Notsosmarterthananyone,

Your grasp of history (modern and pre-historic times) has the holes in it that you mention.

The Sahara desert is no more man made than the Great Lakes, the Andes or the Caspian. Borders of and other geologic features change with time, but the desert itself has been present at since the arrival of the European on that continent. The societies that developed along the Nile over the past 5000 years, stayed there due to the river (water) and had no impact on the desert. There is no geologic or historical evidence that supports your comment that the Sahara Desert is man made.

As far as the use of "tools" (wheel, irrigation canals), the Mayans and Aztecs had the wheel but never used it. It was used on childrens toys at the time. They irrigated but the cultures moved or died out. THe use of irrigation canals is not a sign of intelligence but of convenience. They moved objects by other means. As this pertains to Africans, you must have heard of the Great Zimbabwe ruins and other "man made" structures in sub-Saharan African. Further, how would rate the Eskimos, the American Indians, the natives of Papua New Guinea, the Indians in South America? They do not use or truly need the "tools" you view as successful human endeavors and they seem to do just fine until influenced by "superior western" culture and toys.

Longevity of life is a not a measure of success either. Let's see, Mozart died at 35 or so, Alexander the Great died at 33, Joan of Arc died young - on and on. You also seem to forget that the plagues of the Middle Ages seemed to put a dent in life span as well. THis was brought about by the "success" of living in close proximity to each other in cities, a problem "under developed" cultures seem to avoid. Certain peoples in the Crimea areas have long life spans without the medical "success" you quote. Same in Japan in the "pre-openness era" starting in the 1850's.

So to quote longevity stats as a suggestion of a "successful" culture does not hold water.

Further, the Chinese had a far greater developed social structure than Western Europe well before the our European relatives moved into houses. The Chinese, for many reasons, chose to close the door and keep developement there rather than spread it. THey were far better equipped to spread the mantra of "success, be like me" to the world than the Europeans, yet did not.

I find your discussion troubling and un-enlightened as you appear to have chosen a worldview through a potentially flawed "looking glass". At least look at other ideas and evidence as I am still stunned that anyone would think that the Sahara Desert was man made.

Dear Smarterhanu:

I assume you have a birth name. Please post it in your next communication, so I can address you properly. I hate these monikers.

I read all your posts on this topic, and it appears that your argument resides around the "success" of the white (Caucasoid) race with its industrial inventions and conquest of the world (if there is such a race by the way, I subscribe only to a human race, but call me idealistic). Although I believe that the British administration, educational and legal influence in its colonies were wildly successful by anyone's standards, attributing a superior intellect or economic ability to any sub-category of homo sapiens is nothing less than Aryan Nazi crap, so pleasingly disproved by the mutts in the American military in WW-II versus the Wehrmacht.

Where does the racial deficiency arise concerning Secretary Rice, General and Secretary Powell, Senator O'Bama, and to really stir the pot, President Mugabe. Although I cannot disagree more with his tactics and his ordered murders, nevertheless, he is black and he is running the show in Zimbabwe.

I'd love to take you to West Philly one night, and see if you could espouse your views there and make it out alive. I'll stand back and laugh.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
I believe the name of the town was Rosewood and the name of the book regarding theoretical differences amongst different people's is called "The Bell Curve." There was also a recent article by a Nobel Laureate who did extensive work in DNA issues, but I can't think of his name. jorge

Dr. Watson from the USA; I can't remember the university lab he is associated with.

quote:

Originally posted by Yale:

I'd love to take you to West Philly one night, and see if you could espouse your views there and make it out alive. I'll stand back and laugh.

Chris Bemis

Chris, that was a good one

Guys, by responding to this guy, you are just playing HIS game. That's what he wants.

Dave

Vinny,

If you want to argue the sky is yellow I guess you can do that. Maybe it will make you feel better to talk trash about everyone else that knows its blue. I don't know where you studied Agronomy but they lied to you if they taught you the Sahara desert isn't man made. Science knows that the desert existed at the time of the Egyptians. News flash! Things actually happened and people existed before recorded history in the Nile valley. Apparently you forgot how to read again because I never argued on behalf of superior intelect over the Mongoloid subspecie. Last there is something you are missing by all your useless examples. Average age of mortality does reflect survival and intellegence. Sure smart people die sometimes. But singular events rarely sway the average of the sub-species. See fourth grade math if you can no longer remember how to calculate an average. And you think Africans have avoided plagues? What do you think AIDS is to pick the most current example. The only plague they have excelled in prevention is Malaria. Which they have fought by developing another genetic illness that limits thier lifespan. The thing you have failed to comprehend is the human species is the only species on earth that has discovered they can increase carrying capacity with invention. Increasing carrying capacity and overall population enriches genetic diversity which strengthens the species and increases survival. If a subspecies of people's technology is lacking by thousands of years of development thier survival probabilities and genetic pool stay slim. That is a key indicator of who is winning the intelegence war.

Yale,

I grew up in a black neighborhood. I've seen and talked to all types. Is a menacing threat of violence in a black neighborhood supposed to convince anyone that they are more than animals? There are better ways to argue a point sir. This isn't Nazi crap either. Anthroplogy doesn't care about politics. Last, stolen money and government jobs doesn't argue intellect. However plenty of negroid individuals succeed in society in non government non-criminal enterprises. But rarely are they on the forefront of human development and invention.

Dear Dave:

Yeah, I know, but its strangely fun, and serious at the same time.

On the serious side, this racial crap always pisses me off.

My mom's family bore the brunt of the ethnic crap here in Pennsylvania, because my maternal grandfather was from Albania, and not Pennsylvania Dutch. My uncle got half wages as a kid during the Depression, because he wasn't of German blood. Strangely, though in high school it was okay that my mother and her two sisters weren't of German descent, but that had nothing to do with the fact that they were the sharpest looking gals in school, and had to literally fight the boys off. Funny how that works out.

Incidently, my maternal grandfather was stuck in a factory job in Pottstown, even though prior to emigrating here in 1912, he was the private tutor to the crown princes of King Zog in Albania, and could speak nine languages. He was the finest teacher I have ever met, although my mom came damn close during her 28 years of teaching learning disabled children.

So, yeah this racial crap burns me up.

I'll even buy Smartherthanu his last meal at Pat's Steaks in south Philly before I drop him off about three blocks west of the University of Pennsylvania.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Yale, I said polar bears were dumb animals and it pissed someone off, should I be put in a cage with polar bears? Your refined idea of debate is astounding. "If I don't like truth we'll just let some thugs kill him in Philly". Is that your logic? Wow! You speek of how much you hate racism but apparently you embrace driving someone to thier brutal homocide. You have a serious problem with your priorities.

Dear Smarterthanu:

No name, huh, not packing much between your legs are you?

I don't care where you grew up, I care what you espouse, and yes, it is Nazi racial crap.

C'mon, I'll even pick you up at Philadelphia International, and buy your last meal at Pat's Steaks.

If you really believe in what you are saying about racial differences, have some balls, and say it where it might have the most impact on the locals in West Philadelphia around 11:00 p. m. on a Saturday night. Of course, you would have to actually have balls to do it.

So, we are back to my assertion, not packing much, right?

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Dear Not Packing Much:

Taking your Nazi racial argument to its logical conclusion, yes, I am following Darwin and helping to remove you from the gene pool. I'd have a drink afterwards.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

You are very scientific Yale. The old not much nuts arguement. Oh yeah that takes a lot of nuts saying someone else in a neighborhood will do your dirty work. I think its really funny you challenge physically someone you don't even know. Let me revise, you will try and set someone up with thier demise that you don't even know. Last I think you need to go study 8th grade government coursebooks and learn what nationalism is if you are going to ignorantly throw around the name "Nazi". If you are all out of intellegent debate I guess I am done with you. I might need to re-think my outlook about the caucasoid sub-species though if you are truly part of it. By the way it ain't that hard to find out who I am. Many on the forum know me and my photo is pasted on it. By the way I have never been to Philly even though I have travelled far and wide. I bet many people there are better people than you make them out to be. If you ever want to fly down to Houston I will gladly by you a steak here, and I won't try and kill you. We can talk about science if you like. You can talk about your testicles if you need too. This is typically a good forum to discuss ideas. I am sure you are not the first to threaten someone in your own unique way here but I find your character to be of little moral fiber.

This string is so funny, those that have hunted in Africa (which this is where this string started - Zim) how can you ever hunt with 90+% ot the PH's. The names they call the trackers and skinners etc are by your standards terrible. One PH in RSA told me the only problem with AIDS is it isn't killing them fast enough.

Dear Not Packing Much:

And your retort disproves my Darwinian argument?

I'm not challenging you at all physically, no need, just providing you with a forum for your racially Naziesque beliefs. You are calling blacks animals and less intelligent. So, back it up. Unfortunately for you, your beliefs would cause you some real trouble in this forum.

So, once again, if you really believe in that Nazi racial crap, I'll provide you with a tough forum. But you need the requisite balls to jump in and sound off. I'm ready to help you.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

I am actually astounded by what you say. Honestly, you are the first I have come across that is driven by untruth and illogic to the extent you are showing. I also must assume that you believe the Holocast did not happen and that Stalin did not murder millions of his own people. Revisionist history and no factual basis for determining one race is superior to another is mystifying. No university in the "successful" west or Europe claims any of the clap trap you believe in. I can think of no way to quote scientific evidence or moral evidence that can convince you that you have a warped view of people and planet Earth.

Arguing racism and racial superiority was concluded many years ago. No facts or scientific evidence proves your point. I can take you to isolated parts of Houston (your hometown) and show you people of your race that are as "primitive" as you claim sub-Saharan Africans are. I can also take you to Rice University and show you sub-Saharan African students that dwarf your intellectual superiority. You have no point and no facts.

I suggest you grow out of your self centered view that your are that much superior to the rest of the world. You are not, nor is anyone else.

By the way, the sky itself is clear, the blue color you see comes from refraction of light waves. Yellow is occasionally seen, again as refraction due to solid dust particles in the atmosphere that refract light waves. However, yellow is not the predominant color.

Yale once again your assumptions show your foolishness. I do not believe black people are animals. I believe any person that wants to innact violence upon someone else over a scientific belief is an animal. I have no desire to control blacks or rid them from the world. Your foolishness grows with your assumptions.

Vinny, I understand light and physics apparently I made a poor example of your rediculous rejections of obvious science. I also think you missed the point I made about individuals to averages. And you are wrong about what Universities teach. Most of the facts I have presented you came from a Western University. Just because you don't like it does not make it truth. I don't like that I can't slam dunk a basketball. That doesn't make it not a fact. Now reach above your head and pull the string. Its just a light switch.

I say we call a truce and move on to more important things.

Dear Not Packing Much:

I promise that this will be my last post on this topic, so you may have the last word.

On November 8, 2007 at 23:17 you wrote the following in the AR Forum: "And none of it means jack shit to justify an arguement (sic) over whether some animals want to victimize white people in Zimbabwe."

Since the lions, tigers and bears are not the animals vicitmizing white people in Zimbabwe, then the only reasonable conclusion drawn from your statement is that you are calling the black people there animals.

Like I said, if you really believe this Nazi racist nonsense then I will take you to a forum where you may espouse it freely at your own peril.

I am not kidding, I am making you this offer in the real world, and am calling your bluff. I will pick you up at Philadelphia International (just give me the flight, date and time of arrival), take you to Pat's Steaks in south Philly, pay for your dinner and transport you to West Philadelphia, provide a crate for you to stand on, and let you declaim to the local population your views on race.

Again, I am calling your bluff, pussy.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

My Bluff! What the hell is my Bluff? Do you even know what that phrase means? And your quote proves what I said. Notice "animals that want to victimize white people". That right there proves I am calling the black people, victimizing people, animals. Are you fully competant and aware of your own dribble. You can't win in debate so you make wild assumptions about people you have never met, call them names that have nothing to do with thier beliefs, oh and when that fails you challenge them with some type of false masculinity. You are out of your league little man and so are your friends who think victimizing someone else will provide them with power and intellegence. Like I said before. You have real problems with priorities, boy.

i still want to know what culture created the Saharan desert(and more strange, why would they create a desert) and where they went. to create sand(quartz silica) out of organic soil is quite an engineering accomplishment and the ancient people who managed this achievement should be given a medal. i never realized the Bedouins( or any of the other North Africans)were capable of such a monumental engineering feat. after all the Saharan Desert extends essentially from the Atlantic Ocean to Egypt. i guess after they got through making the world's largest desert, they got bored and went back to Mars to work on their terraforming project there.

Dear Jdollar:

Having studied Egyptian and Roman history, albeit a long time ago, it appears that the climate changed sufficiently in North Africa beginning at least 2000-2200 years ago, allowing the Sahara Desert to expand mightily. I am not aware of any human cause.

Considering that the North African Roman colonies, including Libya and Egypt were literally the bread basket of the empire, and that the Romans built numerous aquaducts throughout its realm, including in North Africa for irrigation and other reasons, it seems unlikely, that their agrarian abilities or disabilities would have caused their tilled land to become desert. The present day Aswan dam in upper Egypt has in some ways stunted the Nile's flooding, thereby allowing depletion of nutrients from the soil by eliminating the annual innundation of the farmland. But that was only after 1930's when the dam was completed, if memory serves me correctly.

My conclusion, is, it was climactic change that caused the Sahara Desert to expand.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Howdy Jdollar,

Prehistoric peoples of the negroid and mongoliod subspecies developed the saharan dessert through poor agronomic practices and constant over grazing with some of the first domesticated livestock. Mainly goats. These practices in conjunction with severe alternating droughts turned a semi-arid plain into a gigantic dessert. These same practices continue to this day in most areas that fringe the desert and expand its growth annually. We know through research now that most of the saharan desert originally looked much like our own great plains region here in the USA. The beginning started before the Roman and Egyptian empires began. Manufacturing a desert is not strictly an action of weather. Most semi-arid ecosystems are heavily dependant on thier organic surface soil densities and the srtuctured biomass on top of them for security. Removal of either of these will quickly cause desertification to begin. Once desertification begins on a large scale it then itself starts altering the surounding weather trends and patterns. Much like large rainforests also do. It basicly starts a vicious cycle that starts it's expantion and is almost impossible to stop.

I don't think you realize the size or extent of the Sahara Desert. There is no way that anything man could do to create that. If anything man has been trying to reclaim and convert fringe parts of it for cultivation. The issue is rainfall, not goats. I don't get where some people come up with this stuff.

As to the issue of intelligence by races - my experience has been the opposite of Mr. Smart. I have seen remarkable intelligence (my definition is that a person thinks analytically and can adapt/change an environment via invention or use of available material) by blacks, whites, reds, yellows whatever. I would daresay that if any of us enlightened white guys from the US or Europe were dropped off in the Kalahari Desert, that we would not survive a week as we do not have the experience or intelligence to handle that place. Seems the bushman do. I also would say that from what I have seen of bushman in the city, they do quite nicely.

I cannot buy the theory that making wheels or computers or toilet paper is a sign of intelligence. I spent a lot of time in the Soviet Union and found that their toilet paper and pencils were sorely lacking and poorly made, yet they put a man in space before the rest of us. They seem to be pretty advanced to me.

So I would encourage the "civilized" world to not put the sub-Saharan African in a box that is labeled "not so smart" as I believe that he would get out of that box pretty darn quick (and move to Houston next door to "you know who" to help civilize the rest of the unbelieving world)...

Dogcat,

In a matter of one decade your entire state was almost turned into a desert because of poor agronomic practices. It has taken several decades of extensive governmant regulation and farm re-education to repair it. I do know exactly how big the saharan desert is, I don't think you comprehend the power of agronomic practices with no forthought.

About your points of individual achievement they are not the averages. Many white people can and do live in the Kalahari desert. The question is can you take that bushman and turn him loose in Greenland. Whether you like it or no, a German that has built an airconditioned home, with a functioning farm, and a paved road going to it has and is surviving in the Kalahari desert. With intellegence and invention he has extended his capabilities to live in an area he was not geneticly designed to live in. So the question remains. What percentage of bushmen could invent and adapt, through intellegence, to survive in Greenland? By the way I never said that the Soviets weren't advanced.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by Yale:

I'd love to take you to West Philly one night, and see if you could espouse your views there and make it out alive. I'll stand back and laugh.

Chris Bemis

Chris, that was a good one

Guys, by responding to this guy, you are just playing HIS game. That's what he wants.

Dave

Chris:

I did my undergrad at Temple University - I know EXACTLY what you are talking about.

And GOD do I ever miss Pat's! (F- Geno's by the way.)

I am just glad we all agree the best athletes are white

Yo! 577:

Bill Cosby's alma mater, can't knock Temple. My sister went to Penn by the way.

If you ever get up here, send me a PM and I'll take you to the best cheese steak place in town, Delassandro's in Mannyunk. Oh, and they do have a liquor license, and five levels of hot peppers. It edges out Pat's.

There's a nice open park next door, if you have drunk too much. Lots of room to stagger around, and fast cab service back to Philly, since its on Henry Avenue.

My brother in law, one of my sister's and I went to Delassandro's religiously for years. That was when they lived in Ardmore. Now they live in California, so life is not as wonderful and easy as it once was.

So, I need an excuse to go again. Getting the message?

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=9530

The Worldwide Pattern of IQ Scores. East Asians average higher on IQ tests than Whites, both in the U. S. and in Asia, even though IQ tests were developed for use in the Euro-American culture. Around the world, the average IQ for East Asians centers around 106; for Whites, about 100; and for Blacks about 85 in the U.S. and 70 in sub-Saharan Africa.

Yale:

I'll hit you up the next time I'm in town. Might be early December - not 100% sure.

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
Howdy Jdollar,

Prehistoric peoples of the negroid and mongoliod subspecies developed the saharan dessert through poor agronomic practices and constant over grazing with some of the first domesticated livestock. Mainly goats. These practices in conjunction with severe alternating droughts turned a semi-arid plain into a gigantic dessert. These same practices continue to this day in most areas that fringe the desert and expand its growth annually. We know through research now that most of the saharan desert originally looked much like our own great plains region here in the USA. The beginning started before the Roman and Egyptian empires began. Manufacturing a desert is not strictly an action of weather. Most semi-arid ecosystems are heavily dependant on thier organic surface soil densities and the srtuctured biomass on top of them for security. Removal of either of these will quickly cause desertification to begin. Once desertification begins on a large scale it then itself starts altering the surounding weather trends and patterns. Much like large rainforests also do. It basicly starts a vicious cycle that starts it's expantion and is almost impossible to stop.

if you think a herd of goats and intermittent drought created a desert larger than the continental US, more power to you. the number of people necessary to herd that number of goats would exceed the population of all of north Africa in ancient times- HELL, WHY AM I FEEDING THE TROLLS???????????

Jdollar,

Did you read my post about oklahoma and the dust bowl? What do you think the population of Oklahoma was at that time? This was a period of 10 years that did that with virtually now inclusion of goats. Now compound that over 8,000 years. The other problem is you believe prehistoric population figures for the region are the same as they are now, when in fact it was one of the most highly populated regions of the world at that time. Its about how you grow your food and raise your livestock, plus removal of surface biomass through cutting and burning. You're just not seeing the big picture here.

Err... This is a ridiculous thing to respond to, aside from it's just so dang funny... STT, you obviously are in a desperate need of a scientific education... Next thing, it'll be that aliens built the pyramid, 9/11 was a Haliburton conspiracy, probably something about Zionist banker Aliens ruling the world form Zurich, and goodness knows what else...

Ugh...Zionist Banker Aliens don't rule the world????

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
if you think a herd of goats and intermittent drought created a desert larger than the continental US, more power to you. the number of people necessary to herd that number of goats would exceed the population of all of north Africa in ancient times-

At one time the Sahara was much much smaller, and areas now desert had lakes and flowing rivers. Ancient civilisations existed that later were covered with desert and sand.

In more modern times, the Sahara has been extending Southwards due to the regions being more populous. Collecting firewood is a BIG cause of desertication as of course are the many goat herds.

***

Getting back to Zimbabwe, if you drive through some of the communal lands you will see a similar thing occurring. The stripping of the landscape of almost all trees and bushes in some areas to feed cooking fires. As the area around a village is denuded the villagers extend the circle and so on until in some regions there is hardly any living trees/bushes remaining. A long term problem for the environment.

Aglifter,

I hold a college degree in an agriculture science from the largest agriculutre university in the USA. Where do you think I am pulling these facts from?

The Sahara was only fifteen square miles until the eleventh birthday of George W. Bush.

The young Bush made his mother drive a station wagon (kind of like an SUV for those of you under 35) to the store to buy a copy of a Martha and the Vandellas record. An oil company executive ran a red light and hit the Bush vehicle, denting the right front fender and blowing out a tire. The tire was later burned in an illegal dump (conveniently while around the neck or an evil 14 year-old child) and the smoke was the straw that broke the camel's back, filling up the ozone hole (which was caused by back yard cook-outs) and resulting in global warming. This is the inconvenient truth..., but that's just science.

This all goes to show that Al Gore has every right to fly around in a Gulfstream VII, because George Bush and big oil killed the polar bears.

I think "W" was responsible for Mugabe, too... or was that something Jimmy Carter got a Nobel Prize for??? Anyway, remember that no man is an island and if you like Martha and the Vandellas (the ladies, btw, have very big heads under all that sprayed hair and high IQ's, too), you probably helped the war vets get their land... or that's what I learned at my college.

I hope this thread isn't just a set-up by smarterthanthou (not me) for a eventual very bad Aggie joke...

Moniter, let's close this tripe and move on to another thread.

I like your humor Judge G

Actually, we all know that the Sahara was caused by me when I tore the label off of a pillow when I was in first grade.

Damn, those tags:

IT IS UNLAWFUL TO REMOVE THIS LABEL UNDER THE PENALTY OF LAW

I was always afraid I'd somehow tear the thing off in my sleep. Pillows still scare me.

I don't know much about the theories trying to describe the expansion of the Sahara, but I do know that dromedary camels aren't some recent invention. This is directly related to Ernest's fetish for ripping up pillows of course, preferably in motels. I once heard that Greece was covered in forest, until white guys started running the place.

Think about human impact on Madagascar. Then think about the Sahara. Any questions?

Have any of you guys heard of James Lovelock and his Gaia Theory? He believes that by 2100 global warming will cause the temperature in North America and Europe to heat up by fourteen degrees. He also believes that as a result of climate change, by the end of the next century, the earth's population will be culled from the present 6.6 billion to as few as 500 million. The theory is that if you don't take care of the earth, the earth will take car of you. It's pretty interesting stuff.

Dave

Judge,
I agree with you on "cause and affect". This is a bad Aggie joke wrapped in a racist rant.