit. As long as the demand for the space exceeds the spaces available nothing will change. Additionally, donations are not mandatory. I stopped donating this year and simply paid the cash contribution (mandatory). The auction hunts are the biggest detractor to my business (SA plains game hunts). These hunts go for peanuts and you cannot blame the buyer for purchasing a hunt on the cheap in lieu of paying full boat. That's just common sense. I can live with the ridiculous fees for table, chairs, carpet, etc. but it is singularly the donation hunts that kill my bookings and I haven't a clue as to how to address that. The 30% kick back from SCI does not come close to covering the expenses incurred for the outfitter when they are selling a 7 day plains game hunt for one hunter and one observer plus 3K in trophy fees for $800.

I believe that SCI should buy the hunts from the outfitter for cost and begin their bidding at that rate. At least we wouldn't lose money on the deal. I cannot think of another alternative.

quote:

Originally posted by Ken Moody:
The auction hunts are the biggest detractor to my business (SA plains game hunts). These hunts go for peanuts and you cannot blame the buyer for purchasing a hunt on the cheap in lieu of paying full boat. That's just common sense. I can live with the ridiculous fees for table, chairs, carpet, etc. but it is singularly the donation hunts that kill my bookings and I haven't a clue as to how to address that. The 30% kick back from SCI does not come close to covering the expenses incurred for the outfitter when they are selling a 7 day plains game hunt for one hunter and one observer plus 3K in trophy fees for $800.

I believe that SCI should buy the hunts from the outfitter for cost and begin their bidding at that rate. At least we wouldn't lose money on the deal. I cannot think of another alternative.

I know you dont mean that ALL donated hunts sell for peanuts... Lots of hunts sell at SCI auctions for close to full price, if not more than full price... reflecting the supply and demand situation for certain items and the desirability of the item too.

Our hunt at SCI usually sells for around 80% of full value - bidders still want to buy it at a discount (or bid on another hunt) - but then we usually have at least four different people bidding on it.

Matt

Please show me one ( and there may be as I did not check them all) hunt on the auctions that sold for 100% of the value. Cheers Buzz

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
Matt

Please show me one ( and there may be as I did not check them all) hunt on the auctions that sold for 100% of the value. Cheers Buzz

I dont know about this event Buzz but I have certainly seen items at the dinners that went for full price... especially the 'celebrity' kind of hunts. Last year there was a deer hunt that went for something like three times the value because a couple wealthy guys wrestled for it and it was just a charitable donation and a bit of fun to them I guess?

I dont really follow the day auctions (except for mine) but I can imagine that some would go very cheaply). I think ours this year went for about 80%. We are always in the day auction because I am always late to get mine in.

I have not heard of African hunts going for 100% or over and comparing a deer hunt to a hunt as may be offered by Buzz for example is cherries to pineapples.